Giving Detention for Bad Grades

[karrie]

Recently my daughter was given detention for receiving 12/20 on a quiz. Considered a 'fail' by the teacher, she was kept in from recess.

It seems to me to be counter intuitive to the educational process to punish bad grades with the removal of priviliges rather than adding support or extra home work. Not just for my kid, but for all kids.

What are your views, not on this individual case, but on the idea in general, of handing out detention to kids over bad grades? Does the fear of being in detention deter them? Or does being one of the kids constantly sitting in detention help encourage the deterioration of grades, and make it toothless as a punishment for behavioural issues?

 

[TenPenny]

If the detention is used to give extra help, I can see it. Otherwise, it accomplishes zero.

 

[Goober]

If the detention is used to give extra help, I can see it. Otherwise, it accomplishes zero.

I disagree - Detention is pusishment for behaviors that are not tolerated - Not for failing in a paper or such.

12 out od 20 is 60 % - is that not a pass - Does your child not do better when she can - Is she operating at a ower level that what she can do?
Expectations of the teacher may have come into play.

 

[TenPenny]

I disagree - Detention is pusishment for behaviors that are not tolerated - Not for failing in a paper or such.

But if you keep a student in during recess to give extra help, isn't that worthwhile? Then, it's not really detention.

 

[karrie]

I disagree - Detention is pusishment for behaviors that are not tolerated - Not for failing in a paper or such.

12 out od 20 is 60 % - is that not a pass - Does your child not do better when she can - Is she operating at a ower level that what she can do?
Expectations of the teacher may have come into play.

This is part of my issue... 12/20 for spelling is a stellar grade for my daughter. it got a 'woo-hoo!' and a hug from me, and detention from her teacher. She does wonderfully in every other area, but spelling is a toughy for her.

But if you keep a student in during recess to give extra help, isn't that worthwhile? Then, it's not really detention.

If you call it detention, then it's detention, regardless of where the teacher is.

 

[Kreskin]

When I was in grade 6 I had a detention for failing a math test. The teacher made me do math on the chalk board and she threw chalk at me when I didn't get the answers right. It's no wonder I became a seri.. (oops almost slipped).

I see no reason to punish a bad grade at all. Failing in front of your peers is punishment enough.

 

[karrie]

well, one of the things that jumps out at me is that I can't make my kids go stand in the corner because I'm mad my floor didn't get washed, when it's my job to wash it.

 

[Kreskin]

well, one of the things that jumps out at me is that I can't make my kids go stand in the corner because I'm mad my floor didn't get washed, when it's my job to wash it.

That makes sense. It isn't like learning is a behavior.

 

[Cliffy]

Human behaviour is neither consistent or constant. It varies with time, mood, circumstances, etc. It does sound like this teacher is punishing your daughter for her own feelings of inadequacy. Perhaps you should give the teacher a good tongue lashing.

 

[wulfie68]

To me it all depends on the reason the poor grade occurred. If it is because a kid has issues in a subject and is trying their best, then giving a detention is the wrong answer, but on the other hand if a kid fails a test because they didn't want to/felt they had no need to study (like my 12 yr old step son) then I don't have issues with a punishment. Thats a tough call for a teacher to make though, and should be more up to the parent, IMO.

 

[karrie]

Human behaviour is neither consistent or constant. It varies with time, mood, circumstances, etc. It does sound like this teacher is punishing your daughter for her own feelings of inadequacy. Perhaps you should give the teacher a good tongue lashing.

well, that's not likely to happen. It wouldn't likely make life any easier for my daughter, for one thing. And it likely stems from her not understanding my daughter's struggles with spelling at this stage in the school year, for another.

To me it all depends on the reason the poor grade occurred. If it is because a kid has issues in a subject and is trying their best, then giving a detention is the wrong answer, but on the other hand if a kid fails a test because they didn't want to/felt they had no need to study (like my 12 yr old step son) then I don't have issues with a punishment. Thats a tough call for a teacher to make though, and should be more up to the parent, IMO.

yeah... failing to complete homework is generally the good indicator, and I'd have no issue with her getting detention for that. The problem is that the modern teaching environment dictates a cookie cutter approach, and so if you deal with Johnny one way, then that's how you have to deal with my kid too, regardless of different circumstances.

 

[lone wolf]

On one end of the country they're pressing kids on through the grade levels regardless of what they've learned and on the other they give detentions for a poor grade. It's no wonder the kids don't know where they stand any more. What happened to consistency?

 

[karrie]

On one end of the country they're pressing kids on through the grade levels regardless of what they've learned and on the other they give detentions for a poor grade. It's no wonder the kids don't know where they stand any more. What happened to consistency?

Well... here's where I show my 'negative side' a bit I guess....

My kids are not in public school, precisely because of the first scenario you presented. So I guess maybe I'm getting a bit of what I asked for in putting them in a school that demands a bit more academic accountability. When they were in public they were so bored to tears by having to sit through classes that were dumbed down to the slowest kid in the class, that I wanted to pull my hair out.

 

[Spade]

Negative reinforcement reinforces the negative! All of us succeed at times, and fail at others. It is part of being human! Failure should be met with encouragement to try again, to master, to meet the challenge - not to feel defeated through punishment.
Perhaps the teacher failed as well? A polite chat with the teacher may clear the air...

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I'd certainly want to know the teacher's version of events before doing anything else. A detention solely because of getting 60% on a spelling quiz is a pretty dumb thing to do, and if that's really the whole story then maybe a tongue lashing is in order. Assuming detention has any useful purpose, which I'm inclined to doubt, it should be a consequence of misbehaviour, not a consequence of doing less well on a test than the teacher thought you should have. That's not a way to motivate academic achievement, and as far as I can tell from all my years and my childrens' years in school, it doesn't motivate anything else either, except maybe resentment. This looks to me like another of those random exercises of authority for no real purpose beyond "because I can."

 

[karrie]

I'd certainly want to know the teacher's version of events before doing anything else.

lol... I'm a mom, I never assume my kids are telling the whole story. But I also didn't want to prepare a discussion with the teacher if a majority of others felt that it IS an effective teaching method. (uh-oh, caving to peer pressure)

A detention solely because of getting 60% on a spelling quiz is a pretty dumb thing to do, and if that's really the whole story then maybe a tongue lashing is in order. Assuming detention has any useful purpose, which I'm inclined to doubt, it should be a consequence of misbehaviour, not a consequence of doing less well on a test than the teacher thought you should have. That's not a way to motivate academic achievement, and as far as I can tell from all my years and my childrens' years in school, it doesn't motivate anything else either, except maybe resentment. This looks to me like another of those random exercises of authority for no real purpose beyond "because I can."

Okay, so I'm not being an over sensitive mom.

 

[Ariadne]

Was the teacher providing one on one tutoring to your daughter during recess, or was your daughter required to miss recess and do nothing? If she was provided with one on one tutoring, I think it was a good thing, and more of a misunderstanding than anything else.

Actually, modern education is much more in tune with the student's individual learning styles and needs (not cookie cutter). It's possible the teacher thought your daughter needed a little extra individual attention, and that she was taking her time - usually a much needed coffee break - to assist. She may have recognized that your daughter had a problem with calculations that was easily remedied with a few minutes of individual instruction.

I get the impression that the use of the word "detention" is the source of the problem. It may be the word that children use when someone has to stay in class rather than go out to play. It may be that your daughter needs to see this as the teacher giving up her coffee break to give her a little individual time because the teacher cares about her, believes she has potential, and doesn't want to see her "left behind" in a subject that builds on itself.

Usually, I completely agree that teachers are idiots, but I think that in this case, if we remove the term "detention", and give the benefit of the doubt, your daughter may actually be receiving something above and beyond the other children.

I don't think you should do anything, but instead support the teacher's decision, which also fosters a healthy attitude towards learning in your child.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

lol... I'm a mom, I never assume my kids are telling the whole story.

Yeah, so I surmised; you're way too smart and thoughtful to think your kids are always perfect little angels. :icon_smile:

Okay, so I'm not being an over sensitive mom.

Not at all, I'd say your instincts are all in the right place, and they're telling you something's wrong here. There is.

 

[Bar Sinister]

I disagree - Detention is pusishment for behaviors that are not tolerated - Not for failing in a paper or such.

12 out od 20 is 60 % - is that not a pass - Does your child not do better when she can - Is she operating at a ower level that what she can do?
Expectations of the teacher may have come into play.

Depends on what you consider a pass Would you want a programmer or secretary who only spelled 60% of his words correctly? Would you want a mechanic or doctor who carried out his profession properly only 60% of the time? Different teachers set different standards. I know of one university prof who gave every paper a zero if it contained a single spelling error. That seems rather extreme to me, but demanding a higher standard than 60% for a spelling test does not seem too demanding.

The real question should be why parents and society in general demand that all students be graded. Education is supposed to be about learning; not what sort of mark you can get. When I was teaching one question I came to detest was "Is this for marks?" Because if it wasn't the student asking the question had no intention of paying the least attention to what was being taught.

 

[karrie]

Was the teacher providing one on one tutoring to your daughter during recess, or was your daughter required to miss recess and do nothing? If she was provided with one on one tutoring, I think it was a good thing, and more of a misunderstanding than anything else.

Actually, modern education is much more in tune with the student's individual learning styles and needs (not cookie cutter). It's possible the teacher thought your daughter needed a little extra individual attention, and that she was taking her time - usually a much needed coffee break - to assist. She may have recognized that your daughter had a problem with calculations that was easily remedied with a few minutes of individual instruction.

I get the impression that the use of the word "detention" is the source of the problem. It may be the word that children use when someone has to stay in class rather than go out to play. It may be that your daughter needs to see this as the teacher giving up her coffee break to give her a little individual time because the teacher cares about her, believes she has potential, and doesn't want to see her "left behind" in a subject that builds on itself.

Usually, I completely agree that teachers are idiots, but I think that in this case, if we remove the term "detention", and give the benefit of the doubt, your daughter may actually be receiving something above and beyond the other children.

I don't think you should do anything, but instead support the teacher's decision, which also fosters a healthy attitude towards learning in your child.

really, I made a point of asking what detention was, and if the teacher calls it detention, and what she does during detention. She sits alone in a room and writes lines (ie, the quiz words 10 times over), and it's called detention. No special attention, no one on one.

The real question should be why parents and society in general demand that all students be graded. Education is supposed to be about learning; not what sort of mark you can get. When I was teaching one question I came to detest was "Is this for marks?" Because if it wasn't the student asking the question had no intention of paying the least attention to what was being taught.

Because how can teachers prove they're doing their jobs without a metric? Anytime we attempt to add something to a vessel there has to be some graduation to prove that we have added content. What would you choose other than grades to show parents what their investment has bought?