Scottish independence: the cause of anti‑democrats

Blackleaf

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So what’s fuelling this rather fudged, opportunistic bid for independence? The SNP would have you believe it’s because 62 per cent of Scots voted to remain in the EU, as opposed to the 53.4 per cent of English people who voted to leave. It claims, therefore, that it has a mandate to pursue either a relationship with the EU distinct from the rest of the UK, or, failing that, full independence.

But peer a little deeper at the stats, and the SNP’s case looks less compelling...


Scottish independence: the cause of anti‑democrats

Tim Black
Spiked
19 October 2016

The SNP's opportunism draws deep on anti-Brexit sentiment.



The Scottish National Party appears to be gearing up for another attempted breakaway from the dastardly English and their oppressive union. It’s due to publish a bill on a prospective independence referendum this week, and assorted SNP wigs, big and small, have been sounding off about the UK prime minister Theresa May’s high-handed approach to Brexit negotiations. Not that things are as clear-cut as all that. SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon, the English liberal-left’s political pin-up, has been hedging the SNP’s bets somewhat, talking as much of what May needs to undertake to avert another independence referendum as the planning of a referendum itself. Indeed, as many have noted, Sturgeon appears to be using the threat of independence to gain leverage over Brexit negotiations, in particular by demanding that Scotland retain some form of membership of the EU Single Market. Thus far, Downing Street has unequivocally rejected the SNP’s threats-c um-pleas.

So what’s fuelling this rather fudged, opportunistic bid for independence? The SNP would have you believe it’s because 62 per cent of Scots voted to remain in the EU, as opposed to the 53.4 per cent of English people who voted to leave. It claims, therefore, that it has a mandate to pursue either a relationship with the EU distinct from the rest of the UK, or, failing that, full independence.

But peer a little deeper at the stats, and the SNP’s case looks less compelling. Yes, 62 per cent of Scots voted to stay in the EU, which is higher than the 55 per cent of those who voted to remain in the UK in the 2014 independence referendum. But, crucially, far fewer Scots voted in the EU referendum than the independence referendum – the turnout was at 67 per cent compared with 85 per cent two years ago. Which means that while 1.6million Scots voted to stay in the EU, over two million Scots voted to stay in the UK just over two years ago. As the Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson put it, ‘The 1.6million votes cast in this referendum in favour of Remain do not wipe away the two million votes that we cast [in 2014]’.

All of which probably explains why Sturgeon has been obfuscating, chucking out caveats, ‘what if’ scenarios, and half-baked threats – she’s simply not convinced the SNP can win another independence referendum. Indeed, all polls, despite an initial post-referendum upswing for independence, suggest that the majority of Scots still want to remain in the UK. And if the Nats don’t win a second referendum, then that’s them done for politically. So instead, Sturgeon is using the possibility of a referendum to try to dilute the Brexit vote, gain a special deal for Scotland, and play the big, strong nationalist – all of which is arrogant, anti-democratic, and looking unlikely to succeed.

But, if nothing else, this all-too-predictable piece of opportunism on the part of the SNP has revealed something of the real nature of the case for Scottish independence. Which is that it derives its impetus not from any popular yearning for self-determination, for Braveheart-suffused sovereignty. No, it comes from, ostensibly, an opposition to all things Westminister, hence the SNP’s justice spokeswoman Joanna Cherry recently referred to Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson and her ‘nasty right-wing colleagues down south’. And, deeper still, it draws on a disdain for English people, those putative racists and xenophobes who have constantly voted in Tory governments, albeit with a New Labour blip, and now have voted to leave the EU. The Scottish nationalists may not have a clear idea of what independence means, but they know what it doesn’t mean: backward attitudes, bigotry and ‘Proud to be British’ sentiment. As one young commentator argued in the Independent: ‘If Scotland was to go independent… we’d have a socially liberal utopia just north of Hadrian’s Wall to escape to… Compared to my encounters in England, I’ve always witnessed a far more outwardly respectful attitude towards minority groups, such as immigrants, the poor, the LGBTQ+ community and others, in Scotland.’

Scotland, you see, is everything England is not, especially since the EU referendum. All the negatives and pejoratives foisted on to those who voted to leave the EU find their opposites writ large in rainbow-hued Scotland. This is why there is plenty of support for Scottish independence in England among liberals and lefties – they share the Nats’ disdain for England’s lower orders, those duped and desperate masses that inhabit the parts of England the righteous elite fly over to catch the Edinburgh Festival. ‘I now believe that independence for Scotland is not only desirable but necessary’, writes one such English commentator. ‘It is necessary in order to lift the banner of progressive politics out of the mud, where it currently lies, and raise it as a beacon of hope across a European continent engulfed by the ugly politics of racial and national exceptionalism to an extent not seen since the 1930s.’ Another columnist also coupled disgust with English voters with enthusiasm for Scottish independence: ‘Now that England has cruelly imposed [an] embarrassing exercise in self-destruction on the rest of us, a question begs the answer: has Scotland honestly got anything to lose by ditching a xenophobic, cash-poor, post-Brexit Britain?’

What looks like a contradiction – being anti-Brexit, but pro-Sexit – makes perfect sense: underpinning both positions is a loathing of the largely English demos. That’s why the cause of Scottish independence feeds into, and reinforces, the anti-democratic tendency of our present moment. Scotland is being turned into a utopia for those seeking refuge from the people.

The irony to all this, of course, is that Scottish independence is itself now being shown to be a misnomer. There is no real talk of going it alone, of ensuring that the Scottish people have control of their own affairs. Because those arguing for freedom from the UK want nothing more than to immerse Scotland in the even greater union of the EU. Which is no kind of independence at all.

Tim Black is a spiked columnist and editor of the spiked review.

Scottish independence: the cause of anti-democrats | Scotland | spiked
 

Curious Cdn

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So, if they get a majority vote to succeed in the next referendum, that proves that they are antidemocratic?
 

Blackleaf

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So, if they get a majority vote to succeed in the next referendum, that proves that they are antidemocratic?

If the Scots Nuts get a majority vote in the next referendum - which can only be achieved, according to current polls, around the year 2060 - we'll just make them vote again, and then again and again if necessary, until they produce the right result.

You don't think a vote for Scottish independence (which is not something the SNP want because they want Scotland to be part of the EU and be merely run from Brussels and Strasbourg rather than London) will be the end of matters do you?
 

Curious Cdn

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we'll just make them

That's a pretty good reason to separate ... to get out from under the English jack boot.
 

Blackleaf

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we'll just make them

That's a pretty good reason to separate ... to get out from under the English jack boot.

The Remainers keep telling us that the EU in/out referendum result isn't "legally binding" - that it's just "advisory" - and that parliament would have every right to ignore the result and keep us in the EU.

The same argument would likely be made in the unlikely event of Scotland ever voting to swap rule from London for rule from Brussels/Strasbourg.

Coffee House

Sturgeon’s secessionist fantasy has been rejected by Europe. So why does she ask Theresa May?

Fraser Nelson






Fraser Nelson
24 October 2016
The Spectator

‘Downing Street says the PM is set to rebuff calls for a flexible Brexit, which would allow parts of the UK to have their own arrangement,’ said the BBC radio news this morning. Not quite. This notion has been rejected in Europe, where the idea of doing some kind of separate deal with Scotland or any constituent part of the UK was never a deal. The ‘options’ that the SNP talk about do not exist as far as the EU is concerned: it is a giant bluff. It’s far from clear why she is asking Theresa May for something that the EU has already rejected.

Even if Theresa May backed Nicola Sturgeon’s absurd plan to keep Scotland in the EU customs union while the rest of the UK left (thereby ensuring tariffs between English and Scottish trade) this would be rejected out of hand in Brussels and for a simple reason. The EU deals with and recognises nation states: it never cuts deals, of any kind, with one part of another country. And for a very good reason. To play Sturgeon’s game would be to stoke secessionist tension elsewhere in Europe. As the Spanish put it: ‘It is clear that if Britain leaves the EU, it leaves in its entirety. If Britain leaves, Scotland and Gibraltar leave as well’. Its Prime Minister said that ‘Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of (the) United Kingdom. I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves… Scotland leaves.’ France agrees. Francois Hollande has said that: ‘The negotiations will be conducted with the United Kingdom, not with a part of the United Kingdom’.

So the EU cannot and will not do any kind of deal with any part of a former member state. Even if the Germans agreed to this, the Spanish would veto it. Sturgeon is asking the impossible. That’s not to say her tactic is pointless. The aim is to present a Scottish demand that cruel England turns down and thereby revive the case for separation.

As for the Prime Minister, she sought to address any confusion about this earlier this month when she pointed out that: ‘Because we voted in the referendum as one United Kingdom, we will negotiate as one United Kingdom, and we will leave the European Union as one United Kingdom.’

So why is this even an issue? Because so much of the London media hasn’t worked out that it is being gamed by the SNP – and encouraged to take unworkable propositions seriously. The nationalists exist to advance a fake narrative of Scotland vs the UK. Sturgeon sees in Brexit a chance to play her favourite game.

Now, about 38 per cent of Scotland voted for Brexit; 53 per cent of England did so. A difference of 15 per cent. Significant, certainly, but hardly irreconcilable. Sturgeon’s game is now to airbrush out the two-in-five Scots who voted for Brexit. In the FT today, she uses two devices to do this. One is to say Scotland voted ‘overwhelmingly’ for Brexit – I’m not quite sure I’d use the O-word to describe a two-fifths vs. three-fifths split. And her next trick is to say that ‘every single part of Scotland voted to remain in Europe’ – a verbal formula which conceals that a million Scots voted to leave the EU.

As for her threat of another independence referendum? The polls show support has not changed much from 45 per cent; she’d need it to be as high as 60 per cent to risk another referendum. Theresa May is in a delicate position: she needs to be respectful of Scottish opinion as she is Prime Minister of five million Scots . But the SNP's claim for a separate Euro deal is bluster and ought to treated as such.

Sturgeon’s secessionist fantasy has been rejected by Europe. So why does she ask Theresa May? | Coffee House
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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If the Scots Nuts get a majority vote in the next referendum - which can only be achieved, according to current polls, around the year 2060 - we'll just make them vote again, and then again and again if necessary, until they produce the right result.
And Jack Cade calls the Scots anti-democratic.
 

Blackleaf

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And Jack Cade calls the Scots anti-democratic.

That's how things are done in the EU - if you don't like a referendum result, either ignore it or make them vote again until they vote the other way.

Ask the Irish (Lisbon Treaty).

And why's it not anti-democratic for Remoaners to try and force another EU in/out referendum? If they can do it, so can British Unionists.

But when it comes to not respecting democracy and the results of referenda, the SNP are world-beaters. After all, they refuse to accept both the result of the 2014 Scottish "independence" referendum and the 2016 EU in/out referendum and would like to be both re-taken until the voters vote the other way.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
 

Corduroy

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Can't help but wonder what the SNP thinks independence means. I guess they want to independently become a dependent of the EU? I suppose if you have to have a master, it's some consolation to choose it.
 

Blackleaf

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KATIE HOPKINS: Scotland said No to independence and Britain said Yes. Now what bit of that do you not understand, Nicola?

By KATIE HOPKINS FOR MAILONLINE
24 October 2016


Nicola Sturgeon says there should be no triggering of Article 50 until all devolved legislatures have agreed on their approach

Can you imagine trying to get divorced from Nicola Sturgeon?

Trying to extricate yourself from the Ginger Dwarf from the North would be the second biggest mistake of your life, after marrying her in the first place.

If her reaction to Brexit is anything to go by, she’d take you to the cleaners. She’d want the house, the car, your pension, and monthly maintenance for the kids you never managed to see - together with acknowledgement that she is still a strong and independent woman.

It’s like negotiating with ginger custard.

First she won’t accept the result of the Scottish referendum in 2014. She says she does, but more than two million Scots know otherwise.

As the increasingly popular Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson points out, ‘Scotland’s business community doesn’t want another independence referendum, and the majority of the people of Scotland don’t want another independence referendum.

‘The fact that Nicola Sturgeon is desperately pushing for one shows she has given up on being a First Minister for all of Scotland in favour of championing her own separatist agenda.’

Unabashed, Sturgeon told Theresa May she thinks a second referendum is absolutely on the table. (No mention that she’d need a high chair to reach it.)


First Sturgeon (pictured today at 10 Downing Street) won’t accept the result of the Scottish referendum in 2014. She says she does, but more than two million Scots know otherwise

Her failure to grasp the results of referendums does not extend only to Scottish ones. Oh no! She can’t accept that 52 per cent of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU, either.

You might imagine instead of using Brexit to further her own political ambitions, Nicola Sturgeon would be working closely with the British government to address the risks and explore the opportunities this decision creates for industries and sectors across Scotland.

But no. Outraged by the temerity of the British people (well the English, actually) in knowing their own will and asserting it, the Poison Pixie has another set of unreasonable demands. She wants Scotland to be given a vote on the terms of Brexit, for the devolved legislatures to be given roles in negotiating our approach.

Sturgeon says there should be no triggering of Article 50 until all devolved legislatures have agreed on their approach.

Ground Control to Major Tom Thumb. Are you receiving?

We voted Out. To Leave. We voted for Brexit.

And Theresa May can and will trigger Article 50 without a vote in Parliament, certainly without a vote from the people of Wales or Scotland on the terms of us leaving.


Theresa May gathered the leaders from the rest of the UK in Downing Street today. From left are Cabinet Office minister Ben Gummer, Business Secretary Greg Clark, Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood, and Mrs May. From right are Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster. Welsh First minister Carwyn Jones is pictured fourth from the right; and Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is second from the back on the right

No amount of Remoaning is going to change that.

Hardier than herpes, the Dwarf from the North has another fantastical demand.

She wants Scotland to maintain access to the single market.

Yes, you may be divorcing her, but she still wants access to the fridge freezer and your broadband connection.

She says the British government is expected to strike a deal with the Republic of Ireland to maintain free movement of people across the border to Northern Ireland, so Scotland should be able to achieve the same deal.

Academics have tried to show her she is wrong. Profession Michael Keating, one of the most eminent constitutional experts, rejects her argument outright.

Our deal with Ireland would not apply to the trade of goods and services, with barriers and tariffs applying if the Republic of Ireland is inside the EU single market and the UK is outside.

Even the European Commission has tried to make Sturgeon see sense.

It confirms that members of the EU single market do not have the power to negotiate bilateral trade deals with countries outside the EU.


As the increasingly popular Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson points out, Scotland’s business community 'doesn’t want another independence referendum'

Sounding increasingly like a mad woman with all the bargaining power of a Vietnamese dong, she also wants Scotland to control immigration into the country. I can only assume she has a picture of Angela Merkel above her lair and aspires to be the Scottish Mother of all Migrants. No consideration for what might happen when they discover the average temperature is minus four and the national dish is a chuffing great sausage. Presumably they'll all be on the first Megabus south.

SNP MP Pete Wishart asked the Scottish Secretary if the UK Government accepted Scotland had demographic challenges and immigration requirements that were different to the rest of the UK.

But the Cabinet minister told the committee: ‘If you are asking me if Scotland needs a different immigration system, then obviously the answer to that question is no.’

Clinging like a migrant to the back of a lorry as it weaves to try and shake her off, Sturgeon says that ‘anything is possible’ because Brexit is uncharted territory.

Clinging like a migrant to the back of a lorry as it weaves to try and shake her off, Sturgeon says that 'anything is possible' because Brexit is uncharted territory
Professor Keating says it has never been done before because it is not possible.

She really is quite something. Once she has an idea she clings to it like a ginger limpet on a rock. Not for the people of Scotland — for her own political ambition.

Nicola. The word you are unable to hear is ‘no’.

No. You will not have a second referendum. You can’t keep asking the question until you get the answer you want. You are not three.

No. You will not have another say in Brexit. We voted on June 23. And we voted out.

And no, there will not be a special deal for Scotland. You are part of the UK – a fact which costs English taxpayers, who indulge Scots with an additional £1,200 per head of public cash.

You are desperate to cling to the coat tails of Westminster and the Barnett formula, to the 100,000 jobs we provide for Scotland or the £48.5billion in Scottish exports we buy, yet you parade yourself as representative of a strong and independent Scotland.

You are every lazy divorcée I cannot stand. Too pampered to stand on your own two feet. Making utterly unreasonable demands, trying to claw-back your ex-husband’s cash whilst making his life hell.

The other woman, Theresa May, is now more popular than you in Scotland. It’s almost as if Sturgeon knows her chance at power is slipping away.





Read more: KATIE HOPKINS: Scotland said No to independence and Britain said Yes. Now what bit of that do you not understand, Nicola?* | Daily Mail Online
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Can't help but wonder what the SNP thinks independence means. I guess they want to independently become a dependent of the EU? I suppose if you have to have a master, it's some consolation to choose it.

The irony is, in Scotland a higher proportion of SNP voters voted Leave than voters from any othrer party.

Sturgeon would never like to admit it, though.
 

Danbones

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So what's this I heard on Alex Jones about Teresa Mae wanting to make all "old" EU law "new" British law?