why i have to pay more for kosher


karrie
#121
Quote: Originally Posted by jimshort19View Post

karrie, "I have no reason, no foundation, for arguing antisemitism with this person until they prove otherwise."

If you are looking for someone to prove that they are anti-semetic, while we are satisfied with a lack of anti-semetic rational when they single out the Jews for blame for food prices.

If it looks like a pig, walks like a pig and quacks like a pig, it's not kosher. The best that I can say with respect to the merit of this thread is that the author is not a conspiracy theorist. Leave her alone with some of the people on this forum and she'll be convinced that the Jews are poisoning her tin foil.

Not wanting to pay into an organization they don't belong to doesn't necessarily make someone 'against' that organization. So no.... I don't see a pig here yet. What I do see is a LOT of people who I thought were capable of attacking an argument, attacking the person instead. A full out gang up on a poster who is clearly less versed at substantial debate. Not overly impressive.
 
Zan
#122
Krakra,
Do you get the feeling you're not convincing anyone of anything here?
 
karrie
#123
Quote: Originally Posted by ZanView Post

Krakra,
Do you get the feeling you're not convincing anyone of anything here?

lol... did you get that feeling too?
 
jimshort19
#124
Karrie, "A full out gang up on a poster who is clearly less versed at substantial debate. Not overly impressive. "

That sounds mean. But the part about substantial debate, you can't pin that wrap on me. My debate draws upon nothing more than the notion that the burden of proof against the Jew-catering manufacturers rides with the accuser, not the accused. I haven't contributed a shred of evidence of any substantive sort. Neither has the poster. I win. Old age and wretchedness will overcome youth and enthusiasm.
 
Lester
#125
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Not wanting to pay into an organization they don't belong to doesn't necessarily make someone 'against' that organization. So no.... I don't see a pig here yet. What I do see is a LOT of people who I thought were capable of attacking an argument, attacking the person instead. A full out gang up on a poster who is clearly less versed at substantial debate. Not overly impressive.

The argument has been taken apart on this thread numerous times, yourself included. But this poster keeps trying to find a hook of some kind - there are many examples of things we pay for but don't like,you for example loath shiny wrappers and brand names so you buy noname - that is a choice. I don't care for noname diet cola so I buy Diet Pepsi thats my choice. there is no argument, it's not like the Jews control the food supply and are secretly converting us.for Krakra to imply that this is a Jew conspiracy is preposterous. If you look back on this thread, many thoughtful and informative answers were given to the question posed. However, these answers were not good enough for Krakra because they do not fit with her/his preconceived notions.
 
karrie
#126
Quote: Originally Posted by LesterView Post

However, these answers were not good enough for Krakra because they do not fit with her/his preconceived notions.

lol.... have you been around internet debates long? You just summed up almost every argument that occurs on here.
 
Lester
#127
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

lol.... have you been around internet debates long? You just summed up almost every argument that occurs on here.

lol Iv'e belonged to a few forums - but this one is incredibly entertaining (albeit frustrating at times)
 
s_lone
#128
If you don't want it, don't buy it.
 
jimshort19
#129
Krakra old boy, surely this enterprise did not fly. Try again. Next thread, if you are going to skate on the thinnest social ice available, bring a boat fully provisioned.
 
krakra
#130
A good and nice sample of closed minds.

1-Just talking on a matter that really include a jewish matter , even that the jewish is not
concerned ............result: i have to proove that i am not anti-semitic
ok , i will proove it : kosher certification is the best certification ever and the
40.000$ paid by the manufacturer to have it ,will reduce the price of the product
like 3+1=2 or x+y=x-y
Guys , i am waiting for your certification that i am not anti-semitic.

To the man who is telling that organism is a living body ,it can be said for every close
population which works to the same goal.

Even i am a little bit new in canada , but i start to have picture of to which level can someone have a closed mind even i a so called civilized world.
I dont have anything to proove ,if you want me to be anti-semitic , i will be ,no problem at all ,not afraid of your sycho. prejudices.
 
karrie
#131
Quote: Originally Posted by krakraView Post

To the man who is telling that organism is a living body ,it can be said for every close
population which works to the same goal.

I was merely offering you an explanation of why people are making fun of your use of organism rather than organization. You had mentioned in your introduction that you were here to work on your English. Well, organization and organism aren't interchangeable in common English.

If you were lying in your introduction, I'll gladly cease offering advice, and continue letting you misuse words, rather than explain.
 
Lester
#132
Ok here is my certification you are certifiable - I'm outtie
 
karrie
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by krakraView Post

kosher certification is the best certification ever and the
40.000$ paid by the manufacturer to have it ,will reduce the price of the product
like 3+1=2 or x+y=x-y
Guys , i am waiting for your certification that i am not anti-semitic.

Yes, it would be hinky math to think that it would come out that way. But.....

Let's say a products ingredients cost 1 cent, manufacturing costs 1 cent, packaging costs 1 cent, and shipping it to the store costs 1 cent. a manufacturer can be looking at a product that costs them merely 4 cents to make, but that we are willing to pay 50 cents in the store for. They profit 45 cents.

Now add kosher certification to that, and it doesn't always mean that the customer will pay more. Sometimes it merely means that the manufacturer has raised their own cost of production (let's say another cent for kosher certification per unit), and has resolved to make a profit of only 44 cents per unit, instead of 45, in order to reach a wider market and thus sell more. You don't necessarily pay anything to a kosher certification board... the manufacturer does.
 
Tonington
#134
Quote: Originally Posted by krakraView Post

Guys , i am waiting for your certification that i am not anti-semitic.

I don't know if you're anti-semitic, but I think you're confused.

You'll have to convince the site administrator to pay a certified expert on anti-semitism, or to recruit one for some resolution here. Hope the site fees don't go up....
 
jimshort19
#135
Krakra, don't fall apart on us now, not after standing (stubbornly) up for so long.

Some cultural latitude is due you. But don't be so demanding of yourself as to demand that we hear you prove anything at all. I'm certain that what you have said is not at all discreditable where you came from. But this is here and the way it is here. It may seem strange, even illogical to you now, but it is better to have it out here than somewhere else. This is your good fortune, bitter sweet as it may be.

You are bound to stumble a little until you get your legs here. Be glad. Every single one of those who criticised what you said or how you said it will be the the first to defend you, the immigrant, and we are not simply here, but more, everywhere.
 
Zan
#136
Well said JimShort...

ermm.... Jimshort sounds so.. formal. I think if we're gonna drink spiked tea together I should get to call ya Jim don't you?
 
krakra
#137
Karrie , thank you for your english courses , but what i know is that organism has the same meaning in french or english , if you dont use it in your common english , that doesnt mean that it will change its meaning (anyway thanks).
Jimmshort , thanks also but you have to know that i am not waiting for the support of anyone ,my only support is a little bit of reason without any prejudices.
Lester : thanks for your certification , please send it as soon as possible because i dont have toilet paper.
karrie : well done with your calculation , this is what i am waiting to look for , a real calculation of the cost. You have to agree at least that there is a cost to be paid by someone to have the kosher certification (in your case it is the manufacturer who will see his benefits reduced), i can agree with this and you have to proove that all manufacturers do this and they dont just compensate it by raising the cost to the consumer.
And in all cases , kosher certification will not open a wider market because , it is intended mainly to a market of 2% of the population.
 
karrie
#138
Quote: Originally Posted by krakraView Post

karrie : well done with your calculation , this is what i am waiting to look for , a real calculation of the cost. You have to agree at least that there is a cost to be paid by someone to have the kosher certification (in your case it is the manufacturer who will see his benefits reduced), i can agree with this and you have to proove that all manufacturers do this and they dont just compensate it by raising the cost to the consumer.
And in all cases , kosher certification will not open a wider market because , it is intended mainly to a market of 2% of the population.

It doesn't necessarily lower their benefit krakra. If it costs them, as you say, 40 000 a year extra, they may very well make that cost up by reaching an expanded customer base through kosher certification. 100 units sold at a 45 cent profit, or 200 sold at a 44 cent profit, which would you prefer as a manufacturer?

And no, the burden of proof is not on me to prove that the manufacturer eats the cost. You're the one who asserted that you pay more for kosher, not I, despite repeated explanations that our pantries don't seem to reflect that (ie, kosher certification being only on some of the less expensive foods). I'm merely explaining some market dynamics which make it worthwhile to the manufacturer and of no hindrance to the consumer. The burden of proof is squarely on your shoulders on this one if you'd like to carry on discussing it.
 
krakra
#139
Well done karrie and nice reasoning.
the wider market you are talking about is the people represented by the rabbins who let them check their food for religious and may be hygienic matters.
the main market in this country , is represented only by the canadian authorities who have the right to check the food manufacturing process, because they are paid for that (from the taxes).
I invite you to check really in the malls for the percentage of koshered food (take the list that i have attached in the begining of this thread) and you will see that it is not less than 70%.
I think that it is normal .
 
jimshort19
#140
Zan, you may call me Jimmy Sam. (James Samuel). If you would keep your mind focused upon the cost of food, if we can all just think about food, more, please. I was reading the newspaper, Food section, this morning while watching the food channel and eating. And I thought, how is it that some women just can't keep their minds on food these days? Some aspire to be thin, while eating gluttenous amounts, all day long, but these normal women are becoming more rare, and the men more fat, but I'm not homosexual. Focus with me Zan.

We live in the food age. It's coming back. The food supply was once the human population governor of this planet, but now that governing has become the province of women, women with rights, women with minds of their own, women who cannot, will not, cook. And all I get to do is read and watch.

I once worked as a kosher certification inspector at an aluminum foil factory, but I got fired. I kept my mind on the food, and where did it get me?

Now Zan, don't you be aligning with Karrie's soft on anti-semitism stance. We don't need no stinking anti-semitism. Hosting Townsey is arguably a criminal offense in this country. Whomever pays for that dudes soapbox is scum, right?

Krakra was an immigrant girl, until I found out she was a man. All this shopping talk. The guys and I, we went to the bar, we went to the beer store, we went to the beach, the bush and back to the beer store. Nobody ever said, "Jim? Oh, he went shopping." We did not go shopping. Is this guy for real, or am I being presumptuous about his sexual orientation?

The name 'Krakra', what's with that? In my culture, circa some past century, there were a few names and only a few that were unisex. But one look at the guy's head and you knew he had balls. Then the clothes and makeup and what if maybe sex doesn't matter anymore or I have to check your genitals?

Focus with me here Zan. My goodness how your mind wonders.
 
darkbeaver
#141
Quote: Originally Posted by krakraView Post

A good and nice sample of closed minds.

1-Just talking on a matter that really include a jewish matter , even that the jewish is not
concerned ............result: i have to proove that i am not anti-semitic
ok , i will proove it : kosher certification is the best certification ever and the
40.000$ paid by the manufacturer to have it ,will reduce the price of the product
like 3+1=2 or x+y=x-y
Guys , i am waiting for your certification that i am not anti-semitic.

To the man who is telling that organism is a living body ,it can be said for every close
population which works to the same goal.

Even i am a little bit new in canada , but i start to have picture of to which level can someone have a closed mind even i a so called civilized world.
I dont have anything to proove ,if you want me to be anti-semitic , i will be ,no problem at all ,not afraid of your sycho. prejudices.


Don't you dare leave us, those who would paint you as anti-semitic are poverty stricken mentalitys not to be considered completely sentient. You asked a valid question and opened an interesting avenue of inquiry often closed because of real disfunctional discrimination.
 
darkbeaver
#142
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Yes, it would be hinky math to think that it would come out that way. But.....

Let's say a products ingredients cost 1 cent, manufacturing costs 1 cent, packaging costs 1 cent, and shipping it to the store costs 1 cent. a manufacturer can be looking at a product that costs them merely 4 cents to make, but that we are willing to pay 50 cents in the store for. They profit 45 cents.

Now add kosher certification to that, and it doesn't always mean that the customer will pay more. Sometimes it merely means that the manufacturer has raised their own cost of production (let's say another cent for kosher certification per unit), and has resolved to make a profit of only 44 cents per unit, instead of 45, in order to reach a wider market and thus sell more. You don't necessarily pay anything to a kosher certification board... the manufacturer does.

Legions of capitalists disagree, every penny of that extra expence is past to the connsumer any efficency for any reason ends up in the capitalists pocket, that's the law of capitalism. The cost of production is always and in every case without exception passed on to the consumer. There are no exceptions dispite protestations of capitalists to the contrary.
 
#juan
#143
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Legions of capitalists disagree, every penny of that extra expence is passed to the connsumer any efficency for any reason ends up in the capitalists pocket, that's the law of capitalism. The cost of production is always and in every case without exception passed on to the consumer. There are no exceptions dispite protestations of capitalists to the contrary.

I would have to agree with Darkbeaver. In the final analysis, all costs are passed on to the consumer so we are paying for Jews to be Jewish.......That, I disagree with very strongly.
 
darkbeaver
#144
Quote: Originally Posted by jimshort19View Post

Zan, you may call me Jimmy Sam. (James Samuel). If you would keep your mind focused upon the cost of food, if we can all just think about food, more, please. I was reading the newspaper, Food section, this morning while watching the food channel and eating. And I thought, how is it that some women just can't keep their minds on food these days? Some aspire to be thin, while eating gluttenous amounts, all day long, but these normal women are becoming more rare, and the men more fat, but I'm not homosexual. Focus with me Zan.
We live in the food age. It's coming back. The food supply was once the human population governor of this planet, but now that governing has become the province of women, women with rights, women with minds of their own, women who cannot, will not, cook. And all I get to do is read and watch.
I once worked as a kosher certification inspector at an aluminum foil factory, but I got fired. I kept my mind on the food, and where did it get me?
Now Zan, don't you be aligning with Karrie's soft on anti-semitism stance. We don't need no stinking anti-semitism. Hosting Townsey is arguably a criminal offense in this country. Whomever pays for that dudes soapbox is scum, right?
Krakra was an immigrant girl, until I found out she was a man. All this shopping talk. The guys and I, we went to the bar, we went to the beer store, we went to the beach, the bush and back to the beer store. Nobody ever said,...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
You JimShort are anti socialist by your own addmision which is in factand deed is anti-social, which in reality is by far the greater crime of discrimination and hate than anti-semitism and that sir is a demonstratable fact. Nobody can deny the many millions of human beings exterminated by your capitalist disease. So before you entertain thoughts of cleaning this forum of undesireables you should perhaps clean your own house.
 
darkbeaver
#145
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

I would have to agree with Darkbeaver. In the final analysis, all costs are passed on to the consumer so we are paying for Jews to be Jewish.......That, I disagree with very strongly.

You can disagree with me all you want, the laws of capitalism are iron bound by mathmatics however and there's not a thing you can do about it. We are paying for capitalists to be capitalists the Jewish aspect is simple marketing and nothing more.
 
darkbeaver
#146
The fact is the cost of religions and thier various practices is and always has been bourne by the consuming public, this was the reason for thier inception in the first place. The posters mistake if any was to introduce the subject to the forum without complete forthought of that universal fact. In fact the cost to the consumer passed on to society by Catholisism or Protestantism can be seamlessly added to the cost of Islam and all the rest of the damn religions, incalculable cost over the centurys, to support and maintain superstitious fantasy, in the face of that I'm not at all concerned with the miniscule cost passed on by Jews in the maintenance of thier eating habits. To answer Krakras question "why do I have to pay more for kosher" it's for this simple reason and none other, you're now living in capitalist heaven and there is no human condition that they will not exploit to the fullest to screw you out of money, they care nothing about religion race or planet of origine, any excuse to get your gold even if they have to invent it.
Last edited by darkbeaver; Jan 8th, 2008 at 11:50 AM..
 
#juan
#147
Sorry DB. I was just trying to stir the pot a bit........
 
darkbeaver
#148
In the end we are argueing about the quality of dill pickles eh.
 
lone wolf
#149
Would there be the same stink if a "union-made" tag put the cost up a few cents?

Woof!
 
jimshort19
#150
Juan, you disagree with consumers paying for Jews to be Jews. I don't bother to look to see if my pork is kosher or not. I just eat it. I don't get worked up about it at all. You side with Krakra against kosher, but I side with the majority who vehementl;y agree that they don't give a damn and that those that do have got a non-economic agenda.

Nuggler, you are an anti-seismite.

Lone Wolf, you union basher. What a case in point! This is perfect, isolating religion from the equation entirely. Yes, there is no doubt that unions add costs, or there would be no unions. But given that they have a legal right to exist and that they obey the law, that any corporation is free to employ them and I drink the odd beer, and they make most of the beer... damn I forgot what I was going to say. Oh yeah, you got something against beer?
 

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