Why does Svalbard not suffer mass immigration?

[Machjo]

Given how anyone in the world can legally work in Svalbard without needing any work visa, why is it that Svalbard doesn't suffer mass immigration?

 

[Danbones]

it is about midway between continental Norway and the North Pole. The islands of the group range from 74° to 81° north latitude, and from 10° to 35° east longitude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard

oh..I dunno

 

[Machjo]

it is about midway between continental Norway and the North Pole. The islands of the group range from 74° to 81° north latitude, and from 10° to 35° east longitude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard

oh..I dunno

Granted the weather's not the greatest either. So maybe Canada should just make its Northern islands like Svalbard and see whether we get a swarm of takers from around the world?

 

[Danbones]

If I was younger and into learning another language, I'd think about it, I like rugged wild places - and ice and water
but then we have lots of that in Canada and I can already work here

 

[Blackleaf]

Given how anyone in the world can legally work in Svalbard without needing any work visa, why is it that Svalbard doesn't suffer mass immigration?

Because it's like this:

Norway is a funny case because, even though it's not in the EU, it accepts EU free movement of people, which is something Britain won't be doing when it leaves.

 

[Machjo]

Because it's like this:

Norway is a funny case because, even though it's not in the EU, it accepts EU free movement of people, which is something Britain won't be doing when it leaves.

Svalbard follows different rules from Mainland Norway. Mainland Norway accepts the free movement of EU citizens, but Svalbard is essentially a free economic zone open to the world. Unlike on the mainland though, migrants to Svalbard must support themselves and do not get to apply for social assistance. Inability to support oneself and committing a crime are the only two ways to get kicked out of Svalbard.

From what I'd read, failed refugee claimants do have the option to go to Svalbard if they want to, except that they have to pay their own way there. I get the impression though that most turn that opportunity down, presumably because they have to be able to support themselves there.

 

[Blackleaf]

Svalbard follows different rules from Mainland Norway. Mainland Norway accepts the free movement of EU citizens, but Svalbard is essentially a free economic zone open to the world. Unlike on the mainland though, migrants to Svalbard must support themselves and do not get to apply for social assistance. Inability to support oneself and committing a crime are the only two ways to get kicked out of Svalbard.

From what I'd read, failed refugee claimants do have the option to go to Svalbard if they want to, except that they have to pay their own way there. I get the impression though that most turn that opportunity down, presumably because they have to be able to support themselves there.

So it's like the EUSSR's free movement rule but with a bit of commonsense added to it.

 

[Machjo]

So it's like the EUSSR's free movement rule but with a bit of commonsense added to it.

That and that it's open to the world and to global trade. I'm not sure though if it can freely trade with the rest of the EU since if it's open to trade with the rest of the world, it might violate European content rules and such. My guess is that those products that fulfill EU content rules can sell to the EU tariff free, otherwise not. Not sure how that works.

That said, it appears that mining and arctic research are its main industries, so not much if anything by way of manufacturing.

 

[Blackleaf]

That and that it's open to the world and to global trade. I'm not sure though if it can freely trade with the rest of the EU since if it's open to trade with the rest of the world, it might violate European content rules and such. My guess is that those products that fulfill EU content rules can sell to the EU tariff free, otherwise not. Not sure how that works.

That said, it appears that mining and arctic research are its main industries, so not much if anything by way of manufacturing.

I've found this:

"When Norway ratified the EEA Agreement, Svalbard was excluded from its application pursuant to Protocol 40 to the agreement. However, the Free Trade Agreements between Norway and the European Economic Community and the Convention establishing the European Free Trade Association continue to apply to Svalbard. Free trade in goods is of great significance for Norway's export of coal from Svalbard to Europe."

https://www.regjeringen.no/en/find-...2000/report-no-9-to-the-storting-/4/id456892/

Svalbard is currently part of EFTA (European Free Trade Association), along with three non-EU countries - Iceland, Liechtenstein and Swtitzerland.

Austria, Denmark, Portugal, Sweden and the UK were also once part of EFTA before they joined what is now the EU (the UK was a co-founder of it in 1960 and ceased to be a member when it joined what is now the EU on 1st January 1973).

 

[Machjo]

I've found this:

"When Norway ratified the EEA Agreement, Svalbard was excluded from its application pursuant to Protocol 40 to the agreement. However, the Free Trade Agreements between Norway and the European Economic Community and the Convention establishing the European Free Trade Association continue to apply to Svalbard. Free trade in goods is of great significance for Norway's export of coal from Svalbard to Europe."

https://www.regjeringen.no/en/find-...2000/report-no-9-to-the-storting-/4/id456892/

Svalbard is currently part of EFTA (European Free Trade Association), along with three non-EU countries - Iceland, Liechtenstein and Swtitzerland.

Austria, Denmark, Portugal, Sweden and the UK were also once part of EFTA before they joined what is now the EU (the UK was a co-founder of it in 1960 and ceased to be a member when it joined what is now the EU on 1st January 1973).

I thought all EU member states are obligatorily members of the EFTA too. That would mean that the UK continues to be a member of the EFTA.

Maybe the UK could look to Svalbard for inspiration. I don't know how many EU nationals will move to the UK to work if they can't collect social assistance though.

 

[Blackleaf]

I thought all EU member states are obligatorily members of the EFTA too. That would mean that the UK continues to be a member of the EFTA.

No. It's just those four that are members of it.

I don't know how many EU nationals will move to the UK to work if they can't collect social assistance though.

Hopefully it'll be a lot less than it is now.

 

[Machjo]

No. It's just those four that are members of it.

Hopefully it'll be a lot less than it is now.

And if you don't adopt Svalbard's policy but rather Trump's, then even those who can find work in the UK would not be allowed to work in the UK anyway however qualified they are. I imagine Brexiters will eventually face disagreement over the degree to which the UK ought to be open outside of the EU. After all, both Svalbard and the US of Trump are outside the EU, yet both have radically different immigration policies. The UK could pretty much choose anything in between.

In many respects, I'd say Svalbard's policy is more open than the EU's in spite of its lack of social assistance for foreign nationals. If anything, I'd like to see Canada follow Svalbard's lead on this. Open borders, but you support yourself and obey the law. Simple, really.

 

[Danbones]

I know what george carlin would likely say to that insanity

Oh, so after SH!TTING in the nest till its unfit to live in
you wanna bring That SH!T here and wreck this place too with that SH!T?
No, stay home and fix you own Sh!t
Do not come here like the white man did with your sh!t unfixed
just look what that SH!T has done to the whole place

we DO NOT any More UN FIXED SH!T
GET LEGAL or stay HOME

 

[Blackleaf]

And if you don't adopt Svalbard's policy but rather Trump's, then even those who can find work in the UK would not be allowed to work in the UK anyway however qualified they are. I imagine Brexiters will eventually face disagreement over the degree to which the UK ought to be open outside of the EU. After all, both Svalbard and the US of Trump are outside the EU, yet both have radically different immigration policies. The UK could pretty much choose anything in between.

In many respects, I'd say Svalbard's policy is more open than the EU's in spite of its lack of social assistance for foreign nationals. If anything, I'd like to see Canada follow Svalbard's lead on this. Open borders, but you support yourself and obey the law. Simple, really.

The UK can choose whatever immigration policy she likes and can control immigration without having unelected foreigners in Brussels telling us what to do.