BNP- 58 : anti-fascist loons- 0

[Locutus]

Anti-fascist protestors arrested and packed onto London buses following violent clashes with BNP outside Parliament

• Far-right and opposing groups planned demonstrations for today
• A total of 58 arrests made in London - all anti-fascist campaigners
  
• Soldier Lee Rigby's family have appealed for calm in the wake of his death
• Ed Miliband signs letter condemning rise in anti-Muslim violence

read the score card here:


Anti-fascist protestors arrested and packed onto London buses following violent clashes with BNP outside Parliament | Mail Online

 

[Goober]

Just shows the Fascists had been ordered to stay calm and take it. Good PR- Does not mean they are not Fascist.

 

[tay]

the title of this thread is uplifting. BNP - 58: anti-facist loons -0

I mean, who dosen't want to live in a fascist country................

fascism, political ideology and mass movement that dominated many parts of central, southern, and eastern Europe between 1919 and 1945 and that also had adherents in western Europe, the United States, South Africa, Japan, Latin America, and the Middle East. Europe’s first fascist leader, Benito Mussolini, took the name of his party from the Latin word fasces, which referred to a bundle of elm or birch rods (usually containing an ax) used as a symbol of penal authority in ancient Rome. Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from each other, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation. At the end of World War II, the major European fascist parties were broken up, and in some countries (such as Italy and West Germany) they were officially banned. Beginning in the late 1940s, however, many fascist-oriented parties and movements were founded in Europe as well as in Latin America and South Africa. Although some European “neofascist” groups attracted large followings, especially in Italy and France, none were as influential as the major fascist parties of the interwar period.


fascism (politics) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

 

[Machjo]

Strictly speaking, the BNP is not fascist. Fascism contains three elements: nationalism, militarism, and economic self-sufficiency.

The BNP is actaully relatively non-militarist compared to the main parties. It is extreme nationalist and quite protectionist, but the military side is lacking. far right? Yes. racist? yes. fascist? similar, but not quite.

 

[Colpy]

the title of this thread is uplifting. BNP - 58: anti-facist loons -0

I mean, who dosen't want to live in a fascist country................

fascism, political ideology and mass movement that dominated many parts of central, southern, and eastern Europe between 1919 and 1945 and that also had adherents in western Europe, the United States, South Africa, Japan, Latin America, and the Middle East. Europe’s first fascist leader, Benito Mussolini, took the name of his party from the Latin word fasces, which referred to a bundle of elm or birch rods (usually containing an ax) used as a symbol of penal authority in ancient Rome. Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from each other, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation. At the end of World War II, the major European fascist parties were broken up, and in some countries (such as Italy and West Germany) they were officially banned. Beginning in the late 1940s, however, many fascist-oriented parties and movements were founded in Europe as well as in Latin America and South Africa. Although some European “neofascist” groups attracted large followings, especially in Italy and France, none were as influential as the major fascist parties of the interwar period.


fascism (politics) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

And if you had the slightest idea what you were talking about, you would not accuse the BNP of fascism.........

Might I suggest a introductory course in political philosophy before you again make a fool of yourself???

 

[Blackleaf]

A few years ago there were clashes in the centre of my hometown of Bolton between the EDL and the UAF (Unite Against Fascism, a motley crew of left-wing, anti-white racists and Islamists).

The EDL had turned out for what was supposed to have been a peaceful march but nobody expected the UAF to turn up. It was the UAF who started the trouble, turning what should have been a peaceful march by a group of anti-Islamists into a riot.

All the arrests that were made were of UAF members, including their leader Weyman Bennett.

Those arrests made following clashes with the BNP outside Parliament were also UAF members. The UAF are incapable of demonstrating peacefully.

 

[Machjo]

And if you had the slightest idea what you were talking about, you would not accuse the BNP of fascism.........

Might I suggest a introductory course in political philosophy before you again make a fool of yourself???

I've explained why I don't consider the BNP to be fascist. What's your reason?

 

[Colpy]

I've explained why I don't consider the BNP to be fascist. What's your reason?

The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.
1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.
The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries.

Urban Dictionary: fascism

The BNP fits exactly NONE of the three principles of fascism.

1. They are fighting against ever-increasing gov't control of everything, unlike their opponents..

2. They certainly do not wish to rule the world, unlike the EU they oppose..

3. They have no problem with free speech.....unlike their opponents.

 

[Blackleaf]

I know why the UAF organised a counter-demo to the BNP. The BNP were marching against Islamism following the recent events in Woolwich and were holding up placards saying "HATE PREACHERS OUT". This was a march which was probably supported by millions around the country. The left-wing UAF, though, are full of Islamist members so you can see why they were against the march. It's another example of the Left stifling free speech in this country - speech which goes against the left-wing agenda - following on from those disgraceful scenes a few weeks ago when UKIP leader Nigel Farage was hounded by a group of thugs, members of the Scottish nationalist group Radical Independence, in Edinburgh.

Thankfully, though, not everyone is Scotland are left-wing thugs, as shown by this demo outside the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh by the SDL (Scottish Defence League):

 

[Machjo]

Urban Dictionary: fascism

The BNP fits exactly NONE of the three principles of fascism.

1. They are fighting against ever-increasing gov't control of everything, unlike their opponents..

2. They certainly do not wish to rule the world.

3. They have no problem with free speech.....unlike their opponents.

You're correct on points 2 and three. On point 1 though, they want (or at least wanted last i checked) to make a legal distinction between civic vs ethnic British, with non-ethnic British being offered money to voluntarily leave the country. Now with mixed marriages today, I have no idea if the BNP even considered the complications involved in clearly defining the dividing line between ethnic and civic British, but that aside, certainly such a policy would involve an extremely expensive immigration bureaucracy. Immagine a Briton who is 90% British but has some ancestor far back who was non-British (maybe French?). He marries a Swede and wants to immigrate to Swden. To benefit from this BNP offer he claims to be ethnically non-British. Just immagine the court cases! And that would not involve big governemnt? Or at least big legal bills?

And to clarify, the EU does not wish to rule the world.

 

[Colpy]

You're correct on points 2 and three. On point 1 though, they want (or at least wanted last i checked) to make a legal distinction between civic vs ethnic British, with non-ethnic British being offered money to voluntarily leave the country. Now with mixed marriages today, I have no idea if the BNP even considered the complications involved in clearly defining the dividing line between ethnic and civic British, but that aside, certainly such a policy would involve an extremely expensive immigration bureaucracy. Immagine a Briton who is 90% British but has some ancestor far back who was non-British (maybe French?). He marries a Swede and wants to immigrate to Swden. To benefit from this BNP offer he claims to be ethnically non-British. Just immagine the court cases! And that would not involve big governemnt? Or at least big legal bills?

And to clarify, the EU does not wish to rule the world.

British National Party

I imagine the definition is quite simple....born in the UK or not???

 

[Machjo]

British National Party

I imagine the definition is quite simple....born in the UK or not???

Then you haven't looked much into the BNP. though it hasn't gone into complete legal or technical detail, it's clear that there would be some knd of racial litmus test in their definition, not simply whether you are born there or not.

The BNP is not technically fascist, let alone Nazi, but it does share certain traits in common with Nazis.

 

[Spade]

Just shows the Fascists had been ordered to stay calm and take it. Good PR- Does not mean they are not Fascist.

I guess the difference is they don't have "GOTT MIT UNS" on their belt buckles.

David Cameron attack's 'fascist' BNP - Telegraph

 

[Machjo]

I think we can agree they are quasi-fascist.

 

[Colpy]

I guess the difference is they don't have "GOTT MIT UNS" on their belt buckles.

David Cameron attack's 'fascist' BNP - Telegraph

That would be because you don't have a clue what you are talking about........

Cameron is desperate. He is presiding over the Islamification of a once great nation.

I think we can agree they are quasi-fascist.

Really???

After you just went through the principles of fascism, and even you agreed they were a complete miss on 2 out of three.

(Actually they were a miss on 3 out of 3.)

 

[Machjo]

That would be because you don't have a clue what you are talking about........

Cameron is desperate. He is presiding over the Islamification of a once great nation.



Really???

After you just went through the principles of fascism, and even you agreed they were a complete miss on 2 out of three.

(Actually they were a miss on 3 out of 3.)

That's why I said 'quasi'. According to Merriam-Webster, 'quasi-' means ' having some resemblance usually by possession of certain attributes'. A party which espouses making a legal distinction between 'ethnic' and 'civic' British based on inherited traits, though not strictly fascist, would seem to fall into the category of ' having some resemblance usually by possession of certain attributes', no?

 

[Colpy]

That's why I said 'quasi'. According to Merriam-Webster, 'quasi-' means ' having some resemblance usually by possession of certain attributes'. A party which espouses making a legal distinction between 'ethnic' and 'civic' British based on inherited traits, though not strictly fascist, would seem to fall into the category of ' having some resemblance usually by possession of certain attributes', no?

There is no distinction between "ethnic" and "civic" There is only born in the UK, or born elsewhere........the definition in most nations.

So the BNP bears NO resemblance to fascism.

 

[Spade]

The British National Party | What is the BNP?

 

[Machjo]

There is no distinction between "ethnic" and "civic" There is only born in the UK, or born elsewhere........the definition in most nations.

So the BNP bears NO resemblance to fascism.

You're confusing current British policy with what the BNp intends to introduce:

British National Party

British National Party

A few years ago the rhetoric was a little more direct, but even now you can still read between the lines. It seems it's planning to govern on a more conservative policy than the conservatives,. but the rhetoric comes across as if it wants ideally to swing much farther right than that.

No, not violent, not fascist, but definitely ethnicist.

The British National Party | What is the BNP?

Why not link to the BNP site itself and get it from the horse's mouth? Sure it's toned down its rhetoric over the years, but even now you can see right through its current rhetoric.

Without saying it's fascist, 'far-right' would be an accurate description. And inasmuch as it nolonger is fascist, it does spring from such roots historically, granted. It's rhetoric has softened somewhat over the years.

Without saying it's fascist, 'far-right' would be an accurate description. And inasmuch as it nolonger is fascist, it does spring from such roots historically, granted. It's rhetoric has softened somewhat over the years.

 

[Zipperfish]

A fascist government by definition would have to be a dictatorial or totalitarian one, so it's difficult to call the BNP fascist since it is not their policy that, once elected they will banish democracy and assume dictatorial authority. That said, it wasn't the policy, prior ot being elected, of other fascists who were eventually voted into power (edit...) and went on to be dictators.

That said, the BNP has made overtures in the past to Iran and Gaddaffi's Libya--two very authoritarian states--so I would say the probability is that they would tend towards the authoritarian end of things if they ever achieved power. Not to mention the founder of the BNP remarked that "Mein Kampf is my bible" and the current leader is a Holocaust denier. I wouldn't say it's a stretch that Nazi/fascist sympathies run deep.

I actually don't mind the idea of stopping the subjugation of British culture to overwhelming immigrant presence. However, I also think freedom and democracy are the most important things to maintain. Not sure how committed the BNP are to freedom and democracy.