The Crimean referendum?

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
This seems to be a diplomatic coup on Russia's part. Essentially, if we oppose the referendum, Russia and Crimeans will accuse the West of being anti-democratic, of being against the will of the people. If Crimea joins Russia and we fight to reseparate it, then we're fighting against the will of the people of Crimea. If Russia backs off, then Ukraine is stuck with constitutional and legal control but little credibility of a Crimea that voted to secede. Either way, even if Russia did give the West what it wanted, how will Ukraine exercise legitimacy in Crimea?

Many questions here.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Where was the world's outrage when Quebec held a referendum? Ontario should have been busing people in that would have helped them separate rather than the other way around.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The world didn't care about us MHz. They could have helped us leave Quebec. But now we're stuck to them, it's terrible.

The west has gone on and on about exporting democracy for as long as I've listened. Now they don't even recognize it when it's engaged. Wrong brand.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
There seem to be an awful lot of dead bodies everyplace they bring 'democracy' to. No wonder some places are will to fight for a 100 years to stop that from happening.
 
Last edited:

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
referendum=bringing the question back to the people

The opposition has it's answer, now the terrorism will start.

There seem to be an awful lot of dead bodies everyplace they bring 'democracy' to. No wonder some places are will to fight for a 100 years to stoop that from happening.


Well you can't build a democracy without them, I guess. We get killed and then those of us who survive,we get to vote for the killers.
 

relic

Council Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,408
3
38
Nova Scotia
Ok, convince me this isn't stupid. supposedly 95+% of he people voted for going back to Russia. The folks that were against decided that the bright thing to do was boycott the vote.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Where was the world's outrage when Quebec held a referendum?

Compare the choices of the Quebec sovereignty ballot with that of the referendum in Crimea. Oh and the oversight of the elections, ahem machine guns.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Russia's elections were free and fair, the Ukraine elections were free and fair, that Government was then violently overthrown bys US sponsored 'terrorists'. Better get used to the idea that both Russians and Muslims can adopt UN Human rights into their cultures and they become stronger. It is only in the West (and Israel) that those rights interfer with the strangle hold the 3% have on the 97%. The only Muslim countries not adapting are the ones currently under the thumb of the West. The eastern part of the Ukrain will demand they also be given the choice to join Russia rather than the IMF/NATO alliance. It's already starting.

Ukraine's east on fire: Kharkov demands referendum, Donetsk prosecutor?s HQ stormed ? RT News
Demonstrators in Kharkov, north-east Ukraine, have appealed to Russia to pass to the UN their demands over a referendum on the federalization, while hundreds of protesters in Donetsk stormed a prosecutor’s office demanding to free a local “governor”.
As Crimea decides on its future in a referendum, Sunday in eastern Ukraine was marked by a fresh series of pro-Russian rallies.
In Kharkov, the country’s second-largest city, between 1,500 to 3,000 protesters gathered on the central square demanding a referendum on federalizing Ukraine.
Our city has been Russian and will remain such albeit within Ukraine. We are ready to live in a single country but on our terms,” one of the activists, leader of Civic Platform movement Yury Apukhtin announced from a stage, as cited by Itar-Tass.
After the so-called “popular assembly”, the crowd of demonstrators - chanting pro-Russian slogans and carrying a huge 100-meter long tricolor - proceeded to Russia’s consulate general where they handed over a letter addressed to President Vladimir Putin.

People carry a giant Russian flag during a pro-Russian rally in Kharkiv March 16, 2014.(Reuters / Stringer)

Protesters, on behalf of Kharkov’s assembly, asked Putin to “guarantee their rights and freedoms” and pass to the United Nations their demands regarding a referendum on the federalization, which they plan for April 27, reported Ukrainian National News (UNN) website. Additionally, activists asked to deploy Russian peacekeepers to Kharkov region, adding that they fear for their lives and property.
The demonstrators then marched to the nearby consulate of Poland, protesting against Western interference into Ukrainian affairs.
Kharkov protesters also looted the building housing offices of radical-nationalist organizations, including the Right Sector group, reported Interfax-Ukraine. The activists broke into the building, took out books and nationalist symbols and burnt them.

Pro-Russian activists hold giant Russian flags during their rally in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on March 16, 2014.(AFP Photo / Alexander Khudoteply)

Donetsk rally demands release of 'people’s governor'

Several thousand pro-Russian protesters took to the streets in Donetsk, a large industrial city in eastern Ukraine.
The demonstrators demanded that the parliament, Verkhovna Rada “remove from power the illegitimate Cabinet and cancel its decision,” cited Itar-Tass. They also urge the creation of a new coalition government, the composition of which would be agreed with the people. Protesters said it was necessary to go back to the February 21 agreement on the crisis settlement, which was signed by ousted President Viktor Yanukovich and opposition leaders and provides for early parliamentary and presidential elections.
Among other demands is giving Russian language a status of a second official tongue and an investigation of killings of law enforcers and protesters on Kiev’s Maidan Square in February.

Pro-Russian demonstrators scuffle with police during a rally in Donetsk March 16, 2014 (Reuters / Stringer)

A crowd of up to 2,000 people reportedly stormed the regional Prosecutor’s Office, demanding to free “people’s governor” Pavel Gubarev. The political activist – who was spontaneously proclaimed the governor during a demonstration on March 1 - was detained on March 6 on charges of violating the territorial integrity of Ukraine, takeover of power, and seizure of government buildings.
Demonstrators broke into in the building, smashed windows, tore off and threw away the Ukrainian national flag and replaced it with Russian, according to Interfax.
Activists also reportedly entered into the office of a company owned by oligarch Sergey Taruta, the head of the regional administration appointed to the post by Kiev authorities. Protesters stated that they consider the governor illegitimate, reported RIA Novosti. Having not found Taruta in the building, protesters then marched to the regional administration office.
Meanwhile, Kiev sent heavy military hardware to the borders with Russia. Activists in eastern Ukraine regions, including Donetsk and Lugansk, were reportedly blocking trains delivering military equipment from the central and western parts of Ukraine.

Pro-Russian activists hold Russian flags and flags with the colours of the ribbon of Saint George, a Russian military decoration, as they storm the prosecutor's office in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on March 16, 2014 (AFP Photo / Alexander Khudoteply)


Riot police stand guard in front of a regional government building as pro-Russian demonstrators take part in a rally in Kharkiv March 16, 2014 (Reuters / Stringer)
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
83
Canada
You kinda gotta hand it to Putin, he got what he wanted without any bloodshed.

Maybe the West should learn, there are different ways of taking over countries without having to revert to blazing guns!!
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
You kinda gotta hand it to Putin, he got what he wanted without any bloodshed.

Maybe the West should learn, there are different ways of taking over countries without having to revert to blazing guns!!
This like Georgia was easy game.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
You kinda gotta hand it to Putin, he got what he wanted without any bloodshed.

Maybe the West should learn, there are different ways of taking over countries without having to revert to blazing guns!!
When your only industry is war machines that isn't going to happen.

This like Georgia was easy game.
It's always easy when that is what the vast majority of the citizens want it a certain way.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
83
Canada
It looks to me like Putin has the upper hand here.
The west is just wagging it's finger threatening sanctions etc, but I don't think Putin gives a sh^t what the west says, it's holding the better hand and it could be that it will now start to take over Ukraine or parts of it.