The oppression of Baha'is in Iran and the impact on Muslims.


Machjo
+1
#1
Every now and then we read of the oppression of Baha'is in Iran less as a means of showing concern for their plight but more as a means to take a cheap shot at Islam.

Professing the Baha'i Faith myself, I've actually spoken to a number of Baha'is from Iran, and have heard stories of how Muslims can be affected by this oppression too.

For instance, what many forget is that while it is common for Baha'is in Iran to be raised and educated by Baha'i parents, many do not have Baha'i parents. In many cases, their parents are Muslim. There are also cases of Iranians becoming Baha'i after marriage.

In both of these cases, it is common for these Muslim parents and spouses to attract suspicion from the authorities or face questioning of their parenting etc.

And needless to say that in Iran, just attracting suspicion from the authorities is nerve-racking enough.

There have also been cases of Muslims facing harassement for standing up for Baha'is, and I've never heard of a Baha'i blaming Islam for this oppression. In fact, Baha'is believe in the Qur'an and Ahadith, and generally lament the lack of Fath in Iran (not to be confused with fanaticism) than the presence of Islam itself.

This makes it ironic that opponents of Islam should insist of using the oppression of Baha'is as a cheap shot against Irlam when Baha'is themselves do not blame Islam for their oppression.
 
BaalsTears
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

...This makes it ironic that opponents of Islam should insist of using the oppression of Baha'is as a cheap shot against Irlam when Baha'is themselves do not blame Islam for their oppression.

Stockholm Syndrome.
 
Machjo
+1
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

Stockholm Syndrome.

Not Stockholm Syndrome. Of course we hold fanaticism in the name of Islam accountable, and individuals are responsible for their actions. The point is we don't blame Islam but the actions of individuals.

To call it Stockholm Syndrome would be like calling a black man who opposes calling all white men racist in spite of having been attacked by white suppremacists himself as just a sufferer of Stockhome syndrome.
 
ShintoMale
NDP
+2
#4  Top Rated Post
Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, Baha'is have been systematically persecuted as a matter of government policy. During the first decade of this persecution, more than 200 Baha'is were killed or executed, hundreds more were tortured or imprisoned, and tens of thousands lost jobs, access to education, and other rights – all solely because of their religious belief.

Government-led attacks on the country’s largest non-Muslim religious minority have re-intensified in the last decade. Since 2005, more than more than 710 Baha'is have been arrested, and the number of Baha'is in prison has risen from fewer than five to a current figure of 115. The list of prisoners includes all seven members of a former leadership group serving the Baha'i community of Iran. In 2010, the seven were wrongly sentenced to 20 years in prison, which is the longest term currently facing any prisoner of conscience in Iran. The constant threat of raids, arrests, and detention or imprisonment is among the main features of Iran’s persecution of Baha’is today.

Other types of persecution include economic and educational discrimination, strict limits on the right to assemble and worship, and the dissemination of anti-Baha’i propaganda in the government-led news media. Attacks on Baha'is or Baha'i-owned properties go unprosecuted and unpunished, creating a sense of impunity for attackers. Since 2005, for example, there have been at least 49 incidents of arson against Baha’i properties, crimes for which no one has been arrested. During the same period, 42 incidents of vandalism at Baha’i cemeteries have been recorded. As noted recently by a top UN human rights official, the government-led persecution spans “all areas of state activity, from family law provisions to schooling, education, and security." Put another way: the oppression of Iranian Baha’is extends from cradle to grave.


Current situation of Baha'is in Iran | Baha'i International Community - United Nations Office (external - login to view)
 
Machjo
#5
Absolutely correct, Shinto Male.

The question though, is: How does using this as a means to promote Islamophobia help the situation?

I profess the Baha'i Faith and have Muslim friends myself.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#6
I was not taking a cheap shot- I can defend my statement.
So who is oppressing the Bahia in Iran - Who are targeting the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan for mass killings.
Who are targeting the Copts in Egypt.
 
BaalsTears
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I was not taking a cheap shot- I can defend my statement.
So who is oppressing the Bahia in Iran - Who are targeting the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan for mass killings.
Who are targeting the Copts in Egypt.

Juice? Joos?
 
Machjo
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I was not taking a cheap shot- I can defend my statement.
So who is oppressing the Bahia in Iran - Who are targeting the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan for mass killings.
Who are targeting the Copts in Egypt.

Muslims, yes. But is that what their religion teaches them, or just their own fanatical interpretation thereof?

And are all Muslims responsible or just those engaging in the oppression?

I may be misreading it, but sometimes I get the impression that some intend to paint all Muslims with the same brush.
 
petros
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Shintodude

Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, Baha'is have been systematically persecuted as a matter of government policy.

That's about the same time organized Christianity came under attack in North America. Coinky?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

That's about the same time organized Christianity came under attack in North America. Coinky?

What attack is that?
 
petros
#11
You never noticed everything from prayer in school, Christmas trees to Easter bunnies being stuff in the closet?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You never noticed everything from prayer in school, Christmas trees to Easter bunnies being stuff in the closet?

Well, the first is just the long-delayed enforcement of the First Amendment to the Constitution. As to the rest, it's a bunch of Christians overreacting to a handful of pissy full-time malcontents.

It is a great way to let white Christians feel victimised, though.
 
BaalsTears
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Not Stockholm Syndrome. Of course we hold fanaticism in the name of Islam accountable, and individuals are responsible for their actions. The point is we don't blame Islam but the actions of individuals.

To call it Stockholm Syndrome would be like calling a black man who opposes calling all white men racist in spite of having been attacked by white suppremacists himself as just a sufferer of Stockhome syndrome.

Interesting logic.

A Muslim who converts to the Bahai faith is a type of apostate. What happens to apostates?
 
petros
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Well, the first is just the long-delayed enforcement of the First Amendment to the Constitution. As to the rest, it's a bunch of Christians overreacting to a handful of pissy full-time malcontents.

It is a great way to let white Christians feel victimised, though.

Ahh that's what is but it's no oppression by Gov to stuff everything in the closet.

Since there aren't any Kings using the Church to collect taxes, keep records, run schools and hospitals as a quasi Gov that defines the terminology of "Separation of Church and State" doesn't mean anything what you think it does.
 
BaalsTears
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

That's about the same time organized Christianity came under attack in North America. Coinky?

Christianity in the West is being marginalized and driven from the public arena by secular zealots. In the Middle East Christianity is being extirpated. However, Christianity has been reborn in Sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia where it is a militant faith. This century will belong to East Asia imo and this militant version of Christianity will rise with it.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Ahh that's what is but it's no oppression by Gov to stuff everything in the closet.

Don't know about your government, but ours isn't stuffing anything anywhere, except Obamacare down our throats.

Most local and state governments decline to have religious displays on public property, which is their choice, as owners of the property. What private individuals do is up to them.

Quote:

Since there aren't any Kings using the Church to collect taxes, keep records, run schools and hospitals as a quasi Gov that defines the terminology of "Separation of Church and State" doesn't mean anything what you think it does.

I know exactly what it means, having studied it at some length in law school.

Have you considered that all the whining about the "War on Christmas" may be a false flag operation?
 
petros
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

Christianity in the West is being marginalized and driven from the public arena by secular zealots. In the Middle East Christianity is being extirpated. However, Christianity has been reborn in Sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia where it is a militant faith. This century will belong to East Asia imo and this militant version of Christianity will rise with it.

Africa is being Colonized by Asians. China mainly. Africa can feed the world all by it's lonesome.

Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Don't know about your government, but ours isn't stuffing anything anywhere, except Obamacare down our throats.

Most local and state governments decline to have religious displays on public property, which is their choice, as owners of the property. What private individuals do is up to them.


I know exactly what it means, having studied it at some length in law school.

Have you considered that all the whining about the "War on Christmas" may be a false flag operation?

The Affordable health Act aka Obamacare is Christian?

No wonder the rest of the discussion makes zero sense. You're nuts.
 
Machjo
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

Interesting logic.

A Muslim who converts to the Bahai faith is a type of apostate. What happens to apostates?

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external - login to view)

According to the Iranian interpretation, they are executed. But as you can see, there is dispute about how to interpret those aspects of the Qur'an which supposedly propose the death penalty for apostacy.

Not to mention that as far as Baha'is are concerned, the Baha'i Faith fulfils the Qur'an.
 
ShintoMale
NDP
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You never noticed everything from prayer in school, Christmas trees to Easter bunnies being stuff in the closet?

mandatory organized prayers and sermons in public schools are unconstitutional.
 
petros
#20
Are they?
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Muslims, yes. But is that what their religion teaches them, or just their own fanatical interpretation thereof?

And are all Muslims responsible or just those engaging in the oppression?

I may be misreading it, but sometimes I get the impression that some intend to paint all Muslims with the same brush.

Christians did the same thing hundreds of years ago - Tell me the difference?
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#22
Bahai's in Iran are being trampled on by a regime that is relious fascism
This is the systamatic destruction of peoples beliefs because only one
reliion is to be permitted.
As for Christians in North America there are lots of religions in this country.
In many cases it not oppression of Christianity it a backlash to some who
think they can and should be privileged in this country.
We hear this is a Christian God fearing country when in fact that is not true
at all. The majority may in fact be Christians but that does not mean its a
christian country. If that were true we would it would be called a Christian
State and we would be a theocracy not a democracy.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1 / -1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Absolutely correct, Shinto Male.

The question though, is: How does using this as a means to promote Islamophobia help the situation?

I profess the Baha'i Faith and have Muslim friends myself.


My Muslim friend from Iran has several Bahai friends. He agrees that there has been suppression against some Bahais for political reason but political suppressions are far worse in other Islamic countries. A few Jews were arrested and prosecuted for espionage but as we have discussed on this forum before, the vast majority of Jews live in that country in peace. By contrast, far more Sikhs were suppressed in India but the media has given that no attention at all. And even more Shia have been persecuted in Pakistan. Again, where the media attention and international outcry?

People everywhere are very selective in their prejudices and criticisms. We have seen enough of that on this forum and will see even more.
 
BaalsTears
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

...Baha'i Faith fulfils the Qur'an.

Every faith believes it is the fulfillment of prophecy.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Africa is being Colonized by Asians. China mainly. Africa can feed the world all by it's lonesome.
...

That's true.

What's interesting is that the fastest growing faith in China is Christianity. There are something like one hundred million Christians in China. It's only just begun.

Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

...
I know exactly what it means, having studied it at some length in law school.
...

Which law school did you attend?
 
petros
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTearsView Post

What's interesting is that the fastest growing faith in China is Christianity. There are something like one hundred million Christians in China. It's only just begun.



Which law school did you attend?

There already was a big Catholic faction in China all along.

University of American Samoa
 
BaalsTears
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

There already was a big Catholic faction in China all along.

University of American Samoa

Didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
 
petros
#27
There are even Chinese Jews of all things.
 

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