Brexit means that Britain will be boss again

Blackleaf

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We know what people voted against,’ say half-clever pundits, ‘but it’s far from clear what they voted for.’ Actually, it’s very clear: the British voted to leave the EU and take back control of their own laws. They didn’t dictate precisely what kind of deal we should have with our neighbours after leaving: that is for ministers to negotiate. But when Leave campaigners invited people to ‘take back control’, voters understood what that meant: legal supremacy should return from Brussels to Westminster....

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Brexit means that Britain will be boss again

All we have to do to regain total sovereignty is repeal Sections 2 and 3 of the 1972 European Communities Act

Daniel Hannan



The bronze statue of Lady Justice standing on the dome of the Old Bailey in central London

Daniel Hannan, Conservative MEP for South East England and a founder of Vote Leave
6 August 2016
The Spectati

We know what people voted against,’ say half-clever pundits, ‘but it’s far from clear what they voted for.’ Actually, it’s very clear: the British voted to leave the EU and take back control of their own laws. They didn’t dictate precisely what kind of deal we should have with our neighbours after leaving: that is for ministers to negotiate. But when Leave campaigners invited people to ‘take back control’, voters understood what that meant: legal supremacy should return from Brussels to Westminster.

Remainers spent the campaign trying to suggest that the EU was just one among several international associations in which Britain participated. It was, they wanted us to believe, a club, like Nato or the G20, in which we agreed to abide by common rules in order to secure common objectives. All such associations, they argued, involved some loss of sovereignty. If we wanted ‘undiluted sovereignty’, averred Sir John Major, we should ‘go to North Korea’.

Not for the first time, Sir John under-estimated the electorate. People could see that the EU differed from every other international body in that it presumed to legislate for its member states. Membership of Nato or the G20 may mean ceding power in certain areas; but it emphatically doesn’t mean ceding sovereignty — that is, the ultimate right to determine laws.

If Nato or the G20 aspired to unitary statehood, they, too, might become subjects of referendums. So far, though, no other body in the world has awarded itself supreme legal authority. I write ‘awarded itself’ deliberately. The primacy of EU law was not in the Treaty of Rome. Rather, as even committed federalists admit, it was invented by the European Court of Justice in a series of expansive judgments in 1963 and 1964.


Daniel Hannan: "When Leave campaigners invited people to ‘take back control’, voters understood what that meant: legal supremacy should return from Brussels to Westminster"

So the EU’s treaties are unlike any other international accords. Instead of binding their signatories as states, they sustain a separate legal order, superior to national laws and directly binding upon businesses and individuals within states. In any conflict between a parliamentary statute and a ruling by the European Court of Justice, our courts automatically uphold the latter. You don’t have to be a lawyer to know in your bones the EU has a unique power to boss us around. Brussels has progressively extended its remit into most non-economic areas: criminal justice, environmental protection, social policy, immigration, public health, employment law, defence.

Most recently, it has engaged in a massive power-grab by adopting the Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms, allowing the European Court of Justice to rule on almost every aspect of national life. When the Blair government signed up to the charter, ministers dismissed it as no more justiciable than the Beano. Yet it is now being used by Abu Hamza’s daughter-in-law to challenge her deportation from the UK on grounds that her son is an EU citizen. When people read of such cases, they know that it is idiotic to describe the EU as a club. In the 1970s, Lord Denning likened European law to an incoming tide, pushing against the flow of our rivers, causing them to burst their banks. In 1990, towards the end of his rich life, he revised his metaphor: ‘No longer is European law an incoming tide flowing up the estuaries of England. It is now like a tidal wave bringing down our sea walls and flowing inland over our fields and houses — to the dismay of all.’

On 23 June, people voted to restore Britain’s political independence. This point is worth stressing because, since the poll, various Remain supporters have become overnight experts on what the other side ‘really’ wanted. Leavers, we keep being told, were voting against immigration, or political elites, or inequality — anything, in fact, except the EU membership specified on the ballot paper.

Against the various theories offered by pundits, we have one massive data set. On polling day, Lord Ashcroft’s field workers asked 12,369 people why they had just voted as they had. The answer was unequivocal. By far the biggest motivation for Leave voters was ‘the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK’, with 49 per cent support. Control of immigration was a distant second on 33 per cent.

Addressing the concern of that 49 per cent is, on one level, very straightforward. Parliament simply has to repeal Sections 2 and 3 of the 1972 European Communities Act — the clauses that provide for EU law to take precedence over UK law.

The sensitivities around repeal are not legal but diplomatic. How can we carry out that abrogation while retaining the goodwill of our allies? Might we, for example, replicate some of our existing EU obligations through bilateral treaties, either open-endedly or for a guaranteed period? Should we aim at a hard exit, opting out of most EU regulations and becoming Singapore to its Malaysia? Or a soft exit, keeping the bulk of the existing arrangements and continuing to adopt many of the same standards as our neighbours for reasons of economy of scale? These are important questions — but less important than the thing that everyone agrees will now happen, namely a recovery of parliamentary supremacy. We might end up with a Switzerland-type association with the EU, or a buccaneering blue-water policy, or something in between — but all those options would be vast improvements on where we are now.

Once the EU loses its legal power to enforce decisions on us — and extract money from us — the balance is tilted. We may well choose to continue to participate in some European schemes; but we will be doing so as an independent nation in voluntary association with others. Think of the relationship between Canada and the United States. When it comes to civic, military, commercial and security links, you won’t find two closer partners. Yet Canada has sturdily refused to be drawn into the political union that knits together the 50 states across her border. She controls her own foreign policy, commercial relationships, embassies, frontiers, citizenship rights and courts. Unlike those of, say, Idaho, her judges and legislators are not answerable to a superior power.

Britain’s relationship with an increasingly united EU should follow a similar template. We should aim to maintain the closest alliance commensurate with political independence. Repealing the 1972 Act will make the United Kingdom fully sovereign — in a way that Japan or Switzerland or New Zealand take as read. Grant that, and the rest will follow.


Brexit means that Britain will be boss again
 
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Bar Sinister

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Boss of what? The world economy runs on international trade agreements. Is Britain going to emulate North Korea and Myanmar and become a hermit state? No matter what happens Britain's biggest trade partner will still be the EU and that means it has to conform to certain EU policies whether it likes it or not.
 

Blackleaf

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Boss of what? The world economy runs on international trade agreements.

What percentage of the world's countries are in the EU?

And you don't need trade agreements to trade. Britain has no trade agreement with the US, yet her trade with the US is growing. Her trade with the EU, however, is shrinking.


Is Britain going to emulate North Korea and Myanmar and become a hermit state?

Britain is going to emulate North Korea and Burma by being a free, sovereign state, free from the rotting corpse that is the EU.
No matter what happens Britain's biggest trade partner will still be the EU and that means it has to conform to certain EU policies whether it likes it or not.

Canada's biggest trading partner is the US, with which Canada does the vast bulk of its trade, yet Canada sees no need to be in political union with the US or to conform to certain US policies whether it likes it or not.
 

Machjo

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What percentage of the world's countries are in the EU?

And you don't need trade agreements to trade. Britain has no trade agreement with the US, yet her trade with the US is growing. Her trade with the EU, however, is shrinking.




Britain is going to emulate North Korea and Burma by being a free, sovereign state, free from the rotting corpse that is the EU.


Canada's biggest trading partner is the US, with which Canada does the vast bulk of its trade, yet Canada sees no need to be in political union with the US or to conform to certain US policies whether it likes it or not.

If the US gave Canada the ultimatum of either an EU-style NAU or no trade deal, Canada would be stupid to turn down even a somewhat good offer given our geo-economic reality abd dependance on the US

I don't like NAFTA's country of origin requirements for example but I'm not so stupid as to ignore our geo-economic reality either.
 

Blackleaf

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If the US gave Canada the ultimatum of either an EU-style NAU or no trade deal, Canada would be stupid to turn down even a somewhat good offer given our geo-economic reality abd dependance on the US

I don't like NAFTA's country of origin requirements for example but I'm not so stupid as to ignore our geo-economic reality either.

Neither the US nor Canada would ever join any organisation like the European Union.
 

Bar Sinister

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What percentage of the world's countries are in the EU?

And you don't need trade agreements to trade. Britain has no trade agreement with the US, yet her trade with the US is growing. Her trade with the EU, however, is shrinking.




Britain is going to emulate North Korea and Burma by being a free, sovereign state, free from the rotting corpse that is the EU.


Canada's biggest trading partner is the US, with which Canada does the vast bulk of its trade, yet Canada sees no need to be in political union with the US or to conform to certain US policies whether it likes it or not.

Well, let's see. As of right now the EU ranks number one overall in world trade.
And just in case you missed it - N. Korea is the rotting corpse, not the EU. And Myanmar finally gave up on isolation. Apperently it doesn't work.
And you apparently have no idea of how NAFTA works. It forces Canada to conform in hundreds of ways to what the US wants; one example being that the US has free access to all of Canada's resources except water.
 

Blackleaf

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Coffee House

The other Remainers who deserve the Légion d’Honneur

Charles Moore





Charles Moore
11 August 2016
The Spectator

Congratulations to Lionel Barber (above), editor of the Financial Times, who accidentally revealed that he is to be awarded the French Légion d’Honneur for his ‘positive role in the European debate’.

One’s only slight sadness is that Mr Barber has had to look abroad for such recognition. In his resignation list, David Cameron has showered honours on similarly ‘positive’ Remainers in his entourage, but ungratefully omitted the media. So more Légions d’Honneur, please, for Katharine Viner, the editor of the Guardian, Zanny Minton Beddoes, the editor of the Economist, and the entire staff of the BBC.

The other Remainers who deserve the Légion d’Honneur | Coffee House
 

tay

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"This is the Europe which we wish to see arise in so great a strength as to be safe from internal disruption or foreign inroads. We hope to reach again a Europe united but purged of the slavery of ancient, classical times, a Europe in which men will be proud to say, "I am a European".

We hope to see a Europe where men of every country will think as much of being a European as of belonging to their native land, and that without losing any of their love and loyalty of their birthplace. We hope wherever they go in this wide domain, to which we set no limits in the European Continent, they will truly feel "Here I am at home. I am a citizen of this country too".

Let us meet together.

Let us work together.

Let us do our utmost—all that is in us—for the good of all."

-Churchill


A short and simple sample list of what we already benefit from in the EU, and how we simply can’t know for sure if we’d still have those benefits on leaving.

Of course, the list isn’t exhaustive – it’s just an outline of some of the advantages of our EU membership. (See my graphic).
Top of the list is that it’s only because of EU membership that Britain enjoys full free trading status with all the other member states - representing the world’s most lucrative market place, and by far our most important trading partner. As such, almost 50% of our exports go to the EU.

The EU has an iron tariff wall against non-members; so would we really want to be on the wrong side of that wall as an ex-member? Even non-European countries that have negotiated ‘free trade’ agreements with the EU don’t enjoy full free trade access to Europe’s internal market, as Britain does now.

Could Britain continue to participate in full free trade if we left the EU? We don’t know for sure, but it’s less likely – unless, like Norway, we were accepted as a member of the associated EEA, but then we would still have to obey the rules of the EU single market (including free movement of people), we would still have to pay an annual contribution to the EU, but we would have no say in those rules or the size of our annual contribution.

Next on the list is that as a leading member of the EU, we have a say – and votes – on the rules, laws and future direction of our continent, Europe.

Would we have that as a non-EU member? Well never say never – but no non-EU member has a say or vote in those rules, so I think’s it’s highly unlikely that an exception would be made for Britain. Otherwise, what would be the point of an exclusive club offering exclusive benefits for members?

The right to live, work, study or retire across our continent is also a precious membership benefit that over two million Britons already enjoy. Would that right continue if we left the EU? Nobody really knows, but it’s unlikely.

The residence and other rights of Britons already living across the rest of Europe, and citizens from the rest of Europe already living in Britain, would also be thrown into doubt and confusion if ‘Leave’ wins the referendum vote.

Free health care whilst travelling on business or holiday in Europe is another cherished benefit of Britain’s EU membership – that would be unlikely to continue on Brexit.

EU laws protecting the rights of workers, consumers and travellers are probably among the most important reasons for Britain to remain an EU member.

For example, 4-weeks paid holiday a year; the 48 hour working week; anti-discrimination law; guaranteed rights for agency workers; guaranteed worker consultation - all of these protections exist because of the EU.

If we took away the strong armour of EU employment law, workers’ rights would be at the mercy of a Conservative government.
Anyone who believes they would then be in safe hands might be in for a rude shock upon Brexit.

Consumer and traveller protection laws are also arguably much stronger as a result of EU laws than we would have enjoyed under national legislation alone.

In any event, how can a national government assure safety and protection across an entire continent? The simple fact is that it can’t – it needs the reach of a pan-European intergovernmental organisation to achieve that (albeit with the democratic consensus of member states).

For example, comprehensive passenger compensation when, say, an Icelandic volcano seriously disrupts air travel – such compensation is only possible because of EU law, not national law.

Abolishing exorbitant mobile-roaming charges across Europe was also only possible because of EU law – no nation state alone could have achieved that. Europe-wide consumer protections, such as when buying products online or by phone, came about because of EU law rather than national law.

Because the EU is the world’s richest, biggest market-place, and the world’s biggest exporter and importer of manufactured goods and services, it can negotiate the best trade deals with other countries.

It’s often said that when negotiating, you get better deals if you’re the same size or bigger than your opposite number. The EU is the biggest economy – bigger than the USA, bigger than China, bigger than Japan. It has the muscle to negotiate extremely favourable trading terms with the world’s countries.

Could Britain, being considerably smaller and less important than the EU, achieve similarly good trade agreements with the world’s countries? It’s unlikely, but in any event, it would take many years to find out after we had left the EU.

https://www.facebook.com/JonDanzigWrites/posts/771490002983502:0
 

tay

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Britain could still be forced to pay the pensions of former workers of the EU despite Brexit.




That's according to Professor Iain Begg from the LSE's European Institute. Professor Begg made the prediction in a new report titled "Brexit: Six months on," which was jointly released by The UK in a Changing Europe and the Political Studies Association this week.

In a section entitled "The EU budget and public finances" he warned that contributions to the EU — despite Britain leaving the EU — is going to be the most "toxic" issue during upcoming talks and said the UK will still be forced to fork out billions of pounds in pensions to former EU workers.

Here is a key excerpt from his passage in the report


"...the German Finance Minister has hinted that such payments could last until 2030, although beyond 2023 any lingering payments would be small, so his warning is exaggerated. These are transitional problems which will gradually fade, although the UK could remain liable indefinitely for a proportion of the pensions of former employees of EU institutions.

"All these issues will be part of the Article 50 negotiations. While the implications are relatively insignificant in macroeconomic terms – the question of who pays for a few billion of pension liabilities is trivial compared to broader issues relating to the single market, trade, the City and migration – there is obvious potential for these issues to become high-profile politically, further complicating an already difficult negotiation. Moreover, in 2018 the rest of the EU will start negotiations on its next seven-year budget deal, a process that invariably becomes very fractious."

EU officials have repeatedly said that the UK will face a £50 billion ($62.1 billion) bill as soon as Prime Minister Theresa May triggers Article 50 and starts the official two-year Brexit negotiation process.

The figure is derived from the fact that the UK has to keep contributing to the EU budget until the end of 2020, as well as meet "outstanding pensions liabilities, and other payments associated with loan guarantees." Begg says in the "Brexit: Six months on"

report:

Brexit report: Britain paying former EU workers pensions despite Brexit - Business Insider
 

Murphy

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Apr 12, 2013
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The UK is pathetic humanity. They have soiled their own nest and now other creatures are arriving to mess it further.

They live in the past. Like senile old men, they speak of a long ago time which hasn't existed since the late 1800s. Still, they keep talking, trying to convince themselves that they are strong, believing in their former empire, now rotting away.

They still support a monarchy. A modern aberration. A wasteful public expense. Yet, they believe that the royals must remain, believing in their star power, and that the tourist trade justifies their continued existence.

They hate giving up the countries that they stole. The erosion will continue, but it is ironic that places like Australia, where the Brits sent their criminals, are better places to live, with stronger economies.

It is ironic that the ones who they still believe are inferior, Arabs particularly, are taking over their country now. The UK will be conquered by interbreeding, not by bloodletting.

In the short term, Brexit tantalizes and give some false hope. The world is witnessing the fall of an empire, but in the scheme of things, Britain's disappearance means nothing.

If there is anything good to say of the UK, it is that the Brits join other great kingdoms that have disappeared before them. Many regions have seen a rise and fall - The Roman and Ottoman Empires, the Chinese Han Dynasty, and the Byzantine Empire are a few.

In the modern age, complete with instant communication and pictures, delivered to the world by common folk, the world is witnessing their flailing and crying as they spiral into oblivion. It is ugly to watch and embarrassing in which to listen. Unlike the olden days, where the warts and reprehensible behaviour went unseen, today our cellphones and computers bring their silliness into our living rooms daily.

So, goodbye to the UK. Don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out.
 
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Blackleaf

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Voting to leave the EU was an act of national self-confidence. Politicians should be more optimistic about Brexit

Telegraph View
26 December 2016
The Telegraph


Former Bank of England governor Mervyn King is right to be optimistic

When Mervyn King speaks about the economic future, it is generally a good idea to listen. The former governor of the Bank of England did not have a perfect record as an economic forecaster (no one does), but he does have a near-unique experience of economic policy built up over more than 30 years at the Bank. Lord King, a cross-bench peer aligned to no political party, says Britain should be more optimistic and “self-confident” about its prospects outside the European Union.

Stephen Martin, the new head of the Institute of Directors, strikes a similar note, arguing that leaving the EU will “open our eyes” to the economic opportunities that lie outside Europe. Mr Martin, too, is politically non-partisan, interested only in what is good for British business. Both men are right and politicians should learn from them. Many of those who lead this country, or simply aspire to, should be approaching Brexit with a very different, more optimistic attitude.

Asking for more optimism about Brexit is not, as some of its opponents suggest, a way of continuing the divisions of the referendum. As Theresa May proves, it is perfectly possible to have voted Remain in June and to argue today that Brexit can be good for Britain. Mrs May will soon give a major speech on Brexit which she says will offer a vision of the country Britain can become outside the EU.

If it lives up to her promise, Mrs May’s speech will be exactly what the country needs, but her most important audience may be among her own colleagues and officials. Voters are largely positive about the future, believing in this country’s ability to thrive. Sadly, that belief is often lacking in some ministers and especially in the Civil Service. Too many still regard the Brexit vote as an error and the exit that must follow as a problem to be managed and mitigated, not an opportunity to be seized.

Outside the EU, Britain will be able once again to decide its own laws on everything from immigration to industrial strategy. We must surely also get more scope to build closer trading relationships with dynamic economies around the world. These are the freedoms that the British people chose for themselves and their country in the biggest vote in our history: the referendum vote to leave the EU was a huge collective act of optimism and belief that this country’s best days are yet to come. Brexit is a good news story, and our leaders should do more to tell it that way.

Voting to leave the EU was an act of national self-confidence. Politicians should be more optimistic about Brexit

Brexit was really about immigration, or more specifically, keeping brown people out.

Regaining sovereignty was the main reason people voted to leave the EU.
 

Murphy

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You continue to cheerlead, but your team is finished. :lol:

Your efforts to post relevant, accurate information about the UK is truly pathetic. Your sources are suspect. Your ignorance of the facts is large. You believe whatever the newspapers publish, and are incapable of critical thinking. Like a child, you believe that you can wish away your demise. I had students like you, many of whom were incapable of reasoning.

Still, it doesn't matter. The world is watching your ship sink. Good bye.
 

pgs

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You continue to cheerlead, but your team is finished. :lol:

Your efforts to post relevant, accurate information about the UK is truly pathetic. Your sources are suspect. Your ignorance of the facts is large. You believe whatever the newspapers publish, and are incapable of critical thinking. Like a child, you believe that you can wish away your demise. I had students like you, many of whom were incapable of reasoning.

Still, it doesn't matter. The world is watching your ship sink. Good bye.
Maybe you think we should join in union with the U.S. and Mexico , open borders and all .
 

Murphy

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Perhaps, but this isn't about me or Canada. It was my response to a man in the UK, who, IMO, is intellectually challenged.
 
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tay

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Maybe you think we should join in union with the U.S. and Mexico , open borders and all .

Yes, Britain, Mexico and the USA can become one. Sounds good to me. The deserve each other......