China Calls For Urgent talks re North Norea

[Kreskin]

FoxNews.com - China Calls for Urgent Talks on North Korea

The time for talking is getting shorter. Senator John McCain is using "Regime Change" language. The Chinese can do it diplomatically or end up with a full scale war on their doorstep.

 

[Machjo]

McCain is an idiot. The last thing China wants on its border is a complete collapse of the North Korean economy. If that happens, who knows what could happen to the nukes, not to mention a litkely refugee crisis on China's border.

And as for McCain blaming China for not controlling North Korea, that's absolutely ridiculous. Where in the world did he get the idea that North Korea took its orders from Beijing. Beijing ha been trying to talke North Korea into a more conciliatory stance. China could just as easily turn around and blame the US for not being able to control North Korea. They're not the same country.

Now what I could see China do would be to rescind its formal alliance with North Korea while still maintaining an official friendly status. It would send North Korea the message that China wants to be friends, but cannot ally itself with a rogue state. It could be a way to send North Korea a message without necessarily causing North Korea to press the panic button, both metaphorically and literally.

 

[Kreskin]

The little Hitler regime in NK has to go. Either peacefully or by annihilation.

 

[Machjo]

Actually, I could even see Canada playng a role here. If we consider that China is just as sick and tired of North Korea as the rest of us are, but that the main concern is with the fallout from a collapse of North Korea's social structure (after all, unless a regime change goes smoothly, you're bound to end up with anarchy, and you don't want that in a nuclear state!), then I can see Canada offering a kind of olive branch whereby if China withdraw from any formal alliance with North Korea, that Canada will offically establish friendly relations with North Korea.

Before anyone jumps on my words here, we need to consider the difference between a friendly and an allied status. As allies, we are bound to one another by treaty. As friends, we do look out for one anothers' interests, but unlike in an alliance, we won't condone everything they do. If that happened, North Korea would gain a friend but ose an ally. This would make it such that North Korea could gain more by working with us (new friends can mean new trading partners) than against us (without allies, it has no one to fight on its side, unless of course it's unjustly attacked, which is a whole different matter).

As a result, standing without allies, North Korea would tone down the rhetoric a little. On the other hand, with a new friend in Canada (referring of course to friendship with the North Korean people and not necessarily approving of the regime), more open tourism opportunities could open up for both dies, making it easier to travel, etc. This would also help promote an exchange of ideas at the grassroots which would bound o influence their culture gradually.

The little Hitler regime in NK has to go. Either peacefully or by annihilation.

Sure, but I don't think its neighbours would be too happy to have nuclear clouds floating around in their skies. We can only control the weather so much. Consider too that many South Koreans still consider North Koreans as part of their national family.

Just ook at Chernobyl. Let's not forget the cold war was still on then, yet when nuclear clouds started blowing about, just look at how quickly all differences were temporarily dropped out of common self interest on all sides. Regardless what all sides thought of one another, they knew that it was in the personal best interest of each nation to clog up that melted reactor. I somehow don't think South Korea and Japan and China and Russia would appreciate a nuclear cloud in their midst.

 

[Kreskin]

Well South Korea appears to have enough.

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — South Korea's president on Monday took responsibility for failing to protect his citizens from a deadly North Korean artillery attack last week, vowing tough consequences for any future aggression and expressing outrage over the "ruthlessness of the North Korean regime."

Read more: SKorea declares front-line island 'off-limits' - FoxNews.com

 

[Machjo]

Well South Korea appears to have enough.

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — South Korea's president on Monday took responsibility for failing to protect his citizens from a deadly North Korean artillery attack last week, vowing tough consequences for any future aggression and expressing outrage over the "ruthlessness of the North Korean regime."

Read more: SKorea declares front-line island 'off-limits' - FoxNews.com

If it's a South-Korean-led or UN-led war, I could see it being a little more cautious and better-planned, the reason being that South Korea would have a vested interest in ensuring that any war with North Korea minimize damage as much as possible on both sides since after the war, South Korea is the one that will be stuck with clearing the mess; or if it's UN-led, South Korea, China and Japan, the ones who will be most affected by this war, would have a voice and so would ensure that the war is fought responsibly. Put it into the hands of the US, and they couldn't care less. Just look at how the Iraq War had caused some tensions between Iraq and Turkey over the Kurds, or how the Afghan war is now spilling over into Pakistan and with Iran facing an ever growing drug trade!

The reaon for this is that the US is not on the Iraqi or Afghan border and therefore does not have a vested interest in minimizing damage to neighbouring states. Korea, Japan, and China certainly would. So whereas a US-led war would go in weapons blazing, a UN-led or South-Korean-led war would be much more calculating and pre-planned, with much clearer objectives in mind.

So while I agree that North Korea's neighbours want the regime removed, they certainly won't approve of the US' hawkish stance of going in rifles blazing and letting the chips fall where they may after the US goes back home leavng it up to the region to clean up the mess.

 

[petros]

The last thing China wants on its border is a complete collapse of the North Korean economy. If that happens, who knows what could happen to the nukes, not to mention a litkely refugee crisis on China's border.

You should read what I've been posting all along. It's exactly what China wants and where China is going to go. The US is in super huge debt to China therefore S.Korea (S.Korea is backed by US financially) is in debt to China.

N.Korea is just a bonus along the way into the Seoul of the matter.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea'

Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea' | World news | The Guardian

 

[The Old Medic]

Talking with North Korea is exactly what they want. They pull these outrageous "stunts", and then get what they want from the appeasers. Over time, their "stunts" have escalated, killing more people, and yet the North get rewarded each and every tie they do something like this.

I get such a kick out of the appeasers. "Oh my God, we can't have war. Give them whatever they want."

I say, bomb the North Koreans back to the stone age, and have done with it. Tell China that if they want a Nuclear war, stick their nose into the affair.

 

[Akubra]

Talking with North Korea is exactly what they want. They pull these outrageous "stunts", and then get what they want from the appeasers. Over time, their "stunts" have escalated, killing more people, and yet the North get rewarded each and every tie they do something like this.

I get such a kick out of the appeasers. "Oh my God, we can't have war. Give them whatever they want."

I say, bomb the North Koreans back to the stone age, and have done with it. Tell China that if they want a Nuclear war, stick their nose into the affair.

Just what do they get from appeasers? More sanctions?

Yea, bomb them back to the stone age but can you give justification for doing that, I doubt it.

 

[Bar Sinister]

There will be no war on China's doorstep unless China starts the war. North Korea is in China's sphere of influence and China would no more allow an invasion of North Korea than the US would allow China to invade Mexico. As for John McCain, he is yesterday's man, but he keeps trying to push himself into the spotlight by advocating outmoded policies. There is a simple way for China to deal with North Korea; move a few hundred thousand troops up to the Yalu River and then demand Kim Jong Il show up in Bejing for a lesson in proper behaviour.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

NK made a major miscalculation by killing civilians in an unprovoked attack. The SK pop is now in favour of tough policies from the govt. the next time NK attacks the south there will be a strong response from SK, if the polls mean anything. Containment here could be a problem as both sides worry about "face". A large issue in Asian cultures.

Could you imagine the Canadian govt doing nothing if another country attacked a town, and killed civilians? Just poo poo the collatoral damage? Not likely.

 

[Kreskin]

If push comes to shove the Americans will blow the smithereens out of NK. It will be like shooting fish in a barrel. Mr Il will be in one those Saddam-like spider holes in no time.

 

[gopher]

''McCain is an idiot. The last thing China wants on its border is a complete collapse of the North Korean economy.''

And the last thing Japan wants is nuclear fallout. It, too, has been negotiating with these sides and McCain needs to stick his nose somewhere else.

 

[damngrumpy]

China more than any other country needs economic stability right now in order to get its
money back. Can you imagine what would happen inside China if the world economy
failed? China would have an angry middle class workforce without work and with idle
hands there could be hell to pay. For decades, China did control North Korea, within a
little pond of the world. China has other interests now. Imagine, would you like to spend
your time controlling a little fascist country under Kim or would you rather be creating
jobs and a economy second to none in the world? China is a dictatorship true, but one
could hardly call it Communist in the true sence of the word. China will abandoned the
North Koreans for two reasons, One it is expedient to do so and secondly no one wants
crazy people living next door to them no matter how long the relationship has been.

 

[Akubra]

"For decades, China did control North Korea, within a
little pond of the world. "

I cant imagine when that was, it must have been centuries ago I think.

"China will abandoned the North Koreans for two reasons, One it is expedient to do so and secondly no one wants
crazy people living next door to them no matter how long the relationship has been."

Well you got part of that right, the bit about crazy people living next door, the biggest incentive I see for China to preserve the DPRK is that if Pyongyang fell there would be US bases on the border of China.

If push comes to shove the Americans will blow the smithereens out of NK. It will be like shooting fish in a barrel. Mr Il will be in one those Saddam-like spider holes in no time.

Errrrrrr.... I would not like to take bets on that. The North Koreans have been digging in, deep, really deep, for more than half a century and the best protection against any attack is dirt and rock overhead. Besides, all the while any bombardment is going on the guns on the border would be firing on Seoul, there are reputed to be a considerable number of these each well dug in and they will continue firing until the last shell is spent or the last gun and crew destroyed.

NK made a major miscalculation by killing civilians in an unprovoked attack...

Unprovoked? Of course many would say that while conveniently forgetting that the ROK held live firing military exercises in a disputed area which would have to have been calculated to be provocative.

 

[damngrumpy]

Actually it would not be an American Base, it would become a democratic part of the world
after several decades of building a real society there and educating people to the standards
of the real world. China did control North Korea, right after the second world war. In terms
of the real outside world it was a backwater as it were. North Korea has since built itself a
bomb and now things are different, however North Korea is still dependent of China for a
number of things like power. China is the only real window left open to that country.
North Korea is expendable in the terms of international commerce and within the next few
years Korea will fall anyway, and I mean it will fall into chaos. Kim will be gone and the kid
is no leader, in fact its another case of putting Gilligan in charge of the island.
When people see that leadership vacuum and the inside military squabbles boil over into the
street all hell will break loose.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Unprovoked? Of course many would say that while conveniently forgetting that the ROK held live firing military exercises in a disputed area which would have to have been calculated to be provocative.

The old rules were just to attack military targets and the general population shrugged. Oh yeah, those live fire attacks displease NK, but they occurred because now SK feels provoked. Don't get bogged down in the tit for tat details, things appear to be escalating. SK had decided it as been provoked to a degree that permits it to change the rules. NK will likely get peeved at this because it always made the rules. I mean, for so long, everything went Nk's way, they were winning, and we all like to keep winning.

To become a great leader Kim Jung Un needs some actiicity and victories. Doing nothing does not make you a great "general".

 

[Akubra]

Actually it would not be an American Base, it would become a democratic part of the world
after several decades of building a real society there and educating people to the standards
of the real world.

Just like Kabul and Baghdad are shining examples of democracy eh?

China did control North Korea, right after the second world war.

That surely is BS, Pyongyang followed Moscow, not Beijing.

In terms of the real outside world it was a backwater as it were. North Korea has since built itself a
bomb and now things are different, however North Korea is still dependent of China for a
number of things like power.

Are you sure about the power from China?

China is the only real window left open to that country.

Any country can trade and deal with North Korea if they wish.

North Korea is expendable in the terms of international commerce and within the next few
years Korea will fall anyway, and I mean it will fall into chaos.

Certain people were very convinced it would fall into chaos almost 20 years ago.

Kim will be gone and the kid is no leader, in fact its another case of putting Gilligan in charge of the island.
When people see that leadership vacuum and the inside military squabbles boil over into the
street all hell will break loose.

Yes, they said that when his grandfather died too.

Dont forget that just about everything most people know about the DPRK comes from the same people who told us about the WMDs in Iraq.

The old rules were just to attack military targets and the general population shrugged.

The most biting attacks on North Korea in the last few decades have been savage sanctions which always hit the general population hardest.

Oh yeah, those live fire attacks displease NK, but they occurred because now SK feels provoked. Don't get bogged down in the tit for tat details, things appear to be escalating. SK had decided it as been provoked to a degree that permits it to change the rules. NK will likely get peeved at this because it always made the rules. I mean, for so long, everything went Nk's way, they were winning, and we all like to keep winning.

Most of the countries of the world including almost all those involved in the Korean War have officially made peace with Pyongyang but one country likes to keep on and uses considerable pressure to keep others from getting too close to North Korea.

Just Google Kedo, do try to choose some impartial sources, and you will see how North Korea has been 'winning'.

To become a great leader Kim Jung Un needs some actiicity and victories. Doing nothing does not make you a great "general".

That sure worked for GWB so why not KJU?

 

[Omicron]

McCain is being a moron. Given his home state, it says his ratings are slipping and he's feeling pinched to pushing himself up in the polls.

Do you have any idea how many prosperous schools for rich South Koreans are being operated by China where the theme of the schools is to be as much like as if they were in California as possible, English and all?

North Korea is a tiresome political thorn to China like how Israel can be to the US.

Leave it alone, and it's China's problem.

In case you didn't know, the greatest issue over there right now is North Koreans sneaking into China for the greater freedom, which means if others would just stay out of it, the only arguing going on over there right now would be between China and North Korea.