Scottish nationalism: Petulance, grievance and victimhood


Blackleaf
#1
Here we go again. The rhetoric of Scottish nationalism is one of the most dreary, repetitive and grindingly predictable sounds in British politics.

It is like the broken record of a dull Caledonian folk song, permanently stuck in its groove as it plays the same old dirge, laden with victimhood and hostility to England...

Petulance, grievance, victimhood...and how this cynical bid to smash the Union could bankrupt Scotland


By Leo Mckinstry For The Daily Mail
14 March 2017

Here we go again. The rhetoric of Scottish nationalism is one of the most dreary, repetitive and grindingly predictable sounds in British politics.

It is like the broken record of a dull Caledonian folk song, permanently stuck in its groove as it plays the same old dirge, laden with victimhood and hostility to England.

The Nationalists’ Chief Balladeer, Nicola Sturgeon, is indulging in her favourite routine of demanding another independence referendum.


Bad losers: The stark reality is that Scotland is hopelessly ill-equipped for independence

Oozing her usual mix of petulant grievance and separatist menace, she claimed that — despite the Nationalist case having been rejected just three years ago — a new vote is justified because Brexit has transformed the constitutional landscape of the UK.

The central theme was that London believes Scotland’s voice ‘can be ignored at any time and on any issue’.

If only. Successive British Governments have bent over backwards to appease the Scots, to no avail. Despite devolution, massive subsidies and an independence referendum, the Nationalists refuse to be satisfied.

Disruption


There was also a deep cynicism about Sturgeon’s timing yesterday. For she made her speech on the very day the Commons was set to pass the legislation to trigger Article 50, paving the way for the start of Britain’s EU withdrawal.

Her obvious short-term aim is to cause the maximum possible disruption in the Brexit process, using the threat of separation to blackmail the Government into granting exceptional concessions to Scotland, including the possibility of continued membership of the Single Market.

Her theory is that Theresa May — battling the EU and Remainer elements in her own party — will not want to fight on a third front. But the idea of a separate Single Market deal is clearly unworkable. A unified nation cannot operate with different sets of trading and customs arrangements.

And it is ridiculous of Sturgeon to suggest the referendum could be held as early as autumn 2018, before the end of Brexit negotiations. How can Scots make an informed choice when the details have not even been decided?

Just as cynical is Sturgeon’s abandonment of her own past pledges not to hold another referendum. The vote in 2014, her party stressed, was a ‘once in a generation event’.

Sturgeon herself said: ‘The politicians have to respect the democratic wishes of the people.’ But that is exactly what she is now failing to do.

In her desperation to break with England, she mirrors the stance of the EU oligarchy she worships. As the EU did with regard to constitutional referendums in France and Ireland, she wants to keep asking the same question until she gets the right answer.

There is no sign another referendum will produce a different response. According to one poll yesterday, independence would again be defeated, this time by 52 to 48 per cent.

Nor, contrary to Sturgeon’s shrill propaganda, is there any evidence that the Scots actually want another vote.

A study for the Scottish Herald newspaper showed that 49 per cent reject the idea of a second referendum, while only 39 per cent want one.

But then Sturgeon’s entire stance is riddled with hypocrisies and contradictions.

She portrays the desire of the majority of the British electorate for freedom from the EU as a dark, socially divisive force, calling Brexit ‘a licence for xenophobia’. Yet she paints her own wish to abandon the British Union as progressive and inclusive.

So, in SNP Orwellian double-think, English national pride equals bigotry, whereas Scottish pride equals liberation.

Equally absurd is her demand to stay in the European Single Market — while seeking to leave the British Single Market, which is far more lucrative to Scotland. Such a move would hammer the Scottish economy purely for the sake of her pro-EU ideology.

The latest statistics show that Scotland’s trade with the UK is worth four times more than its exports to the EU. Altogether, Scotland sold £49.8 billion of goods and services to the rest of the UK in 2015, compared with £12.3 billion to the other EU nations.

As Brexit is implemented, Britain will trade ever more intensively on the global stage. Yet the SNP, cocooned by federalist dogma, wants to cut Scotland off from these new commercial opportunities.

Not that the EU is likely to embrace an independent Scotland. It would have to apply for membership from scratch. And the process for an SNP-led Scotland would be far from straightforward.

Other EU states, particularly Spain, France and Belgium, will not be keen to encourage separatist movements within their own territories.

Moreover, the dire state of Scotland’s economy would preclude it from becoming an independent EU member. Brussels rules state that no member is meant to have a deficit higher than 3 per cent of gross domestic product. Scotland’s deficit last August was £15 billion — or 9.5 per cent of GDP. This is more than double the rest of the UK.

The stark reality is that Scotland is hopelessly ill-equipped for independence.

Dependency

Ironically, the land that once produced the great economist Adam Smith — apostle of the free market — is gripped by debt, decay and dependency. Enterprise is too weak and state expenditure too high, running at a fifth higher per head than in England.

Almost 21 per cent of the Scottish workforce is in the public sector, compared with 14.9 per cent in the south-east of England.

Revenues from North Sea oil, which the SNP once eagerly cited as a prop for their cause, are drying up fast.

Four years ago, Scotland’s tax share of the profits from the North Sea stood at £11 billion. Even in 2014/15 the total was £1.8 billion.

But last year, the amount in tax receipts was just £60 million, smashing one of the key economic arguments for independence.


Nicola Sturgeon watches the results come in during the referendum in 2014. Why should it be any different this time?

Without England, Scotland would be bankrupt.

Even the SNP government in Edinburgh admits that it spends £127 for every £100 it raises in taxation.

It is this largesse from English taxpayers that enables Scotland to continue its reckless quasi-socialist experiment in profligacy. Only cash from the English allows Scotland to have free university tuition and personal care for the elderly, as well as no road tolls or NHS prescription charges.

In fact, thanks to the funds from south of the border, NHS spending in Scotland has been 15 per cent higher than in England over the past seven years.

No longer bankrolled by England, Scotland would face economic meltdown, unable to raise money on the international markets because of its lack of fiscal credibility.

Freeloader


Some Nationalists claim independence would be little different to Brexit, since both involve departures from political unions. But in economic terms, the crucial difference is the UK is a major net contributor to the EU. By contrast, failing Scotland is an ever more expensive freeloader.

Perhaps the greatest mistake Sturgeon makes is to overestimate how much the English care what she thinks. She is delusional if she believes her threat of another referendum will give the London Government pause over Brexit.

And increasing numbers of English people are fed up with paying for subsidies to Edinburgh while being lectured by the SNP about their supposed oppression and neglect.

For Scots, meanwhile, the case for remaining in the Union is stronger than ever. Even if their country could stand on its own two feet economically, there is little doubt it would be better off as part of our Union — one of the greatest success stories of history, that has seen us together build a vast empire, and allowed Scottish genius — from the Enlightenment to the Empire to modern times — to shine brighter on a global stage than ever before.

The case for our United Kingdom is, and always will be, far more powerful than Nicola Sturgeon’s divisive rhetoric.

Read more: A cynical bid to smash Union that could bankrupt Scotland* | Daily Mail Online
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Last edited by Blackleaf; 1 week ago at 06:47 AM..
 
White_Unifier
#2
If Scotland traded more with the EU than with the UK, I'd see the point. But the reverse is true. Though leaving the EU hurts Scotland, leaving the UK would hurt it even more.

The only exception would be if leaving the EU so severely crippled the English economy as to then make it preferable for Scotland to leave the EU and join the EU. Though that could happen, it's too early to know that yet. If she was smart, she'd wait until after Brexit before launching such a referendum.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#3
Scotland will be better off on her own.
 
Blackleaf
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

If Scotland traded more with the EU than with the UK, I'd see the point. But the reverse is true. Though leaving the EU hurts Scotland, leaving the UK would hurt it even more.

The only exception would be if leaving the EU so severely crippled the English economy as to then make it preferable for Scotland to leave the EU and join the EU. Though that could happen, it's too early to know that yet. If she was smart, she'd wait until after Brexit before launching such a referendum.

She doesn't have to be smart as to when to hold the referendum. Whenever she holds it, she will lose it, as she knows full well.

The ONLY reason Sturgeon is so desperate for an IndyRef2 in the not too distant future is because she knows her popularity in Scotland is waning. In fact, in a nation in which the Tories are supposed to be extremely unpopular, the Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson is now more popular than First Minister Sturgeon. The next Scottish Parliament elections are in May 2021, and it's very likely that Sturgeon's Scottish nationalists will be booted out of office then, ending their hopes of independence. So Sturgeon and her SNP government are desperate for the next "independence" referendum to take place before then.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Scotland will be better off on her own.

Sturgeon doesn't want Scotland to be on its own. The SNP aren't true Scottish nationalists. They merely want Scotland to leave a political union of four nations to then join a more undemocratic, corrupt and economically sclerotic political union of 28 nations in which Scotland will have even less of a say in her own affairs. It's ludicrous - and it's ludicrous that they call themselves Scottish nationalists.

And if Sturgeon achieves her aim, she'd be taking Scotland out of the union with which Scotland does 67% of its trade (the UK), resulting in a hard border between it and that union and that union imposing tariffs.
 
White_Unifier
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Scotland will be better off on her own.

I'm not sure about that. If the UK remained a member of the EU, maybe. But certainly not with the UK out of the EU unles the English economy tanks... which could still happen in two years' time.

If England is smart, it might be able to compensate for Brexit through comprehensive Commonwealth trade agreements. But they'll have to be comprehensive to be worthwhile.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

I'm not sure about that.

I am.
 
Blackleaf
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

I am.

England will be better off if Scotland breaks away. I'm not too sure about Scotland, though.

Nicola in the last chance saloon: Sturgeon is desperate to rush through another referendum before Britain makes Brexit a success, the EU collapses and the demand for Scottish independence disappears forever, says KATIE HOPKINS

By Katie Hopkins for MailOnline
14 March 2017

In a bold move commensurate with someone far taller, the Ginger Dwarf from the North has declared there will be a second once-in-a-lifetime referendum.

Not only that, but this second once-in-a-lifetime referendum even has a date: between autumn 2018 and spring 2019, once the Scots have had a chance to see exactly what the post-Brexit apocalypse looks like.

By then, according to the prophesying powers of our wise son-of-a-bus-driver mayor, Sadiq Khan from Londonistan, we will surely all be languishing in a bloodied, repentant mess on the rocks, having leapt in our ignorance over the edge of the cliff of doom.


Nicola Sturgeon knows a second referendum for Scottish independence is her last chance for any kind of relevance in a political landscape, writes Katie Hopkins

If you wondered how or why the little GDFTN is managing to move her little ginger legs so fast, it is because of one huge thing which is entirely disproportionate to her polly-pocket stature: her ego.

Nicola Sturgeon knows this is her last chance. Her last desperate bid for any kind of relevance in a political landscape where things are changing fast and her voice is not being heard.

She demanded special treatment for Scotland in the Brexit negotiations. She was ignored.

She demanded Scotland remain in the EU single market even if the rest of the UK leaves (which would involve the devolution of nearly every policy area except defence and the macro-economy). No one listened to that, either.

She even tried to get an amendment through the House of Commons for the triggering of Article 50 to be delayed for at least a month until the devolved nations agreed a UK-wide approach to Britain's exit.

Her Brexit amendment wasn't just defeated — it was crucified. By 332 votes to 62. A majority of 270 told the SNP exactly how much authority it has over Brexit. And how much power Nicola Sturgeon has. And frankly, my AAA batteries from Aldi have more.


Nicola Sturgeon reminds me of a small child desperate for attention at any cost, writes Katie Hopkins

Her minister for Brexit, Mike Russell, even instructed party MPs to vote down Brexit because by voting in support of leaving the European Union they would be endorsing Prime Minister Theresa May’s vision of an ‘isolationist’ Britain.

And they were proved to be an irrelevant group of motor-mouths in that vote, too.

The idea that the Sturgeon voted against the will of the British people for fear of seeming isolationist, only to call for a second referendum to become an independent nation of only five million people that use Irn Bru caps for currency, is laughable. Even an American would get the irony.

Even if the Scots who voted for Independence and also voted Remain did follow the GDFTN down her suicidal path to Haggis Hell, she would still need to convince the largest group — the anti-independence, pro-EU voters — to vote against the status quo.

And that's more than just a big ask. She would have to win over these pro-union Remain voters at the same time so as not to alienate Brexit voters that already side with the SNP.

Given she is about as popular as Blair, and is blinkered by separatist ambitions, I don't fancy her chances.


Pictured: Independence supporters gather in Glasgow as Scottish First Minister Sturgeon confirms she will seek permission for a second referendum

I would be tempted to give her a name badge with her job title on it as a handy reminder. First Minister for Scotland. Quite different to First Minister for Separatist Sturgeon, on whose behalf she seems to speak.

She reminds me of a small child desperate for attention at any cost. Even if that means taking a poop in a pot and using it to paint a thistle by numbers.

And all this whilst she tries really, really hard to ignore the huge mammoth in the room.

Jacqueline Minor, the European Commission’s Head of Representation in the UK, said Scotland would need to formally apply for EU membership after leaving the UK.


The second referendum smacks of desperation and the Sturgeon is the reason why, writes Katie Hopkins

And Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the Commission, has said he did not want to see any more enlargement of the EU beyond its current 28 members during his term of office. There are already four countries on the waiting list. Scotland is not one of them.

Yet, despite all this, the GDFTN has called a second once-in-a-lifetime referendum. Because she knows it is her last chance.

She knows the European Union is collapsing in on itself. Much like my first marriage, I give it a year.

There is a reason she wants her second referendum before our two year Brexit negotiations are complete in March 2019.

Her biggest fear, and the new project fear for Remain voters, is that Brexit will be a spectacular success and they will all have been proven horribly wrong.

The second Indy referendum smacks of desperation. And the GDFTN is the reason why.

Read more: Sturgeon wants to rush through another vote before Brexit | Daily Mail Online
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Last edited by Blackleaf; 1 week ago at 07:13 AM..
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#8
Scotland will benefit. England won't
 
mentalfloss
#9
Suddenly, Blackleaf no longer cared about independence.


Typical Trumpite hypocrisy.
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Suddenly, Blackleaf no longer cared about independence.


Typical Trumpite hypocrisy.

"Fetch the Claymore from the woodpile, Ewan! There's a Sassenach tóraidhe posting on here, again!"
 
Murphy
Conservative
#11
Thank goodness the Scots will be dumping those lazy, dimwitted Brits. Many times I've heard a Scot say that there's only one thing worse than a smelly, stupid Brit. That's two or more smelly, stupid Brits.

Tayside - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tayside (external - login to view)

Taysiders in Space

wwwyoutubecomwatchvbLxLmFhROqY



Scots in America - 1885

wwwyoutubecomwatchv8r0pwUNkwpE

Last edited by Murphy; 1 week ago at 06:52 PM..
 
Blackleaf
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Scotland will benefit.

By leaving the Union with which it does 67% of its trade and whose taxpayers fund the Scottish people's free care for the elderly, free university tuition, free medical prescriptions and free car parking?
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#13
Scotland will benefit.
 
Blackleaf
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Scotland will benefit.

Well it's a waste of time just repeating it.

By the way, a brand spanking new poll has just been released showing that support for Scotland being in the EU is now on the wane in Scotland. Seems like the Scots are warming to this whole Brexit thing.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

Well it's a waste of time just repeating it.

No it's not. It brings me joy.
 
White_Unifier
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

Well it's a waste of time just repeating it.

By the way, a brand spanking new poll has just been released showing that support for Scotland being in the EU is now on the wane in Scotland. Seems like the Scots are warming to this whole Brexit thing.

You're reading too much into it. It's probably more a matter of realizing that while Brexit will hurt Scotland, leaving the UK would hurt even more.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#17
Short term pain for long term gain.
 
Blackleaf
#18
Nicola Sturgeon - another treacherous queen of Scots - has miscalculated



Allison Pearson (external - login to view)
14 March 2017
176 Comments (external - login to view)


Nicola Sturgeon, First Minister of Scotland and leader of the Scottish National Party Credit: ANDY BUCHANAN


I used to have a lot of time for Nicola Sturgeon. You might disagree with her about the Union, but she was undeniably a brilliant politician. The love-child of a Bay City Roller and a Shetland Pony, what Sturgeon lacked in charm she made up for in cunning and strength. While Labour at Westminster made itself progressively more unelectable, Sturgeon’s victorious SNP rolled out Socialism in Scotland (external - login to view), and – how clever is this? - got evil Tory taxpayers down South to pay for it.

It takes some nerve to offer free university education (external - login to view) to Scots and to young people from every single country in the EU, except England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Particularly when such largesse is only possible because Scots get £1600 more per head than the English. “I know, we’ll discriminate against you Sassenachs using your own money!”

As I say, it was hard not to have a sneaking admiration for the canny Sturgeon.

Well, not any more. At a critical moment in our history, one of the biggest, most anxious times many of us will live through, this self-serving little bism has handed EU negotiators a stick to beat us with. By calling for a second referendum on Scottish independence (external - login to view)when she knows there is maximum mischief to be made, Nicola Sturgeon proves herself to be not just dishonest, but a traitor to boot.

“We’ve made very clear our belief that constitutional referenda are once-in-a-generation events,” said Nicola, and she meant it most sincerely, until she lost that first referendum. Now, after the vote for Brexit, the SNP leader’s “belief” has conveniently altered. And why not? I mean, total loss of personal integrity is a small price to pay for shafting the United Kingdom, isn’t it, hen?

Instead of putting her padded shoulder to the wheel to help Theresa May get the best possible deal, the self-styled queen of Scots goes behind the UK’s back and flirts with the Continent. In the forthcoming negotiations, imagine the way that EU leaders could parade Scotland’s First Minister at a press conference, like a prize Highland Moo, just to stick it to the Brits.

It’s shameful, it really is. But Nicola couldn’t give a tartan duck about betraying 65 million of her fellow citizens if it advances the dream of three million people who want an independent Scotland. I’m struggling to think of a more poisonous display of political opportunism (external - login to view).

This is how much Sturgeon hates us. The woman seemingly cares nothing for the United Kingdom of which Scotland is such a precious and integral part. She owes the UK no loyalty. In fact, it gives her sly pleasure to undermine it at every turn. Look at the way she stepped in front of the cameras at Holyrood on Monday and delivered her “I wish we weren’t in this position” lament. Pained regret? Give me a break. Nicola Sturgeon puts the truck into truculent. The woman has an ego the size of an HGV.

Sturgeon’s contempt for the English is a given. What is truly shocking is the way she is prepared to play fast and loose with the future of her beloved Scots. (The same Scots who, only two and a half years ago, voted to remain in the UK.) If Nicola thinks that Britain leaving the Single Market counts as “going off a cliff” just wait until she tries to get an independent Scotland into the EU.

As one economist said tersely on Twitter, “Scotland is skint.” With oil prices tanking and a budget deficit of £15billion per annum, the country doesn’t even meet the entry criteria for EU membership. And if Sturgeon thinks that Brussels will fill the gaping hole in Scottish finances once London stops sending the cheques can I suggest she spends a long weekend in Athens? Greece is a good example of what happens to a debt-ridden small country once it’s strapped into the Euro straitjacket.

Make no mistake. The rest of the UK, grown aweary of Sturgeon’s nationalist tantrums, is not going to let Scotland keep the pound. They will have to take their chances with the Currency of Doom.

If you have achieved your lifelong goal and made Scotland an independent sovereign nation, why would you instantly sign that sovereignty away to Brussels? Why would you insist on holding a referendum concurrently with Brexit negotiations, causing a huge and costly distraction (external - login to view), when you could bide your time, wait until after the 2020 general election and see how things pan out?

Because it’s all about her, that’s why. This is about Nicola’s survival (external - login to view), Nicola’s career, making Nicola feel important, Nicola strutting about like a puffed-up little pouter pigeon in her scarlet peplum cooing, Me, Me, Me!

Another chronic attention-seeker, who has used Brexit for her own ends, is Gina Miller (external - login to view). On Monday’s PM programme, Mrs Miller told an astonished Eddie Mair that MPs should have been allowed to “vote in secret” on the Brexit bill. The same Gina Miller who lectured us all on the need for “transparency” seriously believes our elected representatives should hide their decisions. Consistency is for the little people, darling.

What stories do you suppose the Sanctimony Sisters, Sturgeon and Miller, tell themselves about their motives?


Gina Miller, Queen of the Remoaners

I prefer Her Majesty the Queen who, yesterday morning, was believed to be giving Brexit the Royal Assent, without further ado, over toast and Buckingham Palace Seville Orange Marmalade. As the Queen is believed to have said at a luncheon: “I don’t see why we can’t just get out. What’s the problem?”

You tell ‘em, Ma’am!

I reckon it’s already clear that Nicola Sturgeon has made a historic miscalculation (external - login to view). A third of SNP voters supported Brexit and plenty more decent Scots will feel that now is not the time to toss a caber in the works. They will wish Theresa May well as she goes forth to do battle for Scotland and England and Wales and Northern Island, each and every special part of this island nation.

The Prime Minister, with our full permission, should tell Nicola Sturgeon exactly what she can do with her second referendum, until such time as we are in calmer waters.

Meanwhile, if Nicola wants to go behind the back of the UK and flirt with the Continent, then be our guest.

Maybe just bear in mind, hen, what happened the last time a queen of Scots did the dirty on us. She lost her head while England and Queen Elizabeth emerged triumphant.

Nicola Sturgeon - another treacherous queen of Scots - has miscalculated (external - login to view)
Last edited by Blackleaf; 1 week ago at 07:09 AM..
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#19
Scotland will most definitely benefit. I'd be worried if I were English.
 
White_Unifier
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Scotland will most definitely benefit. I'd be worried if I were English.

How so when Scotland trades more with England than with anyone else?
 
Blackleaf
#21
Sturgeon 'abandons plans to stay in the EU': First Minister 'will scrap policy if she wins referendum' as FOUR polls reveal most Scots want to stay in the UK and don't want another referendum



Nicola Sturgeon is preparing to water down her Brexit demands after four polls showed she faces losing a Scottish independence referendum- and a majority don't want her to hold one before we leave the EU. A poll for the Scottish Daily Mail today suggested 53 per cent of Scots want to stay in the UK once you exclude those yet to decide, while a YouGov poll for The Times put the advantage even higher at 57-43. A ComRes poll for the Sun found just 25 per cent of Scots thought the country should be fully independent, against 58 per cent who thought it should not and 17 per cent who were unsure. Meanwhile, the huge annual Scottish Social Attitudes Survey included evidence of a sharp rise in Euroscepticism.
 
White_Unifier
#22
It would make more sense to push for more decentralization, not total separation.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

How so when Scotland trades more with England than with anyone else?

You don't think England would want to trade with an independent Scotland (or the EU since Scotland will join)
 
Blackleaf
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

It would make more sense to push for more decentralization, not total separation.

Well for a start, England needs its own parliament to put it on a par with the other three. And then the UK needs to be made a federal state like Canada and USA and Germany.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

It would make more sense to push for more decentralization, not total separation.

Well yes, if the English weren't complete twits. What England needs is another big war where Canadians and Americans can head over and spread some more seed. It seemed to have helped the last two times
 
White_Unifier
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

You don't think England would want to trade with an independent Scotland (or the EU since Scotland will join)

England wants to trade with the EU on the condition that it can close its borders to free migration. The EU will have none of that though so the best the UK could hope for then is something like CETA. The English are a proud people, too proud, so they'd be prepared to suffer in silence than be proved wrong on Brexit.

With that, if Scotland thinks that by joining the EU it could pressure England to accept the EU's terms for open trade, then it's making a big gamble. We never know. England voted to leave the EU on the understanding that Scotland would join the Brexit so that would be a game changer. But it would be a very big gamble to expect that England would change its mind on Brexit. Maybe, but it's a big gamble.

Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

Well for a start, England needs its own parliament to put it on a par with the other three. And then the UK needs to be made a federal state like Canada and USA and Germany.

Germany might be a better model of a federal state in my mind. But yes, I agree it would make sense for England to have its own Parliament.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by White_UnifierView Post

. We never know.

Ya, we do. Scotland will benefit.
 
Remington1
#28
I can't see any benefit for either the Scots or the Brits. Scotland would strain their economy with not just England, but Wales and N. Ireland, no? They would have to get their own currency. In my opinion they are stronger together, and this pettiness will hurt the people of Scotland more.
 
Blackleaf
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1View Post

I can't see any benefit for either the Scots or the Brits. Scotland would strain their economy with not just England, but Wales and N. Ireland, no? They would have to get their own currency. In my opinion they are stronger together, and this pettiness will hurt the people of Scotland more.

If Scotland left the UK and rejoined the EU - in other words, it becomes a sovereign state and then hands its sovereignty to Brussels, which is something the so-called Scottish "National" Party wants - Scotland will eventually have to join the euro, the Currency of Doom.

Good look selling that to the Scots, Nic.
 
White_Unifier
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Ya, we do. Scotland will benefit.

Scotland would benefit only if England could negotiate open trade with the EU, and that would require accepting free migration. Do you honestly think England would accept that? Maybe, but it would be a hard sell there right now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1View Post

I can't see any benefit for either the Scots or the Brits. Scotland would strain their economy with not just England, but Wales and N. Ireland, no? They would have to get their own currency. In my opinion they are stronger together, and this pettiness will hurt the people of Scotland more.

Technically, an independent Scotland could choose to use the currency it wants. The question is what kind of control it would have over it. If it joins the EU, then the EU central bank is controlled by all member states equally, so the Euro would be an option. If it opts to keep the pound, it would probably have no control over it since England would insist on not sharing that control.

But since Scotland trades more with the UK than with others, separate currencies just mean more overhead costs in money conversion.
 

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