Thanks As Always Canada


Curiosity
#1
Aircraft have been sent from B.C. and Quebec to assist in the California fire fighting - we can always look north for some kind of assistance when in trouble ....

Not a Canadian craft, but there is some quality flight going on by one guy (nobody seems to know if he is an ex-military or commercial pilot)...but he is maneuvering a lumbering old DC-10 (I originally thought it must be a DC -8 - a 10 would be way too clumsy - over the fires, dropping way down with his 50 tons of Foschek or retardant, unlaoding and of course once empty the craft floats up and tilts and he just keeps on trucking east to set down and refuel and returns again...

A gentle giant performing a ballet in the air while hell continues below....

Anyway.... THANK YOU AGAIN ... NEIGHBOR UP NORTH
 
Kreskin
#2
It would be the Mars

 
Northboy
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Aircraft have been sent from B.C. and Quebec to assist in the California fire fighting - we can always look north for some kind of assistance when in trouble ....

Not a Canadian craft, but there is some quality flight going on by one guy (nobody seems to know if he is an ex-military or commercial pilot)...but he is maneuvering a lumbering old DC-10 (I originally thought it must be a DC -8 - a 10 would be way too clumsy - over the fires, dropping way down with his 50 tons of Foschek or retardant, unlaoding and of course once empty the craft floats up and tilts and he just keeps on trucking east to set down and refuel and returns again...

A gentle giant performing a ballet in the air while hell continues below....

Anyway.... THANK YOU AGAIN ... NEIGHBOR UP NORTH

You can always count on us....
 
Tonington
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Aircraft have been sent from B.C. and Quebec to assist in the California fire fighting - we can always look north for some kind of assistance when in trouble ....

Not a Canadian craft, but there is some quality flight going on by one guy (nobody seems to know if he is an ex-military or commercial pilot)...but he is maneuvering a lumbering old DC-10 (I originally thought it must be a DC -8 - a 10 would be way too clumsy - over the fires, dropping way down with his 50 tons of Foschek or retardant, unlaoding and of course once empty the craft floats up and tilts and he just keeps on trucking east to set down and refuel and returns again...

A gentle giant performing a ballet in the air while hell continues below....

Anyway.... THANK YOU AGAIN ... NEIGHBOR UP NORTH

It's a great partnership really. The international effort here in North America for disaster relief is not given the credit it deserves. Maybe it runs across the screen on the news ticker.

Hope you, your family, and your friends are well and safe Curio.
 
Curiosity
#5
Thanks Tonington

The Canadians really know their forestation and topography... have the whole thing about fighting fires from the air down to a science.

This time around there is more than enough help - volunteers are being sent home to be rotated in and out - there is so much help - and assistance. It will be terrible later when people go home and the homeless are left without a place to return to.

So far so good - just smells terrible...
 
Northboy
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Thanks Tonington

The Canadians really know their forestation and topography... have the whole thing about fighting fires from the air down to a science.

This time around there is more than enough help - volunteers are being sent home to be rotated in and out - there is so much help - and assistance. It will be terrible later when people go home and the homeless are left without a place to return to.

So far so good - just smells terrible...

We'll have to fix that then, won't we???
 
#juan
#7
Not everybody is happy...
A MATTER OF DOLLARS AND SENSE
-- and the politics of aerial firefighting


Canadair's CL-415s in Los Angeles County

© 1998 Kelly Andersson (external - login to view)
Contributing Editor
WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER Magazine



This story originally ran in
the September ‘98 issue of
WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER Magazine.
Email them (external - login to view) for back issues.
The Canadian SuperScoopers are the darlings of the media in L.A. County, and the heroes of the skies in the eyes of much of the interface-thick Southern California general public. It's just the rest of the firefighting community who hate them.
Management personnel with the Los Angeles County Fire Department like ‘em, and homeowners in the hills who've had their houses saved from raging brushfires like ‘em a lot. But things are a little snarly in the fire community. Both groundpounders and those who fight fire from the air insist that L.A. County would be money and effectiveness ahead by contracting helitankers or U.S. waterscoopers, or by buying retrofitted military surplus — or darned near anything but leasing or buying SuperScoopers from Canada. The detractors blame politics, make allegations about skewed studies and bought-off politicians, and repeatedly claim that the L.A. media have mindlessly championed the cause of the target-missing SuperScoopers in favor of the fire-pasting helicopters.
No one claiming buy-outs or backroom deals seems to have any evidence, of course, but rumors and gossip repeated often enough seem to take on a truth of their own. And the Los Angeles County Fire Department (LACoFD) is going ahead with this season's lease of SuperScoopers anyway. Two CL-415s leased from the Province of Québec arrived in September, accompanied by fanfare (the land of 1,000 press conferences) and airshows and the attention of local impressionable media. The lease agreement with Québec, valued at a little over $1 million, doesn't include flight hours but does include maintenance and pilots — Québec provides the pilots, two at a time, who are on duty for 30 days before being rotated halfway through the contract. Last year the contract was extended beyond 60 days, and with flight hours included, totaled $1.6 million.
The LACoFD provides fire protection and emergency medical services for 51 cities and the unincorporated areas of the county, which has a population of more than 9 million people over its 2,200 square miles. The LACoFD's 3,500-plus employees are stationed at 157 facilities. Canadair's CL-215T gained fame in Southern California during the fall fire seasons of 1994 and 1995 while first on lease with the LACoFD for operational evaluation. From the beginning, firefighters both on the ground and in the air have said that the aircraft were limited by the area's steep terrain and high winds.
The planes have been popular with the press and the public, though — the SuperScoopers are dramatic and sexy. It's easy to see how residents fidgeting at the edges of their hillside estates, gripping their garden hoses and watching a fire race up the slope across from them, would see the Scoopers as some kind of rescue angel from the skies. Anything in the air fighting a fire is impressive, but imagine the reaction of moms and tykes at a county park watching a CL-415 scoop from the reservoir. Those reactions have reportedly spawned public pressure on the county politicians, which has undoubtedly played a role in keeping Scoopers airborne over L.A. County.

http://tinyurl.com/2lhhqm
 
lone wolf
#8
CL-415 and the Be200 - a Russian jet-powered scooper of similar capacity and lift time - are the best contenders (though I'm not so sure I'd really want to drive a fanjet into altitudes populated by scared birds) If California smoke-eaters have a better option, they should be using it.

Wolf
 
#juan
#9
My point was that these aircraft are down there under contract. Canada is not providing humanitarian, firefighting service to California just because we are loving neighbors. The companies who are providing the water bombing service are hopefully going to be paid.
 
lone wolf
#10
They were leased last year. Why should this year be any different? I'm sure Bombardier would love to sell Arnie a few because it's obviously not a lease-for-profit deal.

Wolf
 
Curiosity
#11
Fixed wing aircraft in some of the areas of the fire right now are limited as to their maneuvers because there is so little water available.... helicopters are using private swimming pools - getting into small areas where flash burns are taking place and being able to wet them down pretty quickly.

The magnificent planes are wonderful for large, open areas of topography but in so many of the tiny isolated canyons, they just can't get in...

I am sorry but I dislike turning this into another bash the U.S. thread - it was meant only to thank the Canadians for their contributions (in the past and this day).

Whether there are contract problems or the help is unwanted seems a bit out of place here with an article written in 1998 which may or may not be valid in the year 2007....


So much has changed since then ... new methods, new fire situations, new reciprocal agreements, and a working arrangement between two large nations which makes me bloody proud.
 
Curiosity
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

My point was that these aircraft are down there under contract. Canada is not providing humanitarian, firefighting service to California just because we are loving neighbors. The companies who are providing the water bombing service are hopefully going to be paid.

Juan

What a shame you have such a rigid view of this situation. I am pleased you are in the minority because the people down here are grateful for any assistance, 'under contract' or otherwise. You make saying 'thank you' seem rather ugly and rotten inside.

That's the second topic I've written on you've managed to get snarly over... lighten up eh?
Last edited by Curiosity; Oct 24th, 2007 at 03:21 PM..
 
Northboy
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Fixed wing aircraft in some of the areas of the fire right now are limited as to their maneuvers because there is so little water available.... helicopters are using private swimming pools - getting into small areas where flash burns are taking place and being able to wet them down pretty quickly.

The magnificent planes are wonderful for large, open areas of topography but in so many of the tiny isolated canyons, they just can't get in...

I am sorry but I dislike turning this into another bash the U.S. thread - it was meant only to thank the Canadians for their contributions (in the past and this day).

Whether there are contract problems or the help is unwanted seems a bit out of place here with an article written in 1998 which may or may not be valid in the year 2007....


So much has changed since then ... new methods, new fire situations, new reciprocal agreements, and a working arrangement between two large nations which makes me bloody proud.

Well said...I can't speak for others, but in my way, I'll be doing what I can to heal.
 
Curiosity
#14
Northboy

You no doubt appreciate the value in our times of a good neighbor and friend - these relationships should be nurtured for the benefit of all. When I see it being played out it affirms my belief there
is hope and if Canada and the U.S. cannot work together, there is little hope for the future.
 
JoeSchmoe
#15
There are only 2 Martin-Mars bombers left. We had a 3rd up until maintenance and parts cossts got to be "too much". Plus the gov't is letting the forest companies off the hook for maintaining and managing them. At least there are still 2 in service for the time being...

Glad they will get some use down there! Amazing machines.
 
hermanntrude
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by JoeSchmoeView Post

There are only 2 Martin-Mars bombers left. We had a 3rd up until maintenance and parts cossts got to be "too much". Plus the gov't is letting the forest companies off the hook for maintaining and managing them. At least there are still 2 in service for the time being...

Glad they will get some use down there! Amazing machines.

i'm going to frame this post for its rarity value: a post by JoeSchmoe expressing gladness
 
mrmom2
#17
Kamloops has BC's forestry firwe fighting center and i have been wondering why our airtankers haven't been sent we have 4 planes that are perfect for those small canyons and tight areas but there just sitting on the ground I suspect goverment red tape theres no other reason those planes for those planes to be sitting here
 
Tonington
#18
Red tape, the worst kind of tape, unless we're talking about tuck tape. I agree, they really should be there.
 
mrmom2
#19
Heres the plane i've seen it fly into some amazing places around here .Its a
Firecat 'TS

www.aeroflight.co.uk/pics/fire-bomber-pic.htm (external - login to view)
Heres one in BC
bcwildfire.ca/FightingWildfir...es/firecat.JPG (external - login to view)
 
Curiosity
#20
Mr.Mom

I heard someone yesterday talking about the Firecat....but I didn't know it was a Canadian craft... It's a sassy looking piece of equipment - like it's on a mission!!!

Sad they aren't being used.... the helicopters can't carry much...

If this regularity of fires every summer continues, the U.S. would be wise to get as many suitable craft under contract as possible....with reciprocal arrangements for Canadian needs too from any
U.S. equipment/manpower necessary in the event of a natural disaster.
 
lone wolf
#21
Firecat is actually a refitted Navy vet - an old Grumman Tracker. She needs land to load, and an airport or handy landing strip isn't always close.

CL 415 is Canadian - all Canadian, They call her the Super Scooper because she'll scoop 10000 litres in about 12 seconds from a close-by lake or reservoir, then drop it right where it's needed.

Mars is a fifty year old US Navy warbird. The veteran loads 27000 litres from much bigger lakes. A true giant among bombers. Only three of her breed remain.

Wolf
Last edited by lone wolf; Oct 24th, 2007 at 05:44 PM..
 
Northboy
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Northboy

You no doubt appreciate the value in our times of a good neighbor and friend - these relationships should be nurtured for the benefit of all. When I see it being played out it affirms my belief there
is hope and if Canada and the U.S. cannot work together, there is little hope for the future.

It is troubling how soon we forget...

But it is gratifying to see how quickly we remember..

Reciprocity leads to Peace and the Practise of it brings Great Honour..

By the Grace of God, humbly I pray,

Let the healing begin.....
 
dekhqonbacha
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Aircraft have been sent from B.C. and Quebec to assist in the California fire fighting - we can always look north for some kind of assistance when in trouble ....



Anyway.... THANK YOU AGAIN ... NEIGHBOR UP NORTH

when we have a problem, we look up north as well, and guess what we see?

you guessed it right.
we see more problems... we see melting artics.
 
mrmom2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Firecat is actually a refitted Navy vet - an old Grumman Tracker. She needs land to load, and an airport or handy landing strip isn't always close.

CL 415 is Canadian - all Canadian, They call her the Super Scooper because she'll scoop 10000 litres in about 12 seconds from a close-by lake or reservoir, then drop it right where it's needed.

Mars is a fifty year old US Navy warbird. The veteran loads 27000 litres from much bigger lakes. A true giant among bombers. Only three of her breed remain.

Wolf

Thats true Wolf but it can get into places the mars can't .I've seen these planes in action and they dump ther loads with the precision of laser guided bombs .They are the work horses of the BC fleet in the summer here .the Mars usually are lefting sitting at the docks .These planes contain or stop the fire before it gets out of control
 
daisygirl
#25
And I'm just hearing now on Breakfast Television that arson is suspected in two of the fires. How could anyone possibly do something like this on purpose? My god!

As for paying for the planes, let's get the fires out first and worry about settling up later.
 
#juan
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Juan

What a shame you have such a rigid view of this situation. I am pleased you are in the minority because the people down here are grateful for any assistance, 'under contract' or otherwise. You make saying 'thank you' seem rather ugly and rotten inside.

That's the second topic I've written on you've managed to get snarly over... lighten up eh?

Curio
You are not posting in a vacuum. I posted that article to show other sides of the story including the side of those Americans who are still opposed to the Canadian "Super Scoopers". Nobody was being snarly, but now that you mention it, I'm sure the Canadians will be happy when the bill is paid.
 
lone wolf
#27
Sometimes I wonder if opposition to the Super Scoopers is they get the job done too fast. It's happened around here where volunteer (read: wannabe) fire services have set fires so they could earn some coin. I won't say that's the situation there, but the lust for cash isn't area specific. A lot of money changes hands in every emergency. The guys who are always there seem to be the ones who catch the fewest drips.

Wolf

EDIT: Then, sometimes there is the old envy that arises when the best piece of apparatus isn't something you have on hand.... To make a long story short, thanks are graciously accepted and the other we just call good-intentioned rivalry. No offence taken.
Last edited by lone wolf; Oct 25th, 2007 at 04:43 PM..Reason: addition
 
Toro
#28
 
#juan
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by ToroView Post

Your stars and Stripes underwear is covering the Canadian flag.....as usual....
 
Toro
#30
I like to think of it as the Canadian flag lording over the American flag, about to engulf it!
 

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