"Reverse globalization"?

[Machjo]

I was just watching on the news today that owing to rising fuel costs, access to resources, and rising incomes in China, some manufacturing plants are moving to Canada... from China!

I knew this would happen sooner or later. So, is free trade really that bad?

Also, I'd say another benefit of free trade is that by having raised the standard of living in China, it's likely to also reduce interest on the part of many Chinese to come to Canada. No, I'm not saying no Chinese will be interested in coming to Canada, but just that there won't be as many as before.

 

[damngrumpy]

I have never been in favour of free trade, fair trade yes, free trade no. I am also opposed to
the WTO and its regulations. I am in favour of Canada being the master of it own house.
The beauty of it all is, the latest round of the WTO will be voted on in June and it is dead on
arrival according to trade negotiators. The plan B backup plan will also fail. Maybe we can
go back to economic nationalism which I do support. I am not a social government nationalist
but economically I am. I believe we need to use the national resources of this country for our
use and benefit first. One price for Canadians and a higher one for the rest of the world.
I don't think we will ever see a return to those days however its nice to see some of the jobs
coming home to Canada and I hope more will return to North America.

 

[lone wolf]

If class structure and hoarding of wealth in China works anywhere near the same as it does here, you can almost guarantee the better off will want to be as far away from the gap as possible.

 

[Machjo]

Well, it would seem that free trade has in fact begun to accomplish what many decades of protectionism had faield to accomplish: the raising of the standard of living of the poor.

According to the new program this evening, factory workers in China are starting to expect higher wages owing to labour shortages in some industries. The left has wanted protectionism ostensibly to help the poor in other countries. Well, it seems free trade is now slowly accomplishing what protectionism was supposed to have accomplished.

Now that wages are going up in China along with gas prices, I'm sure no one is complaining now about jobs moving back to Canada, right?

Now I could see very moderate 'protectionism' in the form of raising gas taxes let's say. But beyond that, I think tarifs and quotas would go too far. Poorer countries deserve an equal chance too, right.

 

[petros]

We have a chopstick factory in Regina. Apparently poplar (aspen) makes really good chopsticks. It's been around for about 20 years.

Western General Trading Ltd.
836A Fleury St
Regina
Canada
(306) 569-1626
Listed in: Office > Boxes Wooden directory
Wooden chopsticks medical hobby and match sticks coffee stir sticks ice cream sticks and spoons.

 

[Said1]

We have a chopstick factory in Regina. Apparently poplar (aspen) makes really good chopsticks. It's been around for about 20 years.

Western General Trading Ltd.
836A Fleury St
Regina
Canada
(306) 569-1626
Listed in: Office > Boxes Wooden directory
Wooden chopsticks medical hobby and match sticks coffee stir sticks ice cream sticks and spoons.

That's hilarious.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Oh yeah, the big deal on CTV was a fricken popsicle stick factory moving here from China. From what I could see the place is 90% automated so it is probably just the shipping costs due to the fuel prices that fostered the move.

Well, it would seem that free trade has in fact begun to accomplish what many decades of protectionism had faield to accomplish: the raising of the standard of living of the poor.

According to the new program this evening, factory workers in China are starting to expect higher wages owing to labour shortages in some industries. The left has wanted protectionism ostensibly to help the poor in other countries. Well, it seems free trade is now slowly accomplishing what protectionism was supposed to have accomplished.

Now that wages are going up in China along with gas prices, I'm sure no one is complaining now about jobs moving back to Canada, right?

Now I could see very moderate 'protectionism' in the form of raising gas taxes let's say. But beyond that, I think tarifs and quotas would go too far. Poorer countries deserve an equal chance too, right.

Actually protectionism is supposed to raise the standard of living for the poor at home. Free trade has done that somewhere else while the amount of people in our own country living in poverty or close to it has risen and the wealth gap has gotten wider.

I'm so glad that China has reaped the benefits of our society becoming worse. I say f*ck free trade!!!

 

[Mathiew]

I don't think China can do as well as we do even with the insane result of free-trade.

 

[TenPenny]

I didn't know we had free trade with China.

 

[Mathiew]

I didn't know we had free trade with China.

It is not what I meant.

 

[Dixie Cup]

My husband works as a Maintenance Technician and on boilers for heating systems. He says it's getting harder and harder to find some brass fittings for parts that are made in N. America since most are now made in China. The problem is that the stuff from China "sucks" and the parts frequently break. So when he needs parts and finds ones that are made here, he stocks up because they last 100 times longer.

I tried buying a slow cooker made in N.A. - Not a chance in hell could i find one - all made in China! Extremely depressing.

JMO

 

[CDNBear]

My husband works as a Maintenance Technician and on boilers for heating systems. He says it's getting harder and harder to find some brass fittings for parts that are made in N. America since most are now made in China. The problem is that the stuff from China "sucks" and the parts frequently break. So when he needs parts and finds ones that are made here, he stocks up because they last 100 times longer.

I tried buying a slow cooker made in N.A. - Not a chance in hell could i find one - all made in China! Extremely depressing.

JMO

Your husband isn't the only one, I actually have to ask for MIG tips made in NA when I go into a welding supply shop. The ones out of China just don't have the stamina the NA ones do. The quality of copper is absolutely atrocious. You can actually tell the difference when tightening them in place. The NA ones don't score as bad under the pressure of my pliers, while the Chinese ones do.

 

[Machjo]

I didn't know we had free trade with China.

More than we used to in relative terms at least. Before we barely traded at all with China.

Oh yeah, the big deal on CTV was a fricken popsicle stick factory moving here from China. From what I could see the place is 90% automated so it is probably just the shipping costs due to the fuel prices that fostered the move.


Actually protectionism is supposed to raise the standard of living for the poor at home. Free trade has done that somewhere else while the amount of people in our own country living in poverty or close to it has risen and the wealth gap has gotten wider.

I'm so glad that China has reaped the benefits of our society becoming worse. I say f*ck free trade!!!

We've benefited too. And as for the poor getting poorer, that has nothing to do with free trade. If we want to help the poor, and I mean genuinely help them, then let's improve education for all, raise taxes on resources to pay for it, and democratize the workplace. The two aren't exclusive. who ever said that we must choose between free trade and quality education, democratization, and a social safety net for all. Swden seems to have both within the EU, why can't we with free trade?

 

[captain morgan]

We've benefited too. And as for the poor getting poorer, that has nothing to do with free trade. If we want to help the poor, and I mean genuinely help them, then let's improve education for all, raise taxes on resources to pay for it, and democratize the workplace. The two aren't exclusive. who ever said that we must choose between free trade and quality education, democratization, and a social safety net for all. Swden seems to have both within the EU, why can't we with free trade?

There are some 'cart before the horse' issues here Machjo.

Are the poor getting poorer because they are making less, or is it a relative measure because other demographics making more and widening the gap on a relative basis?

As for education, I have to wonder how those nations/cultures that have very limited funds for education (per capita/student) consistently out perform Canada and other Western nations. The Chinese and the Indians (Koreans too) spend far less per capita in education, yet they surpass Canadian students consistently.

My question is this.. Is simply throwing more money at the issue the best solution?

 

[Machjo]

There are some 'cart before the horse' issues here Machjo.

Are the poor getting poorer because they are making less, or is it a relative measure because other demographics making more and widening the gap on a relative basis?

As for education, I have to wonder how those nations/cultures that have very limited funds for education (per capita/student) consistently out perform Canada and other Western nations. The Chinese and the Indians (Koreans too) spend far less per capita in education, yet they surpass Canadian students consistently.

My question is this.. Is simply throwing more money at the issue the best solution?

You're right that money alone doesn't solve the problem. As for the Chinese being poor, consider that that also means education is less expensive there, and also culturally many Chinese parents are education fanatics, spending nearly all they have in time and money on their children's education. That is a rare quality among Canadian parents.

 

[captain morgan]

The part that I will question relates to "why" the education in China is less expensive. By in large, the capital costs associated with facilities (bricks & mortor) are 1-time costs that can be absorbed relatively easily. It is the on-going operating costs that really make the difference. That said, is there a dramatic difference in the chinese operating costs (relative economies inclusive), is the level/quality of instruction superior?... Clearly, I do not know the answer to this, but the question needs to be asked.

Lastly, the comment about the role of the parents (Chinese) makes sense, however, perhaps the message here is that Canadian families desperately need to take a page from the Chinese culture and take more direct, personal responsibility.

 

[Machjo]

The part that I will question relates to "why" the education in China is less expensive. By in large, the capital costs associated with facilities (bricks & mortor) are 1-time costs that can be absorbed relatively easily. It is the on-going operating costs that really make the difference. That said, is there a dramatic difference in the chinese operating costs (relative economies inclusive), is the level/quality of instruction superior?... Clearly, I do not know the answer to this, but the question needs to be asked.

Salaries are lower overall, so the cost of living is cheaper, and therefore even professors accept lower salaries compared to their counterparts in more expensive countries. Sure their salaries are still quite high relative to the average in their country, but again, it's relative to their country.

Lastly, the comment about the role of the parents (Chinese) makes sense, however, perhaps the message here is that Canadian families desperately need to take a page from the Chinese culture and take more direct, personal responsibility.

Agreed in a big way. For crying out loud, in China even working class parents send their children to private schools on weekends and holidays to study English and other subjects. How often do we see that here in Canada?

But remember that if Canadian parents were prepared to make such a sacrifice, they'd have to give up on the RV, the boat, the big suburban house, etc. priorities have to be made.

 

[Tonington]

As for education, I have to wonder how those nations/cultures that have very limited funds for education (per capita/student) consistently out perform Canada and other Western nations. The Chinese and the Indians (Koreans too) spend far less per capita in education, yet they surpass Canadian students consistently.

My question is this.. Is simply throwing more money at the issue the best solution?

It's not quite that cut and dry. Test scores determine which schools the Chinese students can go to. Score well, and you go to better schools. Per capita costs are lower, but the students who come over here scored very well back home, and the Chinese government pays a lot of money to educate them over here. A girl in my class even had a credit card issued by the Chinese government. They very very generous with her.

She is now doing her Masters in animal nutrition at the University of Saskatchewan.

 

[captain morgan]

It's not quite that cut and dry. Test scores determine which schools the Chinese students can go to. Score well, and you go to better schools. Per capita costs are lower, but the students who come over here scored very well back home, and the Chinese government pays a lot of money to educate them over here. A girl in my class even had a credit card issued by the Chinese government. They very very generous with her.

She is now doing her Masters in animal nutrition at the University of Saskatchewan.

Fair enough, but (in my opinion), the underlying issue(s) still remain. The relative costs in educating the local populations represent a considerable similarity when analyzing the 2 cultures... For the sake of clarity, I am not suggesting that the costs are the same, but the relative costs (via taxes) are what is in question.

In Canada, education takes up a very significant % of the provincial operating budget; compare that to India or China (I don't know the numbers but am assuming that this % is lower)... Why are we not getting a better return for our education dollars in Canada?

Salaries are lower overall, so the cost of living is cheaper, and therefore even professors accept lower salaries compared to their counterparts in more expensive countries. Sure their salaries are still quite high relative to the average in their country, but again, it's relative to their country.

No offence Machjo, but you kinda contradict your own position in this post. At some point, we must be able to determine the value per dollar per student in each system that we are considering.

 

[Machjo]

No offence Machjo, but you kinda contradict your own position in this post. At some point, we must be able to determine the value per dollar per student in each system that we are considering.

How did I contradict myself? Sure I think all children ought to have access to a quality education. but you don't need protectionism to do that.