Humans are a disease! (Humans Are A Disease)


L Gilbert
#31
plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism/ (external - login to view)

 
L Gilbert
#32
www.iep.utm.edu/i/imagery.htm (external - login to view)
 
s243a
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

There in lies the mistake. To think that humans are the epitomy, that we are so ingenious and thus the most important aspect of the Earth is simply not true. The web of life was around before we came to be. Microbes in the soil, algae in the oceans, terrestrial mammals, everything is connected and dependant on other parts that make the system.

How many species do you think we can lose before the results are made clear? Species are disappearing at an alarming rate. Biodiversity cannot be undervalued. Take a natural system versus a man-made system. We'll use a farm and the native land before the farm. The farm has much fewer species. As a result the system is more prone to instability and needs ammendment to to even function. While the natural land before agriculture has many more species, nutrient cycling is stable, and as a result the whole system is more stable.

"The Universe is hostile, so impersonal. Devour to survive...so it is, so it's always been"

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

There in lies the mistake. To think that humans are the epitomy, that we are so ingenious and thus the most important aspect of the Earth is simply not true. The web of life was around before we came to be.

What life forms besides humans would you say are aware of their own existence? Which ones would you say react to their environment based on higher level though as opposed to instinct. How advanced would you consider the communication of other species.

Quote:

Microbes in the soil, algae in the oceans, terrestrial mammals, everything is connected and dependant on other parts that make the system.

Our existence does not depend on one terrestrial mammal. It depends on plants insects and bacteria all of which clearly are not capable of higher level thought.

Quote:

How many species do you think we can lose before the results are made clear?

Apparently quite a lot. If you run a million year average the biodiversity is higher today then it has ever been on the history of the planet.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:P...odiversity.png (external - login to view)


Quote:

Species are disappearing at an alarming rate. Biodiversity cannot be undervalued.

Again running a million year average the rate of extinctions today is 10 times less then it was 450 million years ago despite that biodiversity is far greater today then it was 450 million years ago.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E..._Intensity.png (external - login to view)


Quote:

Take a natural system versus a man-made system. We'll use a farm and the native land before the farm. The farm has much fewer species. As a result the system is more prone to instability and needs ammendment to to even function. While the natural land before agriculture has many more species, nutrient cycling is stable, and as a result the whole system is more stable.

The rate of phtotoshythis on a farm probably exceeds that of a virgin forests because virgin forests hinder new growth because the tall trees do not allow much light to reach the forest floor.

Quote:

"The Universe is hostile, so impersonal. Devour to survive...so it is, so it's always been"

Humans are innovative and have been adapting to more and more hostile environments thought the history of man kind.
 
Tonington
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by s243aView Post

What life forms besides humans would you say are aware of their own existence? Which ones would you say react to their environment based on higher level though as opposed to instinct. How advanced would you consider the communication of other species.
I'm not really sure how those questions are relevant to what you quoted me on. Anyways the answers are: 1)Not sure,2) perhaps monkeys with their tool making and 3) dependant on what you define advanced as. If through chemical concentration gradients or song or pheromeones, body movement.
Our existence does not depend on one terrestrial mammal. It depends on plants insects and bacteria all of which clearly are not capable of higher level thought.
Terrestrial mammals play key roles in the checks and balances involved with those plants, animals and insects which play key roles in other plants, animals, insects and microbes. Our existance may not be directly dependant, but that's kinda the jist of my little rant, to recognize these relationships. Higher level thought, again not sure what you're getting at. How is that relevant to trophic relationships or symbiosis between species?
Apparently quite a lot. If you run a million year average the biodiversity is higher today then it has ever been on the history of the planet.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post

Besides, like I said it's only a hastily written idea.
 
darkbeaver
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Thanks Eh1.

I'd like it if members were allowed to post ideas in the articles/debates section, but it's only mods that get to post in there. I kinda thought there would be more opposition to my idea. I'd like to read up on others ideas, like maybe they see it another way. Like I said, it's similar to other ideas, like humanity is a virus, or maybe others see us as a great big machine. Theres many ways to think of it I would say.

Maybe I'm taking away the value of humanity as others see it?

I'v read a few things along the line you are persueing, one of them compared our overpopulation to a plague of people similar to the locust, but further to that the piece explored viral ideas which lead to viral ideologys which preceeded all maner of malady among the species, there is ample evidence that flawed ideology in reasoning things like us very quickly leads to trouble of all kinds,
religion was suggested as an idea gone far beyond our reason.
 
L Gilbert
#36
Religion isn't merely suggested as an idea beyond reason, it IS beyond reason.

I'm too lazy and tired at the moment to read all of s243a's spiel, but it's unknown how many species have self-awareness. Hence, I would suggest that it's also unknown how many react to environments on more than an instinctual level. Some species are quite conversive. Even bees and ants converse. But, I would think cetaceans probably have the most complex communications on the planet, besides humans. For example, dolphin pods usually number from about 10 to about 25. Each dolphin has a signature whistle and they use those to distinguish each other and aspects about each other and they do not choose a signature from a fixed set of whistles. There is also a difference between how males and females develop their signatures. (Females' signatures vary greatly from their mothers' signatures, whereas males' signatures are similar to their mothers'. This may indicate that one may have more of a genetic basis and the other more of an environmental basis).
There's also a variety of combinations cetaceans use to tell each other things besides whistles, like clicks, chirps, grunts, pops, groans, etc. Besides that they can identify human sounds to a degree and reproduce some. Besides that the larger dolphins like orcas have a larger range of frequencies than the smaller ones due to the size difference in the two bursas and the size and shape of the phonic lips in their heads. Humpbacks are the critters that sing those incredibly long songs (some are well over an hour long). Nifty, huh?
 
darkbeaver
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Religion isn't merely suggested as an idea beyond reason, it IS beyond reason.
I'm too lazy and tired at the moment to read all of s243a's spiel, but it's unknown how many species have self-awareness. Hence, I would suggest that it's also unknown how many react to environments on more than an instinctual level. Some species are quite conversive. Even bees and ants converse. But, I would think cetaceans probably have the most complex communications on the planet, besides humans. For example, dolphin pods usually number from about 10 to about 25. Each dolphin has a signature whistle and they use those to distinguish each other and aspects about each other and they do not choose a signature from a fixed set of whistles. There is also a difference between how males and females develop their signatures. (Females' signatures vary greatly from their mothers' signatures, whereas males' signatures are similar to their mothers'. This may indicate that one may have more of a genetic basis and the other more of an environmental basis).
There's also a variety of combinations cetaceans use to tell each other things besides whistles, like clicks, chirps, grunts, pops, groans, etc. Besides that they can identify human sounds to a degree and reproduce some. Besides that the larger dolphins like orcas have a larger range of frequencies than the smaller ones due to the size difference in the two bursas and the size and shape of the phonic lips in their heads....

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Gilbert I read a little paper bout ten year ago talked about your ceataceans and what they do with time and what the carry of thier conversation was, anyway the guy that wrote the paper was sure the whales we're circumventing time when they communicated, something about sonics and waves and leaving sound notes in the ocean and the enormous distances thier talk was carried on over.When I remember the title I'll see if I can get it aut of CBC archives. next week it might come to me.
 
TomG
#38
Disease is a human concept from a human perspective. Things just make livings in ways they are able. Making a living always has consequences though and is likely a disease from some perspective. Disease—old French, lack of ease.

Work is done to make a living, to convert resources into energy by metabolism. Work is making a living is a job is labour. Labour—Latin, toil, trouble.

Man finds his identity through work. Karl Marx (likely misquoted.)

Work, lack of comfort and disease. Man is work is labour is toil is lack of comfort is disease--tortured syllogism.

Beyond disease. Success in making living increases biological and social complexities. Complex structures are more fragile than simple ones and are more subject to catastrophic consequences from small effects. Effects cannot be avoided. We are self-limiting. We may be only the projected errors contained in our original conditions—tortured chaos theory.

Having fun yet? Well then, torture is lack of ease is work is trouble is a living is man. Man is an error contained in the original conditions. I’m only making tributes to Janus.

In Raven country, tie a piece of salami to a string and suspend it from a tree limb. A raven might land on the limb and pull up the string to get the salami (one of their favorites). Ravens that have been raised in isolation from other ravens can do this with no training or introduction what-so-ever. The solutions to such problems of making a living are inherent; the solutions are simply part of being a raven. Only humans are known to share this particular inherent problem solution. Ravens fly over my head and say QUORK. I reply QUARK. What ever that might mean. It makes me feel less diseased. Other creatures make their livings similar to me.

A large group of ravens on your case whoop and holler and carry on. They sound like they are having a great time—even if you aren’t. A group of ravens is called an unkindness. Other social groups make their livings as does mine.

Chipmunks will build food caches as long as supplies of food are available. During good years they may accumulate a several life-times food supply. Humans share inherent qualities with hoarding rodents—a morbid fear of starvation. Chipmunks though have no friends, not even among themselves. Chip and Dale were frauds. Chipmunks are locally self-limiting. Humans make their livings in work groups of toil and trouble. It takes chaos longer to catch up with us. Work groups are social units are organizations are complex...More Janus.
 
darkbeaver
#39
I squawk at the crows that hang arround myplace, there are chipmunks too, the place you occupy
sounds nice. Can I ask you about any observations you may have made about the counts among the various specis you encounter I'm missing many birds and insects and reptiles here in NS.
 
jimmoyer
#40
Disease is a human concept from a human perspective. Things just make livings in ways they are able. Making a living always has consequences though and is likely a disease from some perspective. Disease—old French, lack of ease.
-----------------------------------TomG--------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting post.

Disease is a human concept from a human perspective.

Other beings have no choice except that of Darwinian natural selection and gene mutation
all of which is not conscious, but rather a result of something with a "mind of its own" for lack
of a better description.

So disease is a human concept from a human perspective.

From day one we've alienated from "Gaia". And so alienation defines us, as it would
define any God.

 
jimmoyer
#41
Sorry for this bump, but I gotta do it.

At ease disease.

There's fungus among us.
 
darkbeaver
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyerView Post

Sorry for this bump, but I gotta do it.

At ease disease.

There's fungus among us.

Sweetness MasterJim.
 

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