The Sickness of Canadian Anti-Americanism


Tonington
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

So Canadians hate the American people.

Perhaps Canadians dislike the American policies, whom the people have made their government, and are dissapointed that your own compatriot would be chastised for having a different opinion or showing any kind of free thought in comparison to policy.

A democracy is supposed to work that way, and I would even say that in that sense, the people in the middle east, although using violence as a means actively practice freedom of assembly in opposition of their government, or foreign governments moreso than we in North America, without even having the right to do so.
 
selfactivated
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Perhaps Canadians dislike the American policies, whom the people have made their government, and are dissapointed that your own compatriot would be chastised for having a different opinion or showing any kind of free thought in comparison to policy.

A democracy is supposed to work that way, and I would even say that in that sense, the people in the middle east, although using violence as a means actively practice freedom of assembly in opposition of their government, or foreign governments moreso than we in North America, without even having the right to do so.


First off thank you fior acknowledging my queries in the first place.

Secondly, Ive read your posts on the electoral college thread and you have a strong knowledge on how we work (in my opinion dont work) We are NOT as a people represented. So in your opinion its the American Government that is hated NOT the people.
 
darkbeaver
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

So Canadians hate the American people.

No we don't, we hate what you allow your politicians to do. And that is not the same thing is it.
 
darkbeaver
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

Americans have never held their administration responsible for anything ever...
I have brothers-in-arms named on a wall in Washington DC and Americans seem to think it's good fun to wallow in the self-pity instead of holding their war-mongering administrations to account. No Beve Americans believe they're above any law, including their own when its not convenient to honor their own agreements and stated principles.
The argument that America is the only nation to act..is accurate although the impetus behind their preparedness to act is just as backward and just as corrupt as any religious precept from the tenth century. The wealthy will play at war, sacrificing their children and the children of their "declared" enemies. When the United States supplied Saddam Hussein with weapons and intel the hope was that Iran would be weakened enough to permit the U.S. to intervene at a later date at the behest of their government in Jerusalem.
Americans should get used to the idea that their government is in Jerusalem and not in Washington DC at all. All of these people, the Iraqis the Iranians the Israelis...the world...are pawns in a game being played by huge American multi-national corporations and to put George Bush or any of these war-monkeys on trial would mean putting the directors of the Carlyle Group on trial as well. There are Canadians on that board at Carlyle and I would have no problem of any kind if our government recinded...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
I still have hope mickydb,I'm not ready to give that up yet, soon but not now.
 
selfactivated
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

You want to get in on this too do you Self...

Where are your answers?

Where are your observations regarding this Canadian American relationship?

Perhaps you've become another China (the poster not the nation)...posing questions and waiting for the world to do their thinking for them...


Im here arent I? Im asking questions, looking for the big gurus to educate my small ignorant mind. Im a shut in Mikey I learn from my comp.
 
selfactivated
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

No we don't, we hate what you allow your politicians to do. And that is not the same thing is it.


No its not the same thing and thats the point im trying to drag out of your intellectual deriers. *kiss*
 
selfactivated
#67
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyDB
Americans have never held their administration responsible for anything ever...
I have brothers-in-arms named on a wall in Washington DC and Americans seem to think it's good fun to wallow in the self-pity instead of holding their war-mongering administrations to account. No Beve Americans believe they're above any law, including their own when its not convenient to honor their own agreements and stated principles.
The argument that America is the only nation to act..is accurate although the impetus behind their preparedness to act is just as backward and just as corrupt as any religious precept from the tenth century. The wealthy will play at war, sacrificing their children and the children of their "declared" enemies. When the United States supplied Saddam Hussein with weapons and intel the hope was that Iran would be weakened enough to permit the U.S. to intervene at a later date at the behest of their government in Jerusalem.
Americans should get used to the idea that their government is in Jerusalem and not in Washington DC at all. All of these people, the Iraqis the Iranians the Israelis...the world...are pawns in a game being played by huge American...

Quote has been trimmed
And just what would you have Joe Smoe do? Start an uprising?
 
darkbeaver
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

No its not the same thing and thats the point im trying to drag out of your intellectual deriers. *kiss*

Self the world has waited for a very long time for the American people to rise up and stop the madness, we cannot do it for you, for decades I'v watched America's best and brightest wasted on war and belittled when they spoke out against injustice. Curiosity and ITN will tell you that Canadians hate Americans, they do it to get acceptance of thier disease, they hide thier guilt behind the flag.And that's false patriotism of the most dangerous kind.
 
darkbeaver
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

And just what would you have Joe Smoe do? Start an uprising?

Find the revolution and join it, it's in a nieghbourhood near you.
 
darkbeaver
#70
If I really hated Americans I would have fired my intercontinental snowballs at Washinmachine long ago.
 
selfactivated
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Self the world has waited for a very long time for the American people to rise up and stop the madness, we cannot do it for you, for decades I'v watched America's best and brightest wasted on war and belittled when they spoke out against injustice. Curiosity and ITN will tell you that Canadians hate Americans, they do it to get acceptance of thier disease, they hide thier guilt behind the flag.And that's false patriotism of the most dangerous kind.


How longs a a long time relitively? 1776 isnt that long ago in the grande scheame of things Does Canada have NO internal prblems? Is your governmeent 100% representational of your people?
 
selfactivated
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Find the revolution and join it, it's in a nieghbourhood near you.

I do, I write letters. I do all my health and gas tank allows
 
darkbeaver
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

I do, I write letters. I do all my health and gas tank allows

Then we have no problem, 1776 is a bit farther back than I go, but my great great etc came from virginy she was a loyalist.My health and gas tank keep me out of the thick of it too.
 
selfactivated
#74
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Then we have no problem, 1776 is a bit farther back than I go, but my great great etc came from virginy she was a loyalist.My health and gas tank keep me out of the thick of it too.


Im not discounting your words or your passions you have a right to your pasttimes. I do ask that you look past the machine to people that are very lost and fustrated. We are leaderless and do not know how to fix things. We'd rather feed the world than distroy it. THATS Americans....the ones you close your eyes too.
 
#juan
#75

The topic title says it all: "The Sickness of Canadian Anti-Americanism". Could it be that any who disagree with American foreign policy are sick? No. I just think Canadians are sick of American arrogance. I don't say there isn't any anti-Americanism in Canada but it is hardly enough to label the whole country. Canadians strongly dislike arrogance and bullying,, particularly in a neighbor who is ten times as big and powerful. Canada has been allied with the U.S. in all the important wars, and we've sat out the stupid ones. Americans lost the war in VietNam and they are close to losing the war in Iraq. Any good will the Americans had in the world is being quickly dissapated by G.W. Bush and his cronies. Anti-Americanism is world wide. Canada is one of the last refuges of those who are not anti-American because of our geographical location.
 
darkbeaver
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

Im not discounting your words or your passions you have a right to your pasttimes. I do ask that you look past the machine to people that are very lost and fustrated. We are leaderless and do not know how to fix things. We'd rather feed the world than distroy it. THATS Americans....the ones you close your eyes too.

Goodnight self, sweetdreams
 
selfactivated
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Goodnight self, sweetdreams


Namaste
 
Cobalt_Kid
#78
I'm a duel citizen and have lived in both countries and each have their pluses and minuses.

My Family has seen the cost of seemingly pointless wars, I lost an Uncle to the Vietnam war and know many veterans who were treated like crap by their government and fellow citizens after they got home. I also have two cousins serving in Iraq at the moment and I don't spend any time thinking how great(or terrible) a country America is, I just want another pointless war over and my relatives home safe and sound.

Most Americans I know spend little time thinking about Canada and when they do it's often in pretty negative terms. Some think we're just a territory of the U.S. like Guam or Peurto Rico.

I'm glad we didn't go into Iraq, a majority of Americans are starting to realize it's a lost cause. As for the Cold War we did our part and had a moderating effect on the Americans that this article obviously ignores.

This topic seems to be more about anti-Canadianism if you ask me.
 
aaronphughes
#79
That is true. I grew up in Canada and spent 30 years there. I have lived in the US now for 2. Most Americans think about Canada about as often as a Canadian thinks about French Guyana. As in never. The only time I have seen any news on Canada was when they passed gay marriage, and that was like a 10 second mention.
 
selfactivated
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by Cobalt_KidView Post

I'm a duel citizen and have lived in both countries and each have their pluses and minuses.

My Family has seen the cost of seemingly pointless wars, I lost an Uncle to the Vietnam war and know many veterans who were treated like crap by their government and fellow citizens after they got home. I also have two cousins serving in Iraq at the moment and I don't spend any time thinking how great(or terrible) a country America is, I just want another pointless war over and my relatives home safe and sound.

Most Americans I know spend little time thinking about Canada and when they do it's often in pretty negative terms. Some think we're just a territory of the U.S. like Guam or Peurto Rico.

I'm glad we didn't go into Iraq, a majority of Americans are starting to realize it's a lost cause. As for the Cold War we did our part and had a moderating effect on the Americans that this article obviously ignores.

This topic seems to be more about anti-Canadianism if you ask me.

I dont find any of my posts anti Canadian. Ive asked questions and the answers Ive gotten on the most past support the OP article. Ive also explained my experience and knowledge of Canada are from these boards and friends online. I grew up in Massachussetts and to be quite frank the only thing I remember about politics or nations growing up are from my Authorian books I devoured and Canada was invented yet in those books. None of my friends had an opinion nor my parents nor my parents friends. Im learning a great deal on this site though. Oh yes my eyes are beginning to open.
 
I think not
#81
Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;

Before You Flee to Canada, Can We Talk?


By Nora Jacobson
Sunday, November 28, 2004; Page B02


TORONTO

I moved to Canada after the 2000 election. Although I did it mainly for career reasons -- I got a job whose description read as though it had been written precisely for my rather quirky background and interests -- at the time I found it gratifying to joke that I was leaving the United States because of George W. Bush. It felt fine to think of myself as someone who was actually going to make good on the standard election-year threat to leave the country. Also, I had spent years of my life feeling like I wasn't a typical American and wishing I could be Canadian. I wanted to live in a country that was not a superpower, a country I believe to have made the right choices about fairness, human rights and the social compact.

So I could certainly identify with the disappointed John Kerry supporters who started fantasizing about moving to Canada after Nov. 2. But after nearly four years as an American in the Great White North, I've learned it's not all beer and doughnuts. If you're thinking about coming to Canada, let me give you some advice: Don't.


Although I enjoy my work and have made good friends here, I've found life as an American expatriate in Canada difficult, frustrating and even painful in ways that have surprised me. As attractive as living here may be in theory, the reality's something else. For me, it's been one of almost daily confrontation with a powerful anti-Americanism that pervades many aspects of life. When I've mentioned this phenomenon to Canadian friends, they've furrowed their brows sympathetically and said, "Yes, Canadian anti-Americanism can be very subtle." My response is, there's nothing subtle about it.

The anti-Americanism I experience generally takes this form: Canadians bring up "the States" or "Americans" to make comparisons or evaluations that mix a kind of smug contempt with a wariness that alternates between the paranoid and the absurd.

Thus, Canadian media discussion of President Bush's upcoming official visit on Tuesday focuses on the snub implied by his not having visited earlier. It's reported that when he does come, he will not speak to a Parliament that's so hostile it can't be trusted to receive him politely. Coverage of a Canadian athlete caught doping devolves into complaints about how Americans always get away with cheating. The "Blame Canada" song from the "South Park" movie is taken as documentary evidence of Americans' real attitudes toward this country. The ongoing U.S. ban on importing Canadian cattle (after a case of mad cow disease was traced to Alberta) is interpreted as a form of political persecution. A six o'clock news show introduces a group of parents and children who are convinced that the reason Canadian textbooks give short shrift to America's failed attempts to invade the Canadian territories in the War of 1812 is to avoid antagonizing the Americans -- who are just waiting for an excuse to give it another try.

My noisy neighbors revel in Canada's two hockey golds at the 2002 Olympics because "We beat the Americans in America!" The first gay couple to wed in Ontario tells the press, before they say anything else, that they are glad they don't live in the United States. A PR person at the hospital where I work, who has been eager to talk to me about a book I've published, puts down her pen when she learns that I'm American and that the book is nearly devoid of "Canadian content."

More seriously, in the wake of 9/11, after the initial shock wore off, it was common to hear some Canadians voice the opinion that Americans had finally gotten what they deserved. The attacks were just deserts for years of interventionist U.S. foreign policy, the increasing inequality between the world's poorest nations and the wealthiest one on earth, and a generalized arrogance. I heard similar views expressed after Nov. 2, when Americans were perceived to have revealed their true selves and thus to "deserve" a second Bush term.

Canadians often use three metaphors to portray their relationship with the United States. They describe Canada as "sleeping with an elephant." Even when the elephant is at rest, they worry that it may suddenly roll over and crush them. They refer to the U.S.-Canadian border as "the longest one-way mirror in the world" -- Canadians peer closely at Americans, trying to make sense of their every move, while the United States sees only its own reflection. Finally, they liken Canada to a gawky teenage girl with a hopeless crush on the handsome and popular boy next door. You know, the one who doesn't even know she exists.

The self-image conveyed in these metaphors is timid and accommodating. Perhaps this is how Canadians see themselves (or would like to be seen), but my experience is that they are extremely aggressive (if somewhat passively so) when it comes to demonstrating their deep ambivalence toward Americans. Take the popular TV show "Talking to Americans," which simultaneously showcases Americans' ignorance about Canada and mocks Canadians' unhealthy preoccupation with what Americans really think of them. Of course, there's often something of the stalker in that gawky teenage girl, isn't there?

Part of what's irksome about Canadian anti-Americanism and the obsession with the United States is that it seems so corrosive to Canada. Any country that defines itself through a negative ("Canada: We're not the United States") is doomed to an endless and repetitive cycle of hand-wringing and angst. For example, Canadians often point to their system of universal health care as the best example of what it means to be Canadian (because the United States doesn't provide it), but this means that any effort to adjust or reform that system (which is not perfect) precipitates a national identity crisis: To wit, instituting co-payments or private MRI clinics will make Canada too much like the United States.

The rush to make comparisons sometimes prevents meaningful examination of the very real problems that Canada faces. (For me, it has become the punch line of a private joke that whenever anything bad happens here, the first response is a chagrined cry of "But we're Canadian!" -- the "not American" can be inferred.) As a Canadian social advocate once told me, when her compatriots look at their own societal problems, they are often satisfied once they can reassure themselves that they're better off than the United States. As long as there's still more homelessness, racism and income inequality to the south, Canadians can continue to rest easy in their moral superiority.

Many Canadians have American relatives or travel frequently to the United States, but a large number are pretty naive about their neighbors to the south. A university student confidently told me that there had been "no dissent" in the United States during the run-up to the Iraq war. Toronto boosters argue that American cities lack the ethnic diversity found in Canada's largest metropolis. The author of a popular book on the differences between the Canadian and American characters (a topic of undying interest here) promotes the view that Americans are all authority-loving conformists.
Ultimately, Canadian anti-Americanism says more about Canada than it does about the United States. Because some 80 to 90 percent of this country's trade is with the United States, the reality is that Canadians need Americans to sustain their economy and thus the quality of life they value. Such dependence breeds resentment. In "officially multicultural Canada," hostility toward Americans is the last socially acceptable expression of bigotry and xenophobia. It would be impossible to say the things about any other nationality that Canadians routinely say -- both publicly and privately -- about Americans. On a human level, it can be rude and hurtful. (As it was on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2001, when an acquaintance angrily told me that she would now have to curtail her travel plans because she was afraid she might be mistaken for an American.) And there's no way to argue against it. An American who attempts to correct a misconception or express even the mildest approval for the policies of U.S. institutions is likely to be dismissed as thin-skinned or offensive, and as demonstrating those scary nationalistic tendencies that threaten the world.

I felt a strong tug toward America when the borders shut for several hours on the afternoon of 9/11, and again after the election this month. Canadian friends were honestly shocked when I, a caricature of a bluestocking blue-stater (I've spent most of my life in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland and Wisconsin, with short stays in Washington state and the bluest part of Colorado), said that I would in many ways prefer to live in the United States, and not just because it's home. They assume that it's better, more comfortable, to be in a place seemingly more in tune with one's own political and philosophical leanings. Right after the election, many asked me if I would now apply for Canadian citizenship.

I don't intend to do that, because experiencing the anti-Americanism I've described has been instructive: Living here and coping with it has forced me to confront my own feelings about America. And it's helped me discover what I do value about it: its contradictions, its eccentricities, its expansive spirit, all the intensity and opportunity of a deeply flawed, widely inconsistent, but always interesting country. Perhaps I am a typical American, after all.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Nov26.html (external - login to view)
 
Cobalt_Kid
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

I dont find any of my posts anti Canadian. Ive asked questions and the answers Ive gotten on the most past support the OP article. Ive also explained my experience and knowledge of Canada are from these boards and friends online. I grew up in Massachussetts and to be quite frank the only thing I remember about politics or nations growing up are from my Authorian books I devoured and Canada was invented yet in those books. None of my friends had an opinion nor my parents nor my parents friends. Im learning a great deal on this site though. Oh yes my eyes are beginning to open.

sorry selfactivated, I was replying to the article that "I think not" posted not anyones replies. I should have been clear about that.
 
Cobalt_Kid
#83
"Thus, Canadian media discussion of President Bush's upcoming official visit on Tuesday focuses on the snub implied by his not having visited earlier. It's reported that when he does come, he will not speak to a Parliament that's so hostile it can't be trusted to receive him politely."

As I recall Bush met a great deal of hostility from his own citizens on his inaugeration day in 2001(20,000 angry protestors). He wasn't able to complete the last blocks of the trip on foot as is tradition because of the eggs and rotten fruit that would have pelted him if he'd gotten out of his limo.

Bush is one of the most unpopular Presidents in history. Canadians opposition to Bush can be seen as pro-American in my opinion, when you consider all the damage his administration has done to the U.S.

"Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;"

Seems to me, you're the one dealing with self denial issues.
 
selfactivated
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by Cobalt_KidView Post

"Thus, Canadian media discussion of President Bush's upcoming official visit on Tuesday focuses on the snub implied by his not having visited earlier. It's reported that when he does come, he will not speak to a Parliament that's so hostile it can't be trusted to receive him politely."

As I recall Bush met a great deal of hostility from his own citizens on his inaugeration day in 2001(20,000 angry protestors). He wasn't able to complete the last blocks of the trip on foot as is tradition because of the eggs and rotten fruit that would have pelted him if he'd gotten out of his limo.

Bush is one of the most unpopular Presidents in history. Canadians opposition to Bush can be seen as pro-American in my opinion, when you consider all the damage his administration has done to the U.S.

"Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;"

Seems to me, you're the one dealing with self denial issues.

lol ITN likes to drop bombs and watch the fireworks, I think that most dont bite as bad as they bark, I think its an exercise in intellect and fencing. I think as usual Im over my head trying to play in their ballfield.


Cobalt_Kid thank you for clarifying that for me (your other post)
 
earth_as_one
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;

Before You Flee to Canada, Can We Talk?


By Nora Jacobson
Sunday, November 28, 2004; Page B02

TORONTO

I moved to Canada....

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Nov26.html (external - login to view)

An interesting viewpoint by a "typical American". I think most Canadians would respect this mostly valid criticism of Canadian anti-Americanism.

Canadians should be more sensitive to the fact that the American government is not the American people and the US is a diverse nation.

But if she thinks anti-American sentiment is unfounded, she should have spent last summer in south Lebanon, while Israel was killing Lebanese civilians with American made bombs. Then she might understand anti-American snetiment better.

Quote:


Why I Hate America
And Why I'm Not Leaving
By MICKEY Z.
"Why do you hate America?"
This is a remarkably easy question to provoke. One might, for instance, expose elements of this nation's brutal foreign policy. Ask a single probing question about, say, U.S. complicity in the overthrow of governments in Guatemala, Iran, or Chile and thin-skinned patriots (sic) will come out of the woodwork to defend their country's honor by accusing you of being "anti-American." Of course, this allegation might lead me to ponder how totalitarian a culture this must be to even entertain such a concept, but I'd rather employ the vaunted Arundhati defense. The incomparable Ms. Roy says: "What does the term 'anti-American' mean? Does it mean you are anti-jazz or that you're opposed to freedom of speech? That you don't delight in Toni Morrison or John Updike? That you have a quarrel with giant sequoias?" (I'm a tree hugger remember? I don't argue with sequoias.)

Quote has been trimmed
 
Cobalt_Kid
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

lol ITN likes to drop bombs and watch the fireworks, I think that most dont bite as bad as they bark,

I'm getting that.
 
gopher
+1
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

It"s a sad fact Gopher, Americans are against this destruction I know it and you know it, but still it's going to happen. It truely is an example of the gutless yellow quizzling journalism more and more traded as wisdom.


You have a point there -- some of these hatemongers get paid for writing all kinds of worthless bullsh*t and this, undoubtedly, is what motivates them to write such scatological garbage.
 
Curiosity
#88
How typical Beaver....more Lotus Eater escapism.

You would rather your "perceived other side" keep quiet and not speak their opinions?

That would advance more harmony and intellectual discussion right?

Let's sweep oppositional thought from our talks and our minds and we won't spoil our day of comfort.

Let's all do a doobie, pour in a brew and let the good times roll...... kewl
 
darkbeaver
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

How typical Beaver....more Lotus Eater escapism.

You would rather your "perceived other side" keep quiet and not speak their opinions?

That would advance more harmony and intellectual discussion right?

Let's sweep oppositional thought from our talks and our minds and we won't spoil our day of comfort.

Let's all do a doobie, pour in a brew and let the good times roll...... kewl


Actually Curiosity I like what ITN and you are doing, pulled out from under the rocks the light of day whithers and burns to dust the mindless hate you spew. I wonder what a bit of grass would do to your poor mind? A truth you could not handle. You seem to have escaped to a mythical state of constant glorious war, and that's a poor miserable place to dwell. May Allah save you from poverty.
 
ottawabill
#90
this has alway been the most usless unproductive nature of Canada. We watched the U.S. break from the union in the late 1700's while we stayed under the protective wing with Mommy..(England). We watched the U.S. go buy a house..set up get a family create a flag etc etc... while we asked Mommy what we should do....

Of course the U.S. side of the family flurished bought many houses... new cars. trips vacations and the best of things...We sat still and said..we love you Mommy...

Then Mommy said your gettintg older..it's time to go out into the world...

So there we were with not much....as we watch our brother with all...we got green, we got envious....and thats where we are today...Doing the fox and grapes...saying how terrible our older brother is while secretly eyeing his house and car....

We could get that house and car to but we are to busy being green....
 

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