Just a thought: Do we have too much freedom? is there such a thing?

[Chiliagon]

now, I am not saying necessarily that we have too much freedom.. I am putting out there the question based on some things that I have observed and am commenting on so please dont' shoot me yet.

I have wondered about this a few times, mostly whenever someone in their "special car" drives by and disturbs the entire block.

Why can't the Govt regulate companies that design and build the parts that make cars and trucks so damn loud?

make a deal with all companies that build cars for Canadians to design a device that prevents private companies and the owners of the vehicles from tampering and installing these "noise makers"..

i was thinking, since they have all these fancy computers and new computer chips.. they could find a way to create a sensor in the vehicle that would disable the engine from starting.. sorta like the new key-chip technology that prevents a car from starting without the key.

so if a private company were to attempt to install one of these devices, they couldn't because the part they are removing would have the other half of the matching computer chip needed for the car to run, so they can't take it out or else the Car can't start.


NOW, is something like this, an infringement on our Freedom? or is this something that is going too far with freedom.

Because if you really think about it, these "noise maker" parts as I call them are disturbing everyone elses rights and freedom to having a quiet evening and not being grossly disturbed by some stupid car revving their engine.


Now what about this with other devices..

putting computer chips in parts that need to match in order to allow them to work, to prevent customers from tampering with them?

 

[karrie]

I think if a government writes and enforces a by-law, that's plenty. To run around trying to make manufacturers also attempt to enforce said by-law, is a waste of resources.

 

[Chiliagon]

I don't know if I'd call it a waste of resources. if you are trying to enforce a Bylaw, the simplest way of doing it is to make the devices only able to function with what its built with. any attempt to manipulate your vehicle results in it unable to work.


the only problems I can see is down the road when that part needs to be repaired or replaced. It would make it impossible to go to a local shop because they'd have to then have a computer that can move that chip to the new part.. or they just wont' be able to do the work anymore.

 

[Walter]

Answer to thread title: No and no, but it only works if everyone is altruistic.

 

[petros]

There is a device already available to stop excessive noise. The telephone. Use it after 11PM and before 7AM and you might have some success.

 

[mentalfloss]

Yes it is possible to have too much freedom, but right now we're living in a society where there are still crucial freedoms that aren't being given. Censorship, marijuana, prostitution, gay marriage, racism, etc.

Security and surveillance in contrast with privacy is something that has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

 

[Chiliagon]

Answer to thread title: No and no, but it only works if everyone is altruistic.

I dunno, it's not that simple.

nothing is black and white anymore.

Our society has taken Freedom to do whatever we like to a point where they are doing things that to some are too much and yet we can't do anything because they'll cry out "you're taking away our right to free enterprise!"

one thing always battles another.

the guy who drives the very loud car in the neighborhood at 12am at night, disturbs those who are sleeping... has a cop come by and fine him for it, he complains that he has a right to have his car noisy whenever he wants, yet our freedom to have a quiet neighborhood and sleep without disturbance can be taken away?

Yes it is possible to have too much freedom, but right now we're living in a society where there are still crucial freedoms that aren't being given. Censorship, marijuana, prostitution, etc.

I for one don't believe that Marijuana and Prostitution should be legal.

drugs that are not legal for good reasons should stay illegal.

 

[mentalfloss]

I for one don't believe that Marijuana and Prostitution should be legal.

drugs that are not legal for good reasons should stay illegal.

Well there you go. There's the answer to your main question about freedom. All of our values mesh to create this result. Voter support and government involvement determines exactly that. There's more of you than there is of me. At least the way it is supposed to be.

They just legalized pot in California, but it was in the name of helping the 'economy' rather than instilling a social freedom: http://www.manolith.com/2010/10/01/arnold-schwarzenegger-legalizes-pot-possession/

Going back to your 'noise-maker' idea, you have to consider whether that is a 'priority freedom'. I think that's what Government does - or at least tries to do, heh - when they pass laws. Does the noise pollution annoy a significant portion of the public or is it damaging enough to warrant a new bill?

 

[Chiliagon]

well, they have shown yes that Pot does have some good effects medically but they have also shown that Pot can create problems for people who use it recreationally. it impairs them for things like Driving and coherancy.

so why would you make something legal that can impair your ability to make decisions and driving??

 

[petros]

well, they have shown yes that Pot does have some good effects medically but they have also shown that Pot can create problems for people who use it recreationally. it impairs them for things like Driving and coherancy.

so why would you make something legal that can impair your ability to make decisions and driving??

Why is it listed as a "performance enhancing drug" when it comes to sports?

 

[Chiliagon]

Why is it listed as a "performance enhancing drug" when it comes to sports?

not sure.. may have something to do with helping with injuries.. like taking away the pain more.

sorta like advil. but in an illegal way.

Well there you go. There's the answer to your main question about freedom. All of our values mesh to create this result. Voter support and government involvement determines exactly that. There's more of you than there is of me. At least the way it is supposed to be.

They just legalized pot in California, but it was in the name of helping the 'economy' rather than instilling a social freedom: Arnold Schwarzenegger Legalizes Pot Possession | Manolith

Going back to your 'noise-maker' idea, you have to consider whether that is a 'priority freedom'. I think that's what Government does - or at least tries to do, heh - when they pass laws. Does the noise pollution annoy a significant portion of the public or is it damaging enough to warrant a new bill?

well, I think that more people are afraid to make a statement, take a stand on something for fearing retribution.

similar to why when someone is being beaten up in a crowd and nobody does anything.

 

[lone wolf]

Control is a great thing when it works in your favour.

 

[petros]

not sure.. may have something to do with helping with injuries.. like taking away the pain more.

sorta like advil. but in an illegal way.




well, I think that more people are afraid to make a statement, take a stand on something for fearing retribution.

similar to why when someone is being beaten up in a crowd and nobody does anything.

Like how Aleve is illegal in Canada without an Rx? How many door get kicked down and how many are doing time for importing Aleve?

 

[Chiliagon]

Like how Aleve is illegal in Canada without an Rx? How many door get kicked down and how many are doing time for importing Aleve?

no Idea, I don't take Aleve. I take Aleve of Absence occasionally hehe

but that's about it.

 

[karrie]

yes Chili, as annoying as excessive noise is, it's a mere annoyance, so making auto manufacturers design parts so that you can't buy cheaper versions, only manufacturer made parts, just to prevent it, is a waste of resources.

 

[Chiliagon]

I dunno, I can't say that I'd necessarily agree with that but who knows.

 

[karrie]

I just can't fathom hiring people with my tax dollars, to oversee the rules to govern auto parts to ensure that they are unable to be excessively noisy, pay more for the automobile because of the research and development, pay more for the parts when they break because now the car WILL NOT work without them so the company can hold me over a barrel.... when I ALREADY pay taxes to a municipal gov. to write bylaws, provincial gov to write highway laws, AND pay taxes for police at two governmental levels to enforce those laws.

And all just for the odd d-bag who tears down my street loudly, which poses no risk to people other than annoyance.

 

[Chiliagon]

so then why bother having any noise by-laws at all? why not just let people make as much or as little noise as they like whenever??

no point in having any sort of regulation or policing then.

 

[karrie]

so then why bother having any noise by-laws at all? why not just let people make as much or as little noise as they like whenever??

no point in having any sort of regulation or policing then.

or we stick with the current, reasonable, system.

 

[Chiliagon]

or we stick with the current, reasonable, system.

well ya but there are some people out there that would love to see the guy's car having the muffler ripped out and a quiet one placed on it.