the zoo/should they be banned


Dreadful Nonsense
#1
Some people think zoo's are a good thing, some want them banned.
Lets chat zoo.

And i'm not talking about this place.
I'm talking about the ones where are neighbors are kept in cages for us to gawk at.
 
Vereya
#2
I know that zoos are probably very useful for scientific purposes, and that a lot of work is done in some zoos to preserve the species that are nearing extinction, but my personal attitude is -

I hate zoos!

I never visited a zoo since I was there as a kid with my parents. And while zoos are more or less acceptable, circuses where they make animals perform tricks are absolutely disgusting.
 
Pangloss
#3
Sticking with zoos:

What possible good can zoos do? Teach us we have absolute dominion over everything that creepeth, flyeth and swimmeth? What a horrible lesson.

Protect breeding stocks of endangered animals? Habitat protection and anti-poaching enforcement is the better way to go, and much more economical, too.

Research? Come on, folks - research done in situ, not looking through the glass of some cage, has scientific validity.

I know I am writing in absolutes, and absolutes are always wrong, but I think you get my point.

Pangloss
 
Twila
#4
I personally feel that if this
Quote:

Protect breeding stocks of endangered animals? Habitat protection and anti-poaching enforcement is the better way to go, and much more economical, too

was even possible then zoo's wouldn't be needed. However, since we don't have a responsible world police and since greed and corruption abound in humans we'll always need zoo's

There are currently many animals in zoos that exist no where else in the world...and will never get to run free because of habitat loss/destruction.
Last edited by Twila; Aug 10th, 2007 at 03:33 PM..
 
Pangloss
#5
Twila:

Take all that money and expertise that is put into zoos worldwide and spend it on habitat and anti-poaching protection, and it will be more than possible.

There would be an embarrassment of riches to do the job.

The cynical throwing up of one's hands and saying "people are so wicked and there's nothing we can do" is the perfect way to make sure nothing will get done.

Pangloss
 
Twila
#6
Pangloss,

How? How can we keep people from poaching, logging, and such when we can't even keep ourselves from fighting? Couldn't keep Rwanda from happening, or Durfur or any of the millions of other little squirmishes going on, so how do you propose to control the people?
 
Pangloss
#7
Twila:

I understand your frustration, and your point, but what you seem to be missing is our wonderful capacity to change.

There are already several African preserves where the poachers have been hired to be guardians, and for the most part it seems to be working.

There will always be the greedy and unethical, but we as a society can and often do change for the better, and we can make it difficult for bad actors to make a living from cruelty and waste.

The west no longer has slavery. The world is trying do do something to pollute less (in many cases we are doing a much better job than we were just a couple of decades ago - are you young enough to not have lived through the urban smog problem of the 70's?).

I know this sounds Pollyanna-ish, but just because something is difficult to do, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

Pangloss
 
Minority Observer84
#8
Yes!
Natural wildlife reserves are a good thing , they generate money and provide a semi safe ecosystem for endangered animals . Zoos on the other hand keep animals in cages outside their natural environment for entertainment and profit . It's downright evil if this had been happening to people we'd call it slavery but because a double standard applies to animals people just don't care/
 
Tonington
#9
Some zoos are very good for scientific purposes. There is more than just simple habitat and poaching concerns in the field of zoology. We're experiencing what has become known as the Sixth Extinction.

Don't forget that many zoo researchers are not confined to laboratory research, they also partake in expeditions and many programs geared towards education. They also coordinate with government authorities for animal census and the species at risk programs.

In my mind, the pet industry is far worse for wild animals than zoos are. The pet industry takes wild animals for sale in the exotic pet markets. Zoos breed animals reared in captivity, some for many generations which in some cases is a step closer to say a pet dog or cat.

Now I'm not saying all zoos are such nice places. There are those out there which could be compared to puppy mills, but reputable institutions offer much new information zoologically and that can only make the case for protected habitat and better conservation programs stronger.
 
Pangloss
#10
Trust you, Tonington, to point out that like everything else in life, this question does not have a yes or no answer.

Of course, it is impossible to disagree.

Pangloss
 
Cosmo
#11
Good arguments for both sides, I'd say.

Personally, I hate zoos. I hate seeing wild animals in cages or captivity of any kind. On the flip side of that coin, tho, I spent hours sitting at the Calgary zoo just watching the silverback gorilla. He appeared pretty content, but when I met his eyes I felt bad for him. I would never have the opportunity to be that close to a gorilla in the wild. Proximity does make people care more. When we can experience the animals with our own senses they are no longer abstract. I think good zoos do contribute to the changes you speak of, Pangloss.

What about the Conservation and Research for Endangered Species (external - login to view) part of the San Diego Zoo?

I ran across this (external - login to view) article (below) earlier today and was terribly saddened by it. If you've read "Last Chance to See" by Douglas Adams you have some history on these dophins. If this animal were not in a zoo, would it still exist?

Hard questions.

Quote:


A Yangtze River dolphin, also known as a baiji, is seen in this undated handout...


LONDON (Reuters) - The long-threatened Yangtze River dolphin in China is probably extinct, according to an international team of researchers who said this would mark the first whale or dolphin to be wiped out due to human activity.


The freshwater dolphin, or baiji, was last spotted several years ago and an intensive six-week search in late 2006 failed to find any evidence that one of the rarest species on earth survives, said Samuel Turvey, a conservation biologist, at the Zoological Society of London, who took part in the search.


He said the dolphin's demise -- which resulted from overfishing, pollution and lack of intervention -- might serve as a cautionary tale and should spur governments and scientists to act to save other species verging on extinction.

"Ours is the first scientific study which didn't find any," he said in a telephone interview. "Even if there are a few left we can't find them and we can't do anything to stop their extinction."
The team, which published its findings in the Journal of the Royal Society Biology Letters on Wednesday, included researchers from the United States, Britain, Japan and China. The survey was also authorized by the Chinese government, Turvey said.

The last confirmed baiji sighting was 2002, although there have been a handful of unconfirmed sightings since then. The last baiji in captivity died in 2002, Turvey said.

During the six-week search, the team carried out both visual and acoustic surveys and used two boats to twice cover the dolphin's 1,669 kilometer range stretching from the city of Yichang just downstream from the Three Gorges dam to Shanghai.

The last such survey conducted from 1997 to 1999 turned up 13 of the mammals, but Turvey said fishing, pollution and boat traffic in the busy river, home to about 10 percent of the world's population, has likely meant the baiji's end.

"We covered the whole range of the dolphin twice," Turvey said. "It is difficult to see how we could miss any animals."

The dolphins will now be classified as critically endangered and possibly extinct but Turvey said there is little chance any remaining baiji are alive.

Researchers have known for years about the dolphin's precarious situation but indecision about how best to save the species meant little was actually done, he added.

This underscores the need to act quickly to prevent the extinction of other similar shallow-water aquatic mammals like the vaquita found in the Sea of Cortez and the Yangtze finless porpoise, Turvey said.

"One really needs to learn from this to make sure future conservation efforts are more dynamic," he said. "There has always been so much focus on 'save the whale' and 'prevent whaling' that it has led to these range-restricted shallow cetaceans slipping through the crack."

 
Nuggler
#12
I'm gonna let something from another thread creep in here

Guided tours of East Hastings.....................Quite a zoo, no?

Last "zoo" we were at was the Vancouver Aquarium, and it's a beautiful place, but we felt sorry for the animals..........especially the Sea Otters.........They should be out there feeling the sun with the surf lapping over them and the kelp twined around, helping them to say put.........beautiful animals. Some dipshyte thought they were beaver..........."Yah, dem's dose little guys whut makes dams wid der tails huh.......purty huh?" Can still hear this ignorant earthstain after all these years.

I tried to convince a couple of people to jump in with the polar bear, but....... no go............

Nah, don't care much for zoos.

 
karrie
#13
hmm. interesting topic.

If I were a zebra, which would I prefer? A life of freedom, or a life of confinement?

On the surface, freedom seems best. But, it comes with predation, droughts, possible lack of food, and a lack of veterinary care. Dying as a predator tears out your insides because you were too weak to run doesn't seem all that noble. The zoo looks pretty good at that point. Especially given the state of some modern zoos, with their gigantic enclosures (more pasture land than most feed cattle will ever see) and their natural look.

Good or bad is a hard call. I think it pretty much has to be looked at on a 'zoo by zoo' basis, as well as according to how they're acquiring their animals. There are scads of animals in zoos who were rescued from death, or taken from poachers.
 
s243a
#14
I'm totally for zoos but I wouldn't mind some rules with regards to how much space each type of animal requires.
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#15
Ya see I've been thinking about this for years...Great response here from all.....I think I'm still on the fence....On one hand up close and personnal to animals gives awareness of how beautiful and precious they really are....then some of us get that freedom tug from looking deep in the Orangatang's eyes..Hell N'UGGs still wants an otter to enjoy the open sea....Overall do the caged ones make for a better love and appreciation all round in society....A few trips to the zoo by the time yer 5 years old and the magic could be planted. I wonder what a kid's life without the zoo would be like?
 
s243a
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by DocDredView Post

Ya see I've been thinking about this for years...Great response here from all.....I think I'm still on the fence....On one hand up close and personnal to animals gives awareness of how beautiful and precious they really are....then some of us get that freedom tug from looking deep in the Orangatang's eyes..Hell N'UGGs still wants an otter to enjoy the open sea....Overall do the caged ones make for a better love and appreciation all round in society....A few trips to the zoo by the time yer 5 years old and the magic could be planted. I wonder what a kid's life without the zoo would be like?

You look at monkies in a guage and they look like they are having fun. You see a big cat in a cage or a hippo and they look board or they just pace back an forth. I think that there is not enough space given all the time for some larger mammals.
 
Unforgiven
#17
Depends on just where you are on the food chain. In the wild, food doesn't come easy, there is always someone looking to kill you and when you boil it down freedom means getting up finding something to eat, taking a dump and doing your best not to get eaten. And most of the time, it's as boring as an office job.

A zoo is like a retirement home with sex once in a while. Boring? Sure but then so is living in the suburbs.
 
karrie
#18
Bruin from Winnipeg zoo named world's oldest living polar bear
Fri Aug 10, 2:12 PM
WINNIPEG (CP) - Debby, who makes her home at the Winnipeg zoo, has been recognized by Guinness World Records as the oldest living polar bear.
At 40, Debby has doubled the life expectancy of most polar bears, who usually live about 20 years in the wild.
Her age also makes her the second-oldest of all bear species in recorded history.
Zookeeper Harold Masters says Debby remains in excellent health, but he notes she likes her beauty rest.
The Assiniboine Park Zoo is planning a celebration with some of Debby's favourite treats - veggie dogs and smoked goldeye.
Debby's story was submitted to Guinness World Records by 17-year-old Samantha Machan, a Winnipeg high school student and a frequent zoo visitor.
 
Twila
#19
Quote:

I understand your frustration, and your point, but what you seem to be missing is our wonderful capacity to change.

Oh, I'm aware of our ability to change, I just hold no faith in it. Change changes...I volunteer at a cat shelter. I get to see first hand what "love" brings to some poor cats. I see "animal lovers" all the time who believe they are doing what is best. I see few real animal lovers.

Quote:

There are already several African preserves where the poachers have been hired to be guardians, and for the most part it seems to be working

Yes, and our lovely Diane Fossy had so much luck with gov't in Africa. Wasn't she actually targeted by them?

So we change for awhile...Greed ALWAYS wins.

I watched people on Vancouver Island gripe that the gov't MIGHT take away a fish farm because of pollution and habitat destruction. They protested because they were scared they'd not be able to put food on their tables. For the majority of people the path of least resistance is the one they take. Short term profits are the forte of gov'ts. Long term thinking is a foreign idea not practiced by most.

Maybe democracy is a bad idea....majority rules and the majority would prefer to have 4x4 for city use, SUV's and large houses. They don't want to sacrifice for the greater good.
 
missile
#20
I remember my first visit to the zoo and marvelling over the beauty and grace of the large Siberian tigers there & am glad that it still exists today for the local schoolkids to see. If the animals are as well treated in the other zoos,by all means..keep them running.
 
hermanntrude
#21
It's surely a fine line. Zoos can easily become neglected in times of strife, and the animals have an awful time, but in a prosperous zoo in a prosperous country, they can be very well cared for, and even bred in capitivity and re-introduced when populations face extinction. And the benefit of allowing the young children to see the world's wildlife and understand a little more of life can't be underestimated.
 
santer
#22
ee.....

Zoo is a palce for children playing,but for adult it si not a good place.I thinl
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by santerView Post

ee.....

Zoo is a palce for children playing,but for adult it si not a good place.I thinl

why?...you worried that the adults might view the animals sexually....and you don't want to see adults jumping over the fence to have sex with the mountain goats in public...it's accepted in the hills of Pakistan you know...
 
santer
#24
呵呵hehe~~~make a joke only.

I try to write sth.on the froum.but my English words is poor,so I wrote some words before,but that's not my truly mind.sorry about it.

I went to Zoo when I was a child,that's a nice memory,when I come to a adult,I have little chance to visit Zoo.but I went with my daughter,she like anything in the Zoo very much,above all is the monkey and panda.
everyone have own notion about the thing(Zoo if been banned),but when I watched the animals in the cage,I thinked it's maybe unhumane.(sorry,I don't know if I spell the words excatly,hehe~~)
hehe ,that is my notion,maybe it's not right.....
hehe ,Mr. DocDred,wish us come to be good friends in the forum.hehe
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by santerView Post

呵呵hehe~~~make a joke only.

I try to write sth.on the froum.but my English words is poor,so I wrote some words before,but that's not my truly mind.sorry about it.

I went to Zoo when I was a child,that's a nice memory,when I come to a adult,I have little chance to visit Zoo.but I went with my daughter,she like anything in the Zoo very much,above all is the monkey and panda.
everyone have own notion about the thing(Zoo if been banned),but when I watched the animals in the cage,I thinked it's maybe unhumane.(sorry,I don't know if I spell the words excatly,hehe~~)
hehe ,that is my notion,maybe it's not right.....
hehe ,Mr. DocDred,wish us come to be good friends in the forum.hehe

santer santer santer......ok we shall be best buddies....hung fat choy...sheshe doje buyong she.....not bad huh..my chinnese is limited to happy new year thank you thank you your welcome.....but i get along fine....
 
JBeee
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by DocDredView Post

Some people think zoo's are a good thing, some want them banned.
Lets chat zoo.

And i'm not talking about this place.
I'm talking about the ones where are neighbors are kept in cages for us to gawk at.

Oh I`m sure ol;d Doug will acknowledge your presence soon enough, Dave.
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeeeView Post

Oh I`m sure ol;d Doug will acknowledge your presence soon enough, Dave.

genius ....awesome post jb......
 
JBeee
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by DocDredView Post

genius ....awesome post jb......

...and you know it.
 

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