The oppression of Baha'is in Iran and the impact on Muslims.

[Machjo]

Every now and then we read of the oppression of Baha'is in Iran less as a means of showing concern for their plight but more as a means to take a cheap shot at Islam.

Professing the Baha'i Faith myself, I've actually spoken to a number of Baha'is from Iran, and have heard stories of how Muslims can be affected by this oppression too.

For instance, what many forget is that while it is common for Baha'is in Iran to be raised and educated by Baha'i parents, many do not have Baha'i parents. In many cases, their parents are Muslim. There are also cases of Iranians becoming Baha'i after marriage.

In both of these cases, it is common for these Muslim parents and spouses to attract suspicion from the authorities or face questioning of their parenting etc.

And needless to say that in Iran, just attracting suspicion from the authorities is nerve-racking enough.

There have also been cases of Muslims facing harassement for standing up for Baha'is, and I've never heard of a Baha'i blaming Islam for this oppression. In fact, Baha'is believe in the Qur'an and Ahadith, and generally lament the lack of Fath in Iran (not to be confused with fanaticism) than the presence of Islam itself.

This makes it ironic that opponents of Islam should insist of using the oppression of Baha'is as a cheap shot against Irlam when Baha'is themselves do not blame Islam for their oppression.

 

[BaalsTears]

...This makes it ironic that opponents of Islam should insist of using the oppression of Baha'is as a cheap shot against Irlam when Baha'is themselves do not blame Islam for their oppression.

Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Machjo]

Stockholm Syndrome.

Not Stockholm Syndrome. Of course we hold fanaticism in the name of Islam accountable, and individuals are responsible for their actions. The point is we don't blame Islam but the actions of individuals.

To call it Stockholm Syndrome would be like calling a black man who opposes calling all white men racist in spite of having been attacked by white suppremacists himself as just a sufferer of Stockhome syndrome.

 

[ShintoMale]

Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, Baha'is have been systematically persecuted as a matter of government policy. During the first decade of this persecution, more than 200 Baha'is were killed or executed, hundreds more were tortured or imprisoned, and tens of thousands lost jobs, access to education, and other rights – all solely because of their religious belief.

Government-led attacks on the country’s largest non-Muslim religious minority have re-intensified in the last decade. Since 2005, more than more than 710 Baha'is have been arrested, and the number of Baha'is in prison has risen from fewer than five to a current figure of 115. The list of prisoners includes all seven members of a former leadership group serving the Baha'i community of Iran. In 2010, the seven were wrongly sentenced to 20 years in prison, which is the longest term currently facing any prisoner of conscience in Iran. The constant threat of raids, arrests, and detention or imprisonment is among the main features of Iran’s persecution of Baha’is today.

Other types of persecution include economic and educational discrimination, strict limits on the right to assemble and worship, and the dissemination of anti-Baha’i propaganda in the government-led news media. Attacks on Baha'is or Baha'i-owned properties go unprosecuted and unpunished, creating a sense of impunity for attackers. Since 2005, for example, there have been at least 49 incidents of arson against Baha’i properties, crimes for which no one has been arrested. During the same period, 42 incidents of vandalism at Baha’i cemeteries have been recorded. As noted recently by a top UN human rights official, the government-led persecution spans “all areas of state activity, from family law provisions to schooling, education, and security." Put another way: the oppression of Iranian Baha’is extends from cradle to grave.


Current situation of Baha'is in Iran | Baha'i International Community - United Nations Office

 

[Machjo]

Absolutely correct, Shinto Male.

The question though, is: How does using this as a means to promote Islamophobia help the situation?

I profess the Baha'i Faith and have Muslim friends myself.

 

[Goober]

I was not taking a cheap shot- I can defend my statement.
So who is oppressing the Bahia in Iran - Who are targeting the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan for mass killings.
Who are targeting the Copts in Egypt.

 

[BaalsTears]

I was not taking a cheap shot- I can defend my statement.
So who is oppressing the Bahia in Iran - Who are targeting the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan for mass killings.
Who are targeting the Copts in Egypt.

Juice? Joos?

 

[Machjo]

I was not taking a cheap shot- I can defend my statement.
So who is oppressing the Bahia in Iran - Who are targeting the Ahmadiyya in Pakistan for mass killings.
Who are targeting the Copts in Egypt.

Muslims, yes. But is that what their religion teaches them, or just their own fanatical interpretation thereof?

And are all Muslims responsible or just those engaging in the oppression?

I may be misreading it, but sometimes I get the impression that some intend to paint all Muslims with the same brush.

 

[petros]

Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, Baha'is have been systematically persecuted as a matter of government policy.

That's about the same time organized Christianity came under attack in North America. Coinkydink?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

That's about the same time organized Christianity came under attack in North America. Coinkydink?

What attack is that?

 

[petros]

You never noticed everything from prayer in school, Christmas trees to Easter bunnies being stuff in the closet?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You never noticed everything from prayer in school, Christmas trees to Easter bunnies being stuff in the closet?

Well, the first is just the long-delayed enforcement of the First Amendment to the Constitution. As to the rest, it's a bunch of Christians overreacting to a handful of pissy full-time malcontents.

It is a great way to let white Christians feel victimised, though.

 

[BaalsTears]

Not Stockholm Syndrome. Of course we hold fanaticism in the name of Islam accountable, and individuals are responsible for their actions. The point is we don't blame Islam but the actions of individuals.

To call it Stockholm Syndrome would be like calling a black man who opposes calling all white men racist in spite of having been attacked by white suppremacists himself as just a sufferer of Stockhome syndrome.

Interesting logic.

A Muslim who converts to the Bahai faith is a type of apostate. What happens to apostates?

 

[petros]

Well, the first is just the long-delayed enforcement of the First Amendment to the Constitution. As to the rest, it's a bunch of Christians overreacting to a handful of pissy full-time malcontents.

It is a great way to let white Christians feel victimised, though.

Ahh that's what is but it's no oppression by Gov to stuff everything in the closet.

Since there aren't any Kings using the Church to collect taxes, keep records, run schools and hospitals as a quasi Gov that defines the terminology of "Separation of Church and State" doesn't mean anything what you think it does.

 

[BaalsTears]

That's about the same time organized Christianity came under attack in North America. Coinkydink?

Christianity in the West is being marginalized and driven from the public arena by secular zealots. In the Middle East Christianity is being extirpated. However, Christianity has been reborn in Sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia where it is a militant faith. This century will belong to East Asia imo and this militant version of Christianity will rise with it.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Ahh that's what is but it's no oppression by Gov to stuff everything in the closet.

Don't know about your government, but ours isn't stuffing anything anywhere, except Obamacare down our throats.

Most local and state governments decline to have religious displays on public property, which is their choice, as owners of the property. What private individuals do is up to them.

Since there aren't any Kings using the Church to collect taxes, keep records, run schools and hospitals as a quasi Gov that defines the terminology of "Separation of Church and State" doesn't mean anything what you think it does.

I know exactly what it means, having studied it at some length in law school.

Have you considered that all the whining about the "War on Christmas" may be a false flag operation?

 

[petros]

Christianity in the West is being marginalized and driven from the public arena by secular zealots. In the Middle East Christianity is being extirpated. However, Christianity has been reborn in Sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia where it is a militant faith. This century will belong to East Asia imo and this militant version of Christianity will rise with it.

Africa is being Colonized by Asians. China mainly. Africa can feed the world all by it's lonesome.

Don't know about your government, but ours isn't stuffing anything anywhere, except Obamacare down our throats.

Most local and state governments decline to have religious displays on public property, which is their choice, as owners of the property. What private individuals do is up to them.


I know exactly what it means, having studied it at some length in law school.

Have you considered that all the whining about the "War on Christmas" may be a false flag operation?

The Affordable health Act aka Obamacare is Christian?

No wonder the rest of the discussion makes zero sense. You're nuts.

 

[Machjo]

Interesting logic.

A Muslim who converts to the Bahai faith is a type of apostate. What happens to apostates?

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the Iranian interpretation, they are executed. But as you can see, there is dispute about how to interpret those aspects of the Qur'an which supposedly propose the death penalty for apostacy.

Not to mention that as far as Baha'is are concerned, the Baha'i Faith fulfils the Qur'an.

 

[ShintoMale]

You never noticed everything from prayer in school, Christmas trees to Easter bunnies being stuff in the closet?

mandatory organized prayers and sermons in public schools are unconstitutional.

 

[petros]

Are they?