Circumcision Circumscribed in Germany

[Bar Sinister]

A ruling in Germany has placed a partial ban on circumcision until children are old enough to choose for themselves whether they wish to be circumcised.

From the article:
The court made its ruling in the case of a 4-year-old boy who had been circumcised at the wishes of his Muslim parents. Two days later, he began bleeding profusely and was taken to a hospital — at which point a public prosecutor stepped in and filed charges against the doctor.
The regional court acquitted the doctor, but decided that the operation did in fact constitute bodily injury and that the child’s right to physical integrity and self-determination comes before the parents’ basic rights, including freedom of religion.
The ruling only applies to the area around Cologne, but the backlash has been severe across the country, perhaps reflecting the concern that it could become a ban on the federal level. Leaders in the Muslim community, which numbers about 4 million in Germany, said the ruling was “adversarial to the cause of integration and discriminatory against all the parties concerned.

Read more: German Court Bans Male Circumcision | NewsFeed | TIME.com

German Court Bans Male Circumcision | NewsFeed | TIME.com

 

[Praxius]

Well you might as well ban it altogether if that's the case..... either have it done as an infant when the body heals a lot quicker & better and when the child won't remember anything.... or don't do it at all.

I have been circumcised and my son has been as well, which has stopped his infections he was starting to get quite often (no matter how often we tried to keep the area clean) which was continually causing him pain. Our decision was based 95% on medical reasons.

Since then, he has not had one single infection..... and those infections were a pretty big concern for us considering he was born almost three months premature & already went through a lot in that short period of time. To see him week after week ending up with three days of that week with an infection and him suffering & screaming constantly until he was red in the face and blue in the lips, something had to be done. It mostly was related to an extended foreskin which was collecting a lot more bacteria than normal.

But I have issues with parents getting their children circumcised as the age described above or older..... either do it within the first year or not at all.

When it comes to self-determination, when you become old enough to make the decision, in my opinion, that's already too late to get it done because the healing process will be a lot longer and there is much greater risk of some sort of perm. damage done to the nerves, especially once you enter puberty when the nerves and genitals have already begun to develop for reproduction.

As far as I'm concerned the above parents were in the wrong to get it done so late in the child's life.

When we were going in to discuss the procedure with the doctor a few months back, while waiting for our appointment, a mother came in with her 10 year old son to get it done..... that's completely ridiculous and should never have been done imo.

I know this is a touchy subject for some, but this is my position and I have no issues standing by my position regardless of what others may think.

I don't believe circumcisions should be banned.... but I do believe there should be heavy restrictions applied to the practice so that if it is done, it's done right and done at the right time..... if not.... Don't do it.

I'm not a believer in the whole "Religious Belief" reasons to have it done... if it is needed for medical reasons, then it is justified.... if you're going to do it based on religious reasons alone, then that's wrong.

If you're perfectly fine with foreskin and you don't have to deal with any major issues, leave it alone.

 

[petros]

Ah well no skin off my...uhhh umm err ahh ........Peter.

 

[WLDB]

It was done to me when I was a baby and I dont really have a problem with it. I have plenty of other issues in my childhood to take issue with. Still, I can see why people would get upset over this sort of thing. Parents probably shouldnt be able to make decisions like that for their child unless it is absolutely necessary. Most seem to just do it for cosmetic reasons, which doesnt seem good enough. My mother told me she had it done to me to make it less awkward for her to clean me. So, permanent change to my body to give her an easy time for a year or two. Makes sense!

 

[TenPenny]

Laziness and religion seem to be the main reasons.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Well you might as well ban it altogether if that's the case..... either have it done as an infant when the body heals a lot quicker & better and when the child won't remember anything.... or don't do it at all.

I have been circumcised and my son has been as well, which has stopped his infections he was starting to get quite often (no matter how often we tried to keep the area clean) which was continually causing him pain. Our decision was based 95% on medical reasons.

Since then, he has not had one single infection..... and those infections were a pretty big concern for us considering he was born almost three months premature & already went through a lot in that short period of time. To see him week after week ending up with three days of that week with an infection and him suffering & screaming constantly until he was red in the face and blue in the lips, something had to be done. It mostly was related to an extended foreskin which was collecting a lot more bacteria than normal.

But I have issues with parents getting their children circumcised as the age described above or older..... either do it within the first year or not at all.

When it comes to self-determination, when you become old enough to make the decision, in my opinion, that's already too late to get it done because the healing process will be a lot longer and there is much greater risk of some sort of perm. damage done to the nerves, especially once you enter puberty when the nerves and genitals have already begun to develop for reproduction.

As far as I'm concerned the above parents were in the wrong to get it done so late in the child's life.

When we were going in to discuss the procedure with the doctor a few months back, while waiting for our appointment, a mother came in with her 10 year old son to get it done..... that's completely ridiculous and should never have been done imo.

I know this is a touchy subject for some, but this is my position and I have no issues standing by my position regardless of what others may think.

I don't believe circumcisions should be banned.... but I do believe there should be heavy restrictions applied to the practice so that if it is done, it's done right and done at the right time..... if not.... Don't do it.

I'm not a believer in the whole "Religious Belief" reasons to have it done... if it is needed for medical reasons, then it is justified.... if you're going to do it based on religious reasons alone, then that's wrong.

If you're perfectly fine with foreskin and you don't have to deal with any major issues, leave it alone.

Interesting. My son was not circumcised. He has not had an infection either.

 

[Praxius]

Interesting. My son was not circumcised. He has not had an infection either.

I never said it happens to everybody with foreskin, but some children/people do have a greater chance of having problems more than others.... my son fit in the group with problems.

He of course wasn't a happy camper the night after it was done (I don't think anybody would be) but by the following morning he was acting like nothing happened and after a few days (I think it was something like 5 days) the bandaging could be washed off using warm salt water to let it soak and the bandaging came off on its own..... and that was it.

I'd hate to even think what an older child or even an adult would have to go through if they had it done later in life. I imagine there'd be a lot of bleeding, a hell of a lot of pain for days, and permanent damage to the nerves due to not being able to heal as much as an infant's body can..... especially after puberty when those nerves are developing more for reproduction and becoming finalized as an adult.

As far as I'm aware, my circumcision was done due to religious beliefs and also due to pretty much every male family member having it done. Having no foreskin for all your life would also make it difficult to wrap your head around (pun intended) how to properly clean a foreskin since you never had to do it yourself.... but talking to the doctor before the procedure, we were doing everything right, it was just a problem with how his was "Designed" I guess.

 

[Bar Sinister]

I never said it happens to everybody with foreskin, but some children/people do have a greater chance of having problems more than others.... my son fit in the group with problems.

He of course wasn't a happy camper the night after it was done (I don't think anybody would be) but by the following morning he was acting like nothing happened and after a few days (I think it was something like 5 days) the bandaging could be washed off using warm salt water to let it soak and the bandaging came off on its own..... and that was it.

I'd hate to even think what an older child or even an adult would have to go through if they had it done later in life. I imagine there'd be a lot of bleeding, a hell of a lot of pain for days, and permanent damage to the nerves due to not being able to heal as much as an infant's body can..... especially after puberty when those nerves are developing more for reproduction and becoming finalized as an adult.

As far as I'm aware, my circumcision was done due to religious beliefs and also due to pretty much every male family member having it done. Having no foreskin for all your life would also make it difficult to wrap your head around (pun intended) how to properly clean a foreskin since you never had to do it yourself.... but talking to the doctor before the procedure, we were doing everything right, it was just a problem with how his was "Designed" I guess.

I actually don't have a problem with the procedure if it is medically required. But I do have a problem with having it performed without any anesthetic. No d I care much for the blanket use of the practice or as part of archaic religious rituals.

 

[shadowshiv]

Well you might as well ban it altogether if that's the case..... either have it done as an infant when the body heals a lot quicker & better and when the child won't remember anything.... or don't do it at all.

I have been circumcised and my son has been as well, which has stopped his infections he was starting to get quite often (no matter how often we tried to keep the area clean) which was continually causing him pain. Our decision was based 95% on medical reasons.

Since then, he has not had one single infection..... and those infections were a pretty big concern for us considering he was born almost three months premature & already went through a lot in that short period of time. To see him week after week ending up with three days of that week with an infection and him suffering & screaming constantly until he was red in the face and blue in the lips, something had to be done. It mostly was related to an extended foreskin which was collecting a lot more bacteria than normal.

But I have issues with parents getting their children circumcised as the age described above or older..... either do it within the first year or not at all.

When it comes to self-determination, when you become old enough to make the decision, in my opinion, that's already too late to get it done because the healing process will be a lot longer and there is much greater risk of some sort of perm. damage done to the nerves, especially once you enter puberty when the nerves and genitals have already begun to develop for reproduction.

As far as I'm concerned the above parents were in the wrong to get it done so late in the child's life.

When we were going in to discuss the procedure with the doctor a few months back, while waiting for our appointment, a mother came in with her 10 year old son to get it done..... that's completely ridiculous and should never have been done imo.

I know this is a touchy subject for some, but this is my position and I have no issues standing by my position regardless of what others may think.

I don't believe circumcisions should be banned.... but I do believe there should be heavy restrictions applied to the practice so that if it is done, it's done right and done at the right time..... if not.... Don't do it.

I'm not a believer in the whole "Religious Belief" reasons to have it done... if it is needed for medical reasons, then it is justified.... if you're going to do it based on religious reasons alone, then that's wrong.

If you're perfectly fine with foreskin and you don't have to deal with any major issues, leave it alone.

First off, congratulations on the birth of your son Praxius(first I've heard of it)!

Secondly, isn't phomorsis(I can't remember how to spell it!) something that affects people with their foreskins still intact? It doesn't affect them all of course, but it could be a painful thing to have, couldn't it? This second part is more directed towards TenPenny.

 

[tay]

The Danish Medical Association has recommended that no boys under the age of 18 be circumcised

The association released its recommendation on Friday, saying that circumcision should be “an informed, personal choice” that young men should make for themselves.

In a press release, the group said that when parents have their male children circumcised, it robs the boys of the ability to make decisions about their own bodies and their own cultural and religious beliefs.

http://www.thelocal.dk/20161205/danish-doctors-come-out-against-circumcision

 

[Hoof Hearted]

How come the lotion they used to advertise in the back of Girlie Magazines to make your knob bigger...never made your hand bigger.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Well, It's not going to affect many Jews in Germany, will it?

 

[darkbeaver]

Who buys foreskins?

 

[Colpy]

A ruling in Germany has placed a partial ban on circumcision until children are old enough to choose for themselves whether they wish to be circumcised.

From the article:
The court made its ruling in the case of a 4-year-old boy who had been circumcised at the wishes of his Muslim parents. Two days later, he began bleeding profusely and was taken to a hospital — at which point a public prosecutor stepped in and filed charges against the doctor.
The regional court acquitted the doctor, but decided that the operation did in fact constitute bodily injury and that the child’s right to physical integrity and self-determination comes before the parents’ basic rights, including freedom of religion.
The ruling only applies to the area around Cologne, but the backlash has been severe across the country, perhaps reflecting the concern that it could become a ban on the federal level. Leaders in the Muslim community, which numbers about 4 million in Germany, said the ruling was “adversarial to the cause of integration and discriminatory against all the parties concerned.

Read more: German Court Bans Male Circumcision | NewsFeed | TIME.com

German Court Bans Male Circumcision | NewsFeed | TIME.com

For once, I agree with the Muslims.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Who buys foreskins?

This was on the superyacht Christna O, that Aristotle Onasis owned:

. The barstools in Ari's Bar retain the original upholstery crafted from a very soft, fine leather made from the foreskins of whales.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_O

 

[darkbeaver]

That's an interesting factoid. Onasis had a good time while he was here I bet.

 

[Cannuck]

The Danish Medical Association has recommended that no boys under the age of 18 be circumcised

The American Academy of Pediatrics says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks.

Too many people caught up in the religious argument.

 

[Curious Cdn]

That's an interesting factoid. Onasis had a good time while he was here I bet.

Another jnteresting factoid is that the Christna O started out life as HMCS Stormont, was built at Canadian Vickers in Montreal and was part of the Normandy landings. Not a bad ending as a giant-sized gin palace ...

 

[davesmom]

The American Academy of Pediatrics says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks.

Too many people caught up in the religious argument.

For once I agree with you (and the American Academy of Pediatrics)


I think all parents should have their baby boys circumcised within a week or two of birth. At that age it is a simple procedure, done quickly and heals quickly.
Infection can and do occur in adult males regardless of careful cleansing and when they do it is very painful. I saw a couple of males in their twenties who had to be circumcised due to infections. At that age they have to be hospitalized, anesthetized and healing is slower and painful.
If there are complications after an infant is circumcised, it is because the doctor didn't do it properly or the aftercare is negligent.
There is a procedure for the surgery on infants and if followed and if aftercare is attended to, there will be no complications.
If the decision is left to the child, by the time he is old enough to make an informed decision it will be too late for the procedure to be simple.
I think circumcision should be considered in the same way as vaccinations; it prevents the chance of future difficulties.


It is interesting to note too that most women find circumcised males more sexually attractive.

 

[darkbeaver]

Isn't foreskin tissue used in flu vaccines?

And lipstick.