The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza

CUBert

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The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza

by Mike Whitney
[*]
There are 25,000 Jews in Iran, which is the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused, in fact, they are protected under the Iranian constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, are not brutalized by an army of occupation and are not confined in a densely populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of subsistence. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized by Western media. He is called anti-Semitic and a "new Hitler." But if these allegations were true, then why did the majority of Iranian Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in the recent presidential elections? Is it possible that most of what is known about Ahmadinejad is based only on rumors and propaganda?


The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza - English pravda.ru
 

Machjo

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The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza

by Mike Whitney
[*]
There are 25,000 Jews in Iran, which is the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused, in fact, they are protected under the Iranian constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, are not brutalized by an army of occupation and are not confined in a densely populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of subsistence. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized by Western media. He is called anti-Semitic and a "new Hitler." But if these allegations were true, then why did the majority of Iranian Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in the recent presidential elections? Is it possible that most of what is known about Ahmadinejad is based only on rumors and propaganda?


The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza - English pravda.ru

It may be true, but it's still relative. And let's not forget that adherents of at least one other religion are at risk of severe persecution.
 

CDNBear

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And lets not forget what sect they closely resemble, Haredi. One of the most brutal orthodox sects of Judaism. On par with Komehni's visions for Islam.

Oddly enough though, Arab Muslims of Israel, have greater rights then the Jews of Iran.

Go figure.
 

Colpy

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The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza

by Mike Whitney
[*]
There are 25,000 Jews in Iran, which is the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused, in fact, they are protected under the Iranian constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, are not brutalized by an army of occupation and are not confined in a densely populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of subsistence. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized by Western media. He is called anti-Semitic and a "new Hitler." But if these allegations were true, then why did the majority of Iranian Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in the recent presidential elections? Is it possible that most of what is known about Ahmadinejad is based only on rumors and propaganda?


The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza - English pravda.ru


The comparison does not wash.

Iran is responsible for its citizens.

Israel is not responsible for the citizens of Gaza, a territory that it unilaterally withdrew from years ago. Hamas is responsible for the citizens of Gaza, and Hamas tortures, murders, and executes people in Gaza.........as well as carries on an idiotic, suicidal war with Israel, bringing pain and suffering down on Gaza.....

As CDN Bear says, a more equitable and rational comparison would be between the Jews of Iran and the Arab citizens of Israel....

BTW, in 1980, there were 80,000 Jews in Iran, now there are 25,000......which I think says something about the way they are treated.......
 

CUBert

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haha, you're seriously going to tell me Israel is not responsible for citizens of Gaza, after they've implemented a very strict, illegal blockade, and Israel is really their main source of getting necessary items into Gaza?
No Israel is VERY responsible.
Hamas does a respectful and charitable job for its citizens, but there is only so much they can do with the blockade. The only thing you know about Hamas is Israeli propaganda you've found on youtube, posted by hate groups such as palestinewatch.com.
You want to cry about Hamas torturing, murdering and executing people, but America does the exact same thing and to a much worse extent.

Jews are treated finely in Iran

Jewish attractions of Iran

Almost every city of Iran has a Jewish attraction, shrine, or historical site. Prominent among these are the Esther and Mordechai and Habakkuk shrines of Hamedan, the tomb of Daniel in Susa, and the "Peighambariyeh" mausoleum in Qazvin. Usually Muslims go to Daniel shrine for pilgrimage.
There are also tombs of several outstanding Jewish scholars in Iran such as Harav Ohr Shraga in Yazd and Hakham Mullah Moshe Halevi (Moshe-Ha-Lavi) in Kashan, which are also visited by Muslim pilgrims.
Persian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]While Jewish communities in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria have all but vanished, Iran is home to 25,000 - some here say 35,000 - Jews. The Jewish population is less than half the number that lived here before the Islamic revolution of 1979. But the Jews have tried to compensate for their diminishing numbers by adopting a new religious fervor. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]''The funny thing is that before the Islamic revolution, you would see maybe 20 old men in the synagogue,'' whispers Nahit Eliyason, 48, as she climbs over four other women to find one of the few vacant seats. ''Now the place is full. You can barely find a seat.'' Parvis Yashaya, a film producer who heads Tehran's Jewish community, adds: ''We are smaller, but we are stronger in some ways.'' [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini. [/FONT]



They're hardly be persecuted like you think.
I think the decline in Jews in Iran since 1980 had little to do with how they were treated by more to do with the violence going on around that time... The Islamic Revolution, Iran/Iraq war,, etc..
 

Machjo

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The comparison does not wash.

Iran is responsible for its citizens.

Israel is not responsible for the citizens of Gaza, a territory that it unilaterally withdrew from years ago. Hamas is responsible for the citizens of Gaza, and Hamas tortures, murders, and executes people in Gaza.........as well as carries on an idiotic, suicidal war with Israel, bringing pain and suffering down on Gaza.....

As CDN Bear says, a more equitable and rational comparison would be between the Jews of Iran and the Arab citizens of Israel....

BTW, in 1980, there were 80,000 Jews in Iran, now there are 25,000......which I think says something about the way they are treated.......


I'd met a Persian Jew once, and he'd told me that his take on it was that the Iranian government was peeved that the Qur'an should grant explicit rights to Christians and Jews, and so would adopt the strictest, most minimalist interpretation of whatever rights are granted Jews in the Qur'an, and remove all other rights that are not explicitly granted to Jews in the Qur'an, totally stuck on the letter of the word and not the spirit of the text. He'd given the sarcastic response: Thank God the Qur'an at least mentioned some rights explicitly, or Iranian Jews would have no rights at all.

So I will agree that Jews are not very well treated in Iran at all. Again, they are better treated than adherents of religions that are not mentioned in the Qur'an, but if you're an atheist, Buddhist, etc. you're screwed. And if you're a Baha'i, it's even worse since Baha'is, though not Muslim, do believe in the Qur'an (albeit with a radically different understanding of its text), and so are considered to be apostates.

A Baha'i friend (since deceased many years ago) had told me that a few days after the Revolution, he'd gone to work at his engineering firm only to find that he'd been fired. So he asked for his last paycheck, and was told to go to accounting. At the accounting department, they'd informed him that according to the new laws, they were not allowed to pay him since he was a Baha'i. That very day, he'd gone home, packed his family and some belongings into the car, and drove straight to Pakistan, from there to Spain, and finally Canada. He was among the lucky ones. Others, some as young as fifteen, have been murdered by the regime. Yes the situation has improved somewhat, but only owing to the international community breathing down Iran's throat all the time. They've toned it down a little, but now, instead of killing Baha'is, just try to make their lives as miserable as possible by restricting education, etc. And I'm sure they'll still kill a Baha'i if they can find a good pretext to do so.

CUBert, I'll agree that Israel is in violation of many international laws with regards to Palestine, and certainly has some discriminatory religious laws for its citizens without a doubt. When comparing religious laws though, Iran makes Israel look open to other religions (and that says a lot when Israel effectively bans interfaith marriage on its soil!).

Looking at it that way, while I have no issue with Canada being friends with Israel and Iran (albeit an honest friend that will criticize them as any real friend will), I do have a problem with Canada forming bilateral alliances with either of those countries.

And as for the Jewish attractions in Iran, remember that Muslims also believe in the Hebrew Bible, and so in Iran it likely has to do with the government preserving those sites not as Jewish heritage, but rather as part of 'pre-Christian' Muslim history. In other words, the government would view Muslims as the rightful inheritors of Jewish history, Muslims being the true spiritual descendants of the Jews of the pre-Christian era.

Remember too that the ahadith require the state to provide a synagogue for any local Jewish community that cannot afford to build one themselves. While this might sound good in principle, it can also be hellish if done as a means of following the letter rather than the spirit of the law. After all, there is a big difference between Muslims happily protecting Jewish sites in a desire for mutli-faith friendship, and doing so with contempt and a grudge because according to the Qur'an, they have to. The same Persian Jew I'd met had mentioned that he'd once even read an article to the effect that Jews should be thankful that the Qur'an grants them protection or they wouldn't deserve even that.

Now yes, you'd think a true Muslim would love to do the bidding of God as taught in his sacred texts. But it would seem the reality is far darker than that: these same 'Muslims' seem to curse the fact that the Qur'an and ahadith grant Jews so much protection.

I'd like to add though that I reject the idea that between Israel and Iran, one must be all good and the other all bad. They both fall within a shade of grey, though granted Iran is of a darker shade.

In spite of this though, we should still be honest and acknowledge any good point or redeeming quality in both countries.
 

Goober

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The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza

by Mike Whitney
[*]
There are 25,000 Jews in Iran, which is the largest Jewish population in the Middle East outside Israel. Iranian Jews are not persecuted or abused, in fact, they are protected under the Iranian constitution. They are free to practice their religion and to vote in elections. They are not stopped and searched at checkpoints, are not brutalized by an army of occupation and are not confined in a densely populated penal colony (Gaza) where they are deprived of the basic means of subsistence. Iranian Jews live in dignity and enjoy the benefits of citizenship.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is demonized by Western media. He is called anti-Semitic and a "new Hitler." But if these allegations were true, then why did the majority of Iranian Jews vote for Ahmadinejad in the recent presidential elections? Is it possible that most of what is known about Ahmadinejad is based only on rumors and propaganda?


The Jews of Iran are Far Better Off Than Palestinians of Gaza - English pravda.ru


The population of Jews was recently 300,000 - wonder why they left - Now check out how non adherents - so called Muslim heretics are treated in Iran, or Pakistan, or Saudi or any number of Muslim countires

They hang them for these so called crimes - they are tarted for persecution for crimes they did not commit - then they hang them - Of course many are raped before hanging -

Read Machjo's post - And singling out how well Jews are treated you conveniently overlooked others that do not meet their criteria for religious belief..

Cherry picking Jews does not cut the mustard as they say.

Your using Pravda as a reputable source - Who controls the Media in Russia -

And lets not forget what sect they closely resemble, Haredi. One of the most brutal orthodox sects of Judaism. On par with Komehni's visions for Islam.

Oddly enough though, Arab Muslims of Israel, have greater rights then the Jews of Iran.

Go figure.

One is a democracy and the other it a dictatorship combined with a Theocracy - Reason I mention 2 for Iran are the power struggles between Imanutbar the Ayatollah and the Pres aka Imanutjob.
 
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Machjo

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Another interesting anecdote my Jewish friend had told me which reveals the complete hypocrisy of the Iranian regime was the case of a member of the Jewish community, who'd also studied Islam formally, soon after the Revolution who'd tried to take the government to court on the grounds that, while the Qur'an and ahadith might not give Jews absolute equality with Muslims, it did grant them considerable rights, many more than the Regime was giving them based on an obviously contorted minimalist interpretation thereof. The case was dismissed on the grounds that a Jew could not understand the Qur'an and ahadith!

I'd asked what happened to that Jew, and apparently nothing (I suppose the Muslim regime had a hard time squirming around the Islamic rule of not murdering the People of the Book). However, the idea that a person could not challenge the regime based on its own laws was the epitome of hypocrisy. After all, you'd think the regime would have welcomed an opportunity to discuss the rights of Jews from a Qur'anic perspective. And besides, the Jew was not even asking for equality, but merely that the laws of the same religion the regime claimed to profess be adhered to. It turned out that even that was too much to ask.
 

Goober

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Another interesting anecdote my Jewish friend had told me which reveals the complete hypocrisy of the Iranian regime was the case of a member of the Jewish community, who'd also studied Islam formally, soon after the Revolution who'd tried to take the government to court on the grounds that, while the Qur'an and ahadith might not give Jews absolute equality with Muslims, it did grant them considerable rights, many more than the Regime was giving them based on an obviously contorted minimalist interpretation thereof. The case was dismissed on the grounds that a Jew could not understand the Qur'an and ahadith!

I'd asked what happened to that Jew, and apparently nothing (I suppose the Muslim regime had a hard time squirming around the Islamic rule of not murdering the People of the Book). However, the idea that a person could not challenge the regime based on its own laws was the epitome of hypocrisy. After all, you'd think the regime would have welcomed an opportunity to discuss the rights of Jews from a Qur'anic perspective. And besides, the Jew was not even asking for equality, but merely that the laws of the same religion the regime claimed to profess be adhered to. It turned out that even that was too much to ask.


Search | Human Rights Watch?
 
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earth_as_one

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related:
http://www.hamsayeh.net/hamsayehnet_iran-international news1578.htm

I'm sure some anti-Semiticism exists in Iran just like most countries, but Iran's leaders have been careful to differentiate between Zionism and Judaism and in general are supportive of their Jewish community.

Jews are welcome in Iran as long as they aren't cooperating with the Zionist state of Israel. Jews face no official religious discrimination or restrictions in Iran, have the same rights as everyone else and even have a few rights most other Iranians don't have.

That said, Iran is not a shining beacon of religious tolerance by any stretch of the imagination. As mentioned above, Persian Jews are treated better than most other religious minorities, some of which are treated very badly.

Reference:
Persian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also
Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel | World news | guardian.co.uk

and
Religion in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Goober

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related:
Why Iran's Jews are Better Off Than Gaza's Palestinians

I'm sure some anti-Semiticism exists in Iran just like most countries, but Iran's leaders have been careful to differentiate between Zionism and Judaism and in general are supportive of their Jewish community.

Jews are welcome in Iran as long as they aren't cooperating with the Zionist state of Israel. Jews face no official religious discrimination or restrictions in Iran, have the same rights as everyone else and even have a few rights most other Iranians don't have.

That said, Iran is not a shining beacon of religious tolerance by any stretch of the imagination. As mentioned above, Persian Jews are treated better than most other religious minorities, some of which are treated very badly.

Reference:
Persian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also
Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel | World news | guardian.co.uk

and
Religion in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
EAO
Jews are welcome in Iran as long as they aren't cooperating with the Zionist state of Israel. Jews face no official religious discrimination or restrictions in Iran, have the same rights as everyone else and even have a few rights most other Iranians don't have.

That said, Iran is not a shining beacon of religious tolerance by any stretch of the imagination. As mentioned above, Persian Jews are treated better than most other religious minorities, some of which are treated very badly.

Please define badly as it is so generic and in your case apologetic - They hang people of Religious Minorities based upon trumped up charges - Is that in your opinion being treated badly - Really

They rape a women and in particular if a virgin so she will be judged poorly by Allah - Is that being treated badly

They round up minorities and murder them - is that your opinion of being treated badly

What meets your opinion of Atrocious Violations of Human Rights in Iran - No cut and paste allowed -

Iran: Free Baha'i Leaders | Human Rights Watch

Iran: Release Rights Activist; Guarantee a Fair Trial | Human Rights Watch

Iran: Stop Abuse of Political Prisoners | Human Rights Watch

Badly - I think you need to do a complete rethink on the Iranian Regime. These are just a few from Human Rights Watch - So please justify why HRW is completely in error on these cases. i look forward to your response.

Your Pal Goober
 

earth_as_one

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Follow the links G, they are pretty self explanitory.

In general the Iranian government is not in the middle of an ethnic cleaning war. They aren't evicting religious minorities from their homes and then awarding those homes to Muslims in order to redeem the land. Iran's government hasn't razed raised the villages of their religious minorities. They have not deliberately bombed hospitals, schools, universities, mosques, churches, police and fire stations, public water and sewage treatment facilities, water towers, electrical power stations, fuel reservoirs, the harbor, the airport... The Iranian government is not accused of deliberately shooting civilians as they flee under a white flag of truce. They've never rounded up most of the people (including children and babies) in a neighborhood, put them in one building and then shelled the building with high explosives. They've never abducted random civilians including children and held them at gun point as they advanced on enemy positions. They've never forced civilians including children to enter buildings to set off booby traps. They have never abducted civilians and forced them at gunpoint into pits surrounded by razor wire bound in painful stress positions in front of tanks and artillery as they shelled the surrounding neighborhood.

In general, Iran treats their religious minorities much better than Israel. But that isn''t exactly high praise.
 

gopher

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Iranian Jews Reject Outside Calls To Leave

Iranian Jews Reject Outside Calls To Leave ? Forward.com

The NYC Jewish newspaper Forward reported a few years ago that Iranian Mizrahim rejected an invitation to move en masse to Israel on the grounds that they live quite happily in that country. This despite all the slander reported by the far right media in the USA. The Jewish middle and upper class are thriving in Iran which is in marked contrast to minorities living in other Middle East countries.
 

Bar Sinister

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I wonder how long the Iranians would be tolerant of Jews if a few members of the Jewish population tied explosives to themselves and detonated them in some public place.
 

Machjo

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Follow the links G, they are pretty self explanitory.

In general the Iranian government is not in the middle of an ethnic cleaning war. They aren't evicting religious minorities from their homes and then awarding those homes to Muslims in order to redeem the land. Iran's government hasn't razed raised the villages of their religious minorities. They have not deliberately bombed hospitals, schools, universities, mosques, churches, police and fire stations, public water and sewage treatment facilities, water towers, electrical power stations, fuel reservoirs, the harbor, the airport... The Iranian government is not accused of deliberately shooting civilians as they flee under a white flag of truce. They've never rounded up most of the people (including children and babies) in a neighborhood, put them in one building and then shelled the building with high explosives. They've never abducted random civilians including children and held them at gun point as they advanced on enemy positions. They've never forced civilians including children to enter buildings to set off booby traps. They have never abducted civilians and forced them at gunpoint into pits surrounded by razor wire bound in painful stress positions in front of tanks and artillery as they shelled the surrounding neighborhood.

In general, Iran treats their religious minorities much better than Israel. But that isn''t exactly high praise.

You do bring up some valid points here. However, that does not change the fact that some of Iran's religious minorities are being persecuted. True it's not so much an ethnic thing seeing that, for example, most Persian Baha'is are only 1st, 2nd, 3rd, maybe 4th generation, mostly coming from converts from other religions, especially Islam (not surprising seeing the demographics of the country). So yes, you are right that it's not an ethnic divide, but a strictly religious one, unlike the one in Palestine. But cold comfort it is for those who are being persecuted.

Yes, I agree that Israel needs to abide by the many UN Resolutions that have been brought against it... as does Iran!

And Canada too. Yes, we have been criticized at least twice already. Once over Bill 101 in Quebec and once over the Separate school system in Ontario, that I know of. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Canada has been accused of violating certain international laws with regards to the First Nations too.

Iranian Jews Reject Outside Calls To Leave

Iranian Jews Reject Outside Calls To Leave ? Forward.com

The NYC Jewish newspaper Forward reported a few years ago that Iranian Mizrahim rejected an invitation to move en masse to Israel on the grounds that they live quite happily in that country. This despite all the slander reported by the far right media in the USA. The Jewish middle and upper class are thriving in Iran which is in marked contrast to minorities living in other Middle East countries.

As I'd mentioned above, though there is certainly truth in saying that the 'People of the Book' are relatively well treated in Iran (the example I'd given above of the Jew who'd tried to challenged the Iranian government in court and lived to tell about it is a case in point). That said, if your not of the People of the Book (i.e. Muslim, Christian, Jew, or Sabean), your life might not be as rosy.

Of course this does not change the fact that Israel's religious laws are only slightly better with its religious marriage and conversion laws, etc.

Now all this being said, I'd still favour that Canada adopt an open policy to both countries, ensuring easy travel for Israelis and Iranians coming to Canada and vice versa. Trade will help to bring down some of the barriers between us, just as has started to happen with China, slowly but surely.

I wonder how long the Iranians would be tolerant of Jews if a few members of the Jewish population tied explosives to themselves and detonated them in some public place.

I certainly don't condone such actions. Then again, it does take two to tango. Israel hasn't exactly been playing by the rules either now has it, judging by all the official sanctions against it over decades.
 

earth_as_one

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I wonder how long the Iranians would be tolerant of Jews if a few members of the Jewish population tied explosives to themselves and detonated them in some public place.
I wonder how long Canadians would be tolerant of Jews if that happened here.

I think you are mixing up cause and effect though. People don't blow themselves up without a reason. Jews in Iran would probably be violent if they suffered the same kind of oppression and injustice as Palestinians.
 

Goober

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I wonder how long Canadians would be tolerant of Jews if that happened here.

I think you are mixing up cause and effect though. People don't blow themselves up without a reason. Jews in Iran would probably be violent if they suffered the same kind of oppression and injustice as Palestinians.

OK - Then tell us why one religious sect in Pakistan attacks another religious sect in Pakistan - And yes they are both Muslim.

Logic trail - All Aboard - Train Wreck a comin.

Also - it will happen in Canada - it s just a matter of time. Then what will the results be? Try and expand upon that
 

Bar Sinister

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I wonder how long Canadians would be tolerant of Jews if that happened here.

I think you are mixing up cause and effect though. People don't blow themselves up without a reason. Jews in Iran would probably be violent if they suffered the same kind of oppression and injustice as Palestinians.

I know that the Pelestinians have a lot to blame Israel for, but why is it that organizations like Hamas do everything they can to disrupt negotiations that might lead to a better life for both Jews and Palestinians?

The situation in Palestine-Israel has become a continual cycle of reprisals; all of them leading to continued hostility and injustice so far as relations between the two peoples are concerned. But whenever any attempt is made to break the cycle fanatics on one side or the other do their level best to disrupt proceedings.

So far as Iran is concerned its treatment of minorities does not entirely surprise me. The Iranians are not the fanatical terrorists that much of the media would have us believe.
 

Colpy

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I know that the Pelestinians have a lot to blame Israel for, but why is it that organizations like Hamas do everything they can to disrupt negotiations that might lead to a better life for both Jews and Palestinians?

The situation in Palestine-Israel has become a continual cycle of reprisals; all of them leading to continued hostility and injustice so far as relations between the two peoples are concerned. But whenever any attempt is made to break the cycle fanatics on one side or the other do their level best to disrupt proceedings.

So far as Iran is concerned its treatment of minorities does not entirely surprise me. The Iranians are not the fanatical terrorists that much of the media would have us believe.

I agree with much of this. Fanatics on both sides of the Israel-Palestine question set out to undermine any chance of peace.......although this time it is Hamas that is doing the killing.

The persians are not a bunch of lunatic terrorists.....but their leaders are.....and Hamas is one of their tools.