Stop this stupid sabre-rattling against Russia

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,429
1,668
113
The coalition action in Syria and Iraq is as incoherent and misguided as everything else we have done in the Middle East of late — from the invasion of Iraq, via the support for those somewhat chimeric ‘Arab Spring’ rebellions to the catastrophic and stupid intervention in Libya. What we have done in the name of dippy, well-meaning, liberal evangelism has cost far more lives than can be laid at the door of the Russkies and Vladimir Putin...

Features

Stop this stupid sabre-rattling against Russia

It’s not their side that worries me; it’s ours

Rod Liddle






Rod Liddle
22 October 2016
The Spectator

I have been wondering these last few weeks whether it would be cheaper to excavate a basement and buy a Geiger counter and iodine tablets, or emigrate to New Zealand. Call me frit, but I don’t like the way things are heading. Probably the second option is easier: Armageddon outta here, etc. I can re-enact Nevil Shute’s On the Beach from some rocky cove near Dunedin, waiting for the fallout to arrive.

I was sentient only during the latter stages of the Cold War but from what I can remember, the two sides, them and us, behaved for the most part with a degree of rationality and common sense. (I like my politicians to be pragmatic rather than charismatic, which is why, if you were to ask who my favourite Soviet despot was, Brezhnev would always be the answer. Rather his grey, oppressive stolidity and détente than Khrushchev’s flaky, table-thumping, peasant-in-a-strop hyperbole.) Back then, when Reagan announced on microphone ‘we begin bombing in five minutes’ it was evident to everyone that he was joking. Today, when some deranged Tory MP clambers to his feet and demands we start shooting down Russian jets, it is evident to everyone that he is not joking, merely idiotic and dangerous. But it is a gung-ho idiocy which is catching. Every day sees a ratcheting up of the rhetoric against Russia. Some of it comes from our military, which is perhaps more comfortable dealing with a foe it understands, rather than with disparate gangs of nihilistic jihadi lunatics. We are warned, then, that Iskander missiles are being sited near the Baltic coast, the better to menace Latvia, with its large Russian population, and Poland. And then every day the tabloids tell us that Russian jets are flying up and down our coastline. As if they haven’t been flying up and down our coast for 70 years. And as if we have not reciprocated.

We should expect this sort of stuff from the armed forces, I suppose. It is when the politicians clamber aboard that I get really worried — for it is our side that worries me, not theirs. Andrew Mitchell was not alone in rattling the rusty sabre by suggesting we shoot down Russian jets over Syria. We also had Boris Johnson, our Foreign Secretary, demanding — in the manner of a clownish ayatollah — that people should protest outside the Russian embassy. Boris said this in response to the Russian and Syrian government air attacks upon Aleppo, which were certainly brutal. Then, about a week later, the West began, with clinical precision, to identify people in the last Iraqi Isis stronghold of Mosul with really radical beards and bomb them to smithereens, mercifully and humanitarianly sparing the local, decent, democratically minded citizens, who of course escaped the bombardment without so much as a graze.

Do people seriously swallow this rubbish? Do Boris and Mitchell? Both the UN and the International Committee of the Red Cross have warned that more than one million people will become refugees as a consequence of the glorious liberation of Mosul — and probably hundreds killed. But when that happens, it will not be the fault of the coalition, it will be the fault of Isis, or vengeful Shia Iraqi soldiers, or the bloodthirsty Peshmerga. Nothing to do with us, guv.

The coalition action in Syria and Iraq is as incoherent and misguided as everything else we have done in the Middle East of late — from the invasion of Iraq, via the support for those somewhat chimeric ‘Arab Spring’ rebellions to the catastrophic and stupid intervention in Libya. What we have done in the name of dippy, well-meaning, liberal evangelism has cost far more lives than can be laid at the door of the Russkies and Vladimir Putin. In Syria and Iraq we are fighting in support of people who do not really exist: the nice moderates, not the jihadis, but also not Assad. You can count them on the fingers of one hand, the Syrian Lib Dems: Mohammed Clegg and his friends.

A month or so back I spoke to a chap who worked on behalf of the refugees in those two benighted countries and was certainly no friend of the Assad regime. What would be the best scenario now, I asked him? ‘That Russia and Assad win as quickly as possible. That would minimise the number of civilians killed.’ But we are doing what we can to prevent that outcome, thus prolonging the war.
When the battle for the liberation of Mosul was announced to an utterly credulous western media, Vladimir Putin said he hoped that the coalition would do its best to limit the number of civilians killed as a consequence of the military action, but that he understood, too, that winning a war sometimes resulted in the loss of innocent lives and would not start stamping his feet and insisting we all go and protest outside the nearest US or UK embassy. Shortly after he made this statement, the Russians and the Syrian government announced a ceasefire in and around Aleppo, so that civilians might take advantage of six well-patrolled corridors to find their way to safety — for humanitarian reasons. So, as the coalition aircraft and artillery bombarded Mosul, Putin announced his ceasefire. And perhaps this is another reason for the anti-Russian apoplectic fury of both our government and the feeble and weary US administration — Putin is a canny operator. He is winning the propaganda war with some ease.

It has been open season on all things Russian for a while now. Their athletes cheat and get banned from sporting events. Whereas ours take performance-enhancing drugs solely to combat their crippling asthma attacks which might otherwise prevent them from winning the Tour de France. The US accuses Putin of conducting cyberwarfare to influence the presidential election. Well sure, although they’re not doing quite enough right now, by my reckoning — step it up a bit, Dmitri. But are we to believe that the US has no covert cyberwarfare going on?

And then there’s Russia Today, now thrust into the frontline. NatWest, largely state-owned, announced in gravely pious terms that it intended to close the bank accounts of the British-based, Russian-financed broadcaster. Hell, we never did that to Pravda. NatWest has subsequently backed down, as soon as Russia Today — with some justification — complained about restrictions upon freedom of speech and threatened to freeze the financial accounts of the BBC operation in Russia. While our government, keeping a straight face, denied having influenced the original NatWest decision — yeah, right — a spokesman for Theresa May added, ill-advisedly: ‘More broadly, do we want to make sure that misinformation is not being spread? Of course we do.’

So I think that’s pretty clear, is it not? There is indeed direct government involvement. We try to harass and hopefully close down a broadcaster because it is putting out stuff with which our government disagrees. I thought that was what the Russians were supposed to do; stifle dissent? And yet while Russia Today is indeed reliably compliant on Putin’s excesses, its news reports — often mirroring good old UK tabloid newspaper hackery — sometimes reveal a truth which would have been otherwise hidden. The problem, then, is not that they are spreading misinformation, but that Russia Today is spreading truthful information which the UK government finds extremely unhelpful. Is it non-biased and non-partisan, does it always give balance and right of reply? No, no and thrice no. Does the BBC?

There is a certain predilection among some British people, especially men of around about my age, to admire Vladimir Putin — largely for his decisiveness and social conservatism. While the West flounders, Putin acts — and so we might forgive him the occasional homophobic spasm (or even commend him for it). I am not a member of his burgeoning British fan club, though. It is easy to be decisive when you face no democratic challenge — which Putin assuredly does not. He strikes me as amoral and ruthless and belligerent. And I do not know how deeply ingrained is that weird, stripped-naked-wrestling-a-bear machismo, or how much it is for show. This is my worry: we provoke and provoke, we distort the facts in order to suit our agenda, we vilify Putin and his country in a wholly belligerent, one-eyed, manner, ignoring our own misdeeds — in Ukraine, in Syria and Iraq, and with regard to human rights and freedom of speech.

I fervently hope that, as Paul Wood suggests on p. 12, Putin’s belligerence is just an act for international consumption, and that he is nowhere near as stupid as Andrew Mitchell or Boris Johnson. That’s what I cling to, before I book those flights to Wellington. Because it may very well be a misplaced hope. And he may be pushed further than he can be seen to endure.

Putin is at least partly our creation, too, of course. You cannot divest a country of its empire, its political system and raison d’être, its industry, its jobs, its money, its prestige and world stature in five or six short years and not expect some sort of rebound, some sort of hankering after the old way of life, the craving for a Stalin-lite. A hankering after Putin. It was a missed opportunity, back in the mid-1990s, not to have love-bombed Russia, and invited it to join Nato. Now we must deal with Putin, as a consequence. And we are failing to do so. We are losing all ends up.

Stop this stupid sabre-rattling against Russia
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,429
1,668
113
Here's a good example from The Sun.

Russian warships are currently passing through the English Channel - the busiest shipping lane in the world - on their way to Syria.

According to The Sun, however, the Russians are "invading" the Channel and "marauding" through it. But they aren't: they're just passing through.

It's no wonder the Russians have accused the media of "overreacting."

State channel TV Zvezda smirked: "NATO got scared by Russian ships moving towards Syria."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20205...-channel-on-battle-of-trafalgar-day/#comments

View image on Twitter



Follow

Paul McNamara ✔
@PGMcNamara

In all her might #AdmiralKuznetsov (#c4news with super producer @Stanleigh77)

11:43 AM - 21 Oct 2016

17 Retweets 14

Brits look on for the Russian fleet from the Kent shoreline as it approached from the North Sea
The Russian flotilla is expected to pass through the Dover Straits this morning

Destroyer HMS Duncan is tailing the Russian fleet. The destroyer in one of the world's most advanced vessels

The fleet was snapped from the deck of a North Sea oil rig yesterday afternoon

Overhead, an RAF C-130 Hercules monitored its movements towards the narrows of the English Channel

Destroyer HMS Dragon is heading out to meet two Russian corvettes heading towards the Channel from the Bay of Biscay
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,429
1,668
113
"The Russians are HERE! Putin's attack fleet arrives at Dover!"

screams the Daily Mail

No, Daily Mail. The Russian fleet is on its way to Syria. Don't worry.

I can only imagine the amount of terror and panic speading through the poor wee lambs in the Daily Mail headquarters at Northcliffe House right now.


 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,197
113
Russia has recently warned that its S-300 and S-400 air defense systems are up and running in Syria following leaked reports on the US' intentions to bomb Syrian airbases. As Russia’s Defense Ministry cautions the US-led coalition against carrying out airstrikes on the Syrian army, military experts reveal the defense capabilities of the systems.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201610081046134414-russia-s300-syria/
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
I heard through independent sources who cannot be named that the Russian fleet is shelling British fishing villages and poaching crab traps.

They're shelling Brit fishing villages... that means Russian shells are landing in Ireland. ;)
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,429
1,668
113
I heard through independent sources who cannot be named that the Russian fleet is shelling British fishing villages and poaching crab traps.

And the British are fighting back. There's a naval battle taking place in the English Channel right now.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
If we don't sabre-rattle against Russia, against whom will we sabre-rattle?

I'd rather sabre-rattle against Russia. At least I know Putin will shrug it off and react responsibly. If we Sabre-rattle against North Korea, it could end up nuking Seoul.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I heard through independent sources who cannot be named that the Russian fleet is shelling British fishing villages and poaching crab traps.
Poaching crab traps!? That's where I draw a line in the sand.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Poaching crab traps!? That's where I draw a line in the sand.

Thank goodness for the new HMS dreadnought. They could wipe Russia off the face of the earth (and irradiate every neighbouring couuntry) for such effrontery. This deserves nothing less than genocide.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,389
11,448
113
Low Earth Orbit
A note to those who think the US is on the brink and needs a war. Well Poopsies, the Soviets are in 10X the trouble. They are broke and have no issues in using force to steal what they need just to keep the lights on. They are desperate.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,197
113
right, how many countries are the ruskies invading
and how many are the us invading?

List of countries the USA has bombed since the end of World War II
http://www.globalresearch.ca/list-o...as-bombed-since-the-end-of-world-war-ii/24626

A Brief History of U.S. Interventions:
1945 to the Present
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

US Bombing campaigns since 1945
Countries the US has bombed since 1945 is in fact only the most visible aspect of US Intervention abroad. In practice, US led assassinations and overthrows of legitimate governments and interference with elections may be just as significant as the actual bombings listed here.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US_Bombing_campaigns_since_1945

Since 1945, the USA has attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, most of which had been democratically-elected
http://investmentwatchblog.com/sinc...ost-of-which-had-been-democratically-elected/


can't do math in an mt hed i suppose
petrol fumes mess that up some

Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/washin...ed-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142

Burisma, a private oil and gas company in Ukraine, announced this week that it has appointed Hunter Biden, the youngest son of US Vice President Joe Biden, to its board of directors.
The company, founded in 2002, is controlled by a former energy official in the government of deposed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.
The move has raised some eyebrows in the US, given the Obama administration's attempts to manage the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.
"Joe Biden has been the White House's go-to guy during the Ukraine crisis, touring former Soviet republics and reassuring their concerned leaders," writes the National Journal's Marina Koren. "And now, he's not the only Biden involved in the region."
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27403003
 
Last edited:

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
2,084
0
36
Southern Ontario
It's odd that the same rightwing slopeheads who screamed that Obama was "bowing down" to the Soviets by not confronting them are now screaming about the RN actually confronting them.

As I said, Brits are retarded. And not just Brits.


Confrontation might not be necessary or wise if heads of State kept up friendly open dialog with other world leaders like Putin. Discussions, reasoning, understanding other points of view usually produce better ends than 'confronting'.