Death of multiculturalism in Europe.


Sassylassie
#1
Can a government really force integration? I can only imagine the outrage and riots if the changes in this article are inforced. Ouch, double ouch.



Europe's tolerance finds its limit

Death of multiculturalism



Geert Wilders, leader of the far-right Freedom Party, says the Netherlands is about to be engulfed by an "Islamic tsunami" and wants bans on building religious schools and mosques.
Photograph by : Jerry Lampen, Reuters




Peter Goodspeed, National Post
Published: Saturday, November 25, 2006
Tolerance may have died in Europe the day Mohammed Bouyeri murdered Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.
On the morning of Nov. 2, 2004, as Mr. van Gogh cycled to work in Amsterdam, the bearded young man in a long Middle-Eastern-style shirt fired at him with a handgun.
The mortally wounded filmmaker tried to run for cover. But the killer chased him, shot him once more and slit his throat from ear to ear.
Then, he plunged two knives, one with a five-page letter attached, into the body.
The note began: "This is my last word, riddled with bullets, baptized in blood ... "
It was filled with jihadist slogans and threats and contained a blood-curdling diatribe against Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born Dutch politician who had written the script of Mr. van Gogh's last film, Submission. The 10-minute short about the abuse of Muslim women had upset some Muslims because it showed sacred Koranic texts superimposed on a semi-naked woman.
Bouyeri's missive ended with a threatening chant: "I know for sure that you, O America, are going to meet with disaster. I know for sure that you, O Europe, are going to meet with disaster. I know for sure that you, O Holland, are going to meet with disaster."
The savagery of the killing triggered revulsion across Europe. Today, the continent is attempting to cope with increasingly bitter racial and religious squabbles and is riven with doubts about its future.
Decades of open-door immigration policies have transformed Europe through the arrival of several million immigrants, mostly Muslims, from North Africa, Turkey and Southwest Asia.
But as the region became one of the most multicultural regions on Earth, its people have gradually turned against the policies that made it this way.
From Amsterdam to Paris and Brussels to Berlin, politicians want to restrict immigration and force recent arrivals to integrate more thoroughly into their new homelands.
The Netherlands, where 6% of the country's 16 million people come from Islamic countries, has found itself at the forefront of a general hardening of European attitudes toward Muslim minorities.
In the two years since Mr. van Gogh's murder, the Dutch government has adopted sweeping reforms aimed at forcing immigrants to integrate more fully into society. Immigrants must now pass a language test within five years of arrival or risk being deported. They must also take special integration classes when they apply for a visa.
Rotterdam has published a code of conduct suggesting that immigrants speak Dutch when out in public and the government runs courses to train imams in Western values.
This week, elections in the Netherlands seemed to reinforce the growing distrust between the native and immigrant populations when the Freedom Party, a previously insignificant far-right fringe group, won nine seats in parliament.
Led by Geert Wilders, a strident radical who goes out of his way to insult Muslims and warn that the Netherlands is about to be engulfed by an "Islamic tsunami," the Freedom Party is now the fifth- largest in the Dutch parliament.
 
CDNBear
#2
That could be applied to any country that uses immagration to bolster its population and tax base.

Sadly, political suicide for whomever tried to bring it forth.
 
sanctus
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That could be applied to any country that uses immagration to bolster its population and tax base.

Sadly, political suicide for whomever tried to bring it forth.


I think part of the coming to a country is not just the living, but the adapting some of the elements of that country into your life. Not just planting roots and remaining pretty much the nationality you left, but in becoming a part of the mainstream of the nation you have entered.
 
CDNBear
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctusView Post

I think part of the coming to a country is not just the living, but the adapting some of the elements of that country into your life. Not just planting roots and remaining pretty much the nationality you left, but in becoming a part of the mainstream of the nation you have entered.

Can't argue with that.
 
Daz_Hockey
#5
I do a part time English course (although I have a degree, to complete my teaching post-grad I need to redo them all again, everyone does, it's a strange requirement, but hey) on a monday night, and most of the people in my class have English as a second language, and are generally middle-eastern.

As part of the course, we each had to perfom an oral presentation and lead a discussion. Now, this young British-Asian girl did her topic on corruption (or at least thts what it was, I asked why she'd called it "erruption" and that I didnt understand the use of the word in that context...she ignored me and said "yes erruption"), she banged on about poverty in India and how we as the west should feel privilidged that we have free healthcare and education and how we don't have poor and homeless people here like in asia.

Now I (and the Albanian behind me I might add) got VERY mad about this, I put my hand up and said "do you think this all happened in vacum?" and didn't she know "my ancestors and others fought bloody hard to get these things, we didnt have the greeks or romans come upon us and give us free education and healthcare, it is a right that needs to be fought for, it happens over time" it seemed to me that her generation of immigrants look at the place they fell upon and look down because we have these privilidges, kind of a snapshot view if you will.

Any route, she was wrong and her presentation awful, BUT, that wasnt the funny part. At the end, questions were asked by the audience, the Pakistani lady next to me asked her the following question "so, what do you consider yourself?", to which she replied "Although I was born in southampton, I will always consider myself indian, and although I've never been there, India is my home, I'm not british, I'm Asian".

To this, the Pakistani woman laughed, called her a silly girl (to me in a mutter) and stated that this is the problem with immigrants, they never try to fit in. I see this as large problem in Europe today. Although for me, the deathknell of multiculturalism for me, came about with the racist murder of the 15 year old white scottish boy by 5 asians simply because he was white, they stabbed him 25 times, and while still living, burned him to death.

disgustsend em all back.
 
I think not
#6
This multiculturalism business needs to go. Don't think for a moment government doesn't play a huge role in it. Here's an example;

Quote: Originally Posted by moghrabiView Post

Even when I was giving my oath to the Judge, she told me you be faithful to your mother country first. That is so honorable.

You can read the rest of the drivel here; forums.canadiancontent.net/568020-post71.html (external - login to view)

When government promotes "cultural mosaics", "multiculturalism" and the rest of the bull**** how do you expect an immigrant to integrate into society? Should they bring their culture with them? Sure, it only makes everyone better where that culture does not conflict with local laws.

Let's face it, even the left is beginning to realize multiculturalism is a farse, they just have no way to acknowledge their mistake with tact.

They don't integrate? Ship them back.
 
tamarin
#7
Well, when multiculturalism finally skulks off into the darkness, we need to hear some apologies from the grand architects of this silly experience. Like Kramer in his tirade lately, they need to try very hard to make amends for their stupidity. Sad thing is it's unmistakeable that three key cultural forces of the last three decades have walked in tandem: multiculturalism, the politically correct movement and feminism. The legion of adherents of the latter need to do some soul searching: what are you going to do about the mess you helped facilitate?
 
Daz_Hockey
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

This multiculturalism business needs to go. Don't think for a moment government doesn't play a huge role in it. Here's an example;



You can read the rest of the drivel here; forums.canadiancontent.net/568020-post71.html (external - login to view)

When government promotes "cultural mosaics", "multiculturalism" and the rest of the bull**** how do you expect an immigrant to integrate into society? Should they bring their culture with them? Sure, it only makes everyone better where that culture does not conflict with local laws.

Let's face it, even the left is beginning to realize multiculturalism is a farse, they just have no way to acknowledge their mistake with tact.

They don't integrate? Ship them back.

I just read that, that's not an unusual view you know ITN, their kid's are worse, the one's who are born here, you know one's we cannot legally get rid of. A good example would be the bombers of 7/7 in London. You know they were all born here right?.

And that girl in my example is exemplifies it all, she was born in the same hospital as me, has NEVER been to india, but gives nothing to British charities and still says she's "not British but Indian", someone asked her "but shouldnt charity begin at home", to which she replied "india is my home".
 
the caracal kid
#9
ITN, I disagree. Multiculturalism is not a failure. What we are witnessing is the formation of the next stage of global tribalism. A shift away from geopolitical borders to tribal/cultural collectives. It is fully expected that the entrenched see "their way" erroding and thus yell "multiculuralism is a failure", "ship them back". Of course, the ones yelling this should also be on the boats going back as well if they really supported such a notion. Humans migrate. The intermixing or close proximity of distinct cultures/tribes will result in a preservation and understanding of historical distincivenesses while allowing a global village to prosper. The geopolitical boundaries need to fall, and given the human element, the pathway to this is mulitculturalism. The age of empires is ending.
 
Daz_Hockey
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

ITN, I disagree. Multiculturalism is not a failure. What we are witnessing is the formation of the next stage of global tribalism. A shift away from geopolitical borders to tribal/cultural collectives. It is fully expected that the entrenched see "their way" erroding and thus yell "multiculuralism is a failure", "ship them back". Of course, the ones yelling this should also be on the boats going back as well if they really supported such a notion. Humans migrate. The intermixing or close proximity of distinct cultures/tribes will result in a preservation and understanding of historical distincivenesses while allowing a global village to prosper. The geopolitical boundaries need to fall, and given the human element, the pathway to this is mulitculturalism. The age of empires is ending.

That's an idealised view, but frankly, it's bollocks
 
I think not
#11
Daz

There is something wrong with the system Daz, I have seen first generation immigrants arriving in the US and years later they haven't integrated. That's fine and dandy, some of them come to make a few bucks and then go back home. That's also fine, everybody has a preference on how they want to live.

But, when these immigrants decide to stay and their children go through what I refer to sometimes as a "cultural shakedown", being they have been immersed in American culture, schools, institutions, museums and so forth I expect them to be integrated. I respect everybody's culture and traditions (even though I don't like some of them), it makes us richer as a country. But when certain immigrants want to "force" their way of life on a country, then get the hell out. I don't do that to you, if you want to live your life that way and then hop on a plane and go back home. Period.
 
the caracal kid
#12
only out of a desire to hold onto the past do you say that, daz.
 
I think not
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

ITN, I disagree. Multiculturalism is not a failure. What we are witnessing is the formation of the next stage of global tribalism. A shift away from geopolitical borders to tribal/cultural collectives. It is fully expected that the entrenched see "their way" erroding and thus yell "multiculuralism is a failure", "ship them back". Of course, the ones yelling this should also be on the boats going back as well if they really supported such a notion. Humans migrate. The intermixing or close proximity of distinct cultures/tribes will result in a preservation and understanding of historical distincivenesses while allowing a global village to prosper. The geopolitical boundaries need to fall, and given the human element, the pathway to this is mulitculturalism. The age of empires is ending.

Multiculturalism is a failure in the context in which it has evolved. This "evolution" now has a different meaning."Move the local culture aside because I refuse to be a part of it". It isn't a matter of the new culture being absorbed by the locals, but rather forced upon them. How is that a success?
 
Daz_Hockey
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

only out of a desire to hold onto the past do you say that, daz.

Nope, I say that because it's human nature.

Human's are stubborn animals, they do not generally like change, they dispise difference and effectivily I think this is the reason your view of the future is flawed.
 
tamarin
#15
Caracal, the big winners of tomorrow will be those cultures who took care of the centre. The West doesn't. With the decline and eventual demise of the West, those cultures we dismiss today will be in full ascendancy.
 
Sassylassie
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by tamarinView Post

Well, when multiculturalism finally skulks off into the darkness, we need to hear some apologies from the grand architects of this silly experience. Like Kramer in his tirade lately, they need to try very hard to make amends for their stupidity. Sad thing is it's unmistakeable that three key cultural forces of the last three decades have walked in tandem: multiculturalism, the politically correct movement and feminism. The legion of adherents of the latter need to do some soul searching: what are you going to do about the mess you helped facilitate?



How have the feminist helped the Multi Cult cause Tamarin?

How does a country deconstruct multi culturalism? The mere mention of this topic usually gets a person labeled a bigot or racist so how can we expect our Governments to deal with the issue. To date in Canada, regardless of the Party Colors, they proudly thump their chest and preen over how successful with Multi-Cult is. I read an essay titled Europe burning and it was a real eye opener, and rather frightening. Here in Canada we have Enclaves in Cities that are thriving where Sharia and Hindu law is allowed to be practice on the QT with narry a word from the public or government.
 
the caracal kid
#17
"evolution".... exactly! It is a process. In some cases the minority is pushing itself onto the dominant culture. This is necessary for it to firmly establish itself. Too much assimilation/amalgamation leads to the loss of distinctiveness. What we really are seeing is the whining of those that think they are being "pushed upon" out of their own myopia. Eventually balances will be struck, but these balances will result in a different world structure than has been seen before. This approach is more favorable to the alternative of a global monoculture.
 
the caracal kid
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

Nope, I say that because it's human nature.

Human's are stubborn animals, they do not generally like change, they dispise difference and effectivily I think this is the reason your view of the future is flawed.

indeed animals generally do not like change! However, people fear difference only out of ignorance, or view as a potential threat. Effective cross-cultral exposure removes that issue, and allows for more harmony. The map of the future will be quite different.
 
tamarin
#19
Sassy, the multicults and the feminists used the same weaponry to get ahead. Chief amongst them was victimhood. Victimhood put many a government on the defensive in the 80's and 90's. Seizing the opportunity provided by the more aggressive feminists ( some of whom did have a good case but lacked the foresight to interpret the consequences of their tactical choices), the multicults poured in. If women were oppressed couldn't the same also be said of cultures and their various minority groups? And didn't they deserve the same deference the feminists had won? There was a record of historical grievance to be addressed... Well, of course!
And the rest is history.
 
Sassylassie
#20
Good points Tamarin, have you noticed how silent the Feminist are regarding Muslim Males and Hindu Males enforcing tribal and Sharia law. Are they not the ones who should be speaking out against groups that use religion to discriminate against women? Yet not a word from this "Self Appointed" group of hairy chicks.
 
tamarin
#21
Good point, Sassy! But I like to hit where the most damage can be done. Feminists (and I like some of them!)are no more vulnerable than when discussing the state of girls today. Granted - and this is where I like them - girls have made impressive gains in educational training and achievement. But girls also are lost. They are hooked on celebrity crap, promiscuity, the cheap and hollow all in the name of 'cool' and they're making bad choices everywhere I look on relationships and friendships and personal habits (they must smoke a ton of cigs a day locally). Feminism brought in huge change and now has left its most vulnerable charges leaderless. It is despicable. (Getting to like that word!)
 
the caracal kid
#22
actually sassy, I have seen feminists speaking out quite loudly against religious gender discrimination.
 
I think not
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

"evolution".... exactly! It is a process. In some cases the minority is pushing itself onto the dominant culture. This is necessary for it to firmly establish itself. Too much assimilation/amalgamation leads to the loss of distinctiveness. What we really are seeing is the whining of those that think they are being "pushed upon" out of their own myopia. Eventually balances will be struck, but these balances will result in a different world structure than has been seen before. This approach is more favorable to the alternative of a global monoculture.

I'm all for a balance if I am reading you correctly.
 
Sassylassie
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by tamarinView Post

Good point, Sassy! But I like to hit where the most damage can be done. Feminists (and I like some of them!)are no more vulnerable than when discussing the state of girls today. Granted - and this is where I like them - girls have made impressive gains in educational training and achievement. But girls also are lost. They are hooked on celebrity crap, promiscuity, the cheap and hollow all in the name of 'cool' and they're making bad choices everywhere I look on relationships and friendships and personal habits (they must smoke a ton of cigs a day locally). Feminism brought in huge change and now has left its most vulnerable charges leaderless. It is despicable. (Getting to like that word!)

Tamarin I think the age of feminism is dead, I would like to see the funds alloted to the Status of Women or what ever it's called stopped asap (25,000 million devoted to what exactly) and a new fund for Equality for all regardless of sex. The young females today lack role models, even Opera spends most of her time dicussing being fat getting fat or dieting. I also think the young males of today are going down the same path as the females, this is the generation that will be taking care of my generation god help us.

Caracole wrote: actually sassy, I have seen feminists speaking out quite loudly against religious gender discriminate.

Yes they speak out against gender but where is their voice when women are being beaten because she is deem a lessor being than the male? Where is the feminist voice when females are being sexually mutilated? They are mute on the important issues but they roar when it comes to gender equality in the work force, those days are gone it's a dead horse and frankly women don't need them telling Corporate Canada what we want I didn't elect them and it's the Feds that hand them the money and their agenda is just that an agenda to keep the cash flowing so they can keep their rather posh jobs. Feminist are so out of touch with what is going on in society they are worse than the steriotypes that help found the movement.
 
the caracal kid
#25
yes, ITN, I am for balance.

sassy, when I said "religious gender discrimination" I was refering to feminists speaking out against female circumsision, etc, not corporate equality.
 
DurkaDurka
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

indeed animals generally do not like change! However, people fear difference only out of ignorance, or view as a potential threat. Effective cross-cultral exposure removes that issue, and allows for more harmony. The map of the future will be quite different.

All I have to say to that is... have you ever been to Toronto? Cross-Cultural exposure doesn't do squat, Toronto is a series of smaller cities defined by race... Downtown Toronto = Mostly White . Markham = Mostly Asian. Scarborough = blacks in the southern end, asians in the north end and so.
 
the caracal kid
#27
yes, durka, I have been to toronto (worked there on 3 work terms). Cross-cultural exposure and acceptance does work, but it needs to be more than lip-service. It has to be a collection of equals, which currently we tend to not see (which causes all this friction). Success comes from real cross-cultural experiences, not from the reinforcement of stereotypes. It needs to be guided and encouraged, which is what the essence of multiculturalism should be. Assimilation is not the answer. Assimilation generates the same problems as the teething-problems of multi-cult as well as leaving nothing but a culture of generics.
 
Sassylassie
#28
Sorry Caracal but I haven't heard a peep out of the feminist in NS or NFL on any subject that wasn't about the "Glass Ceiling".
 

Similar Threads

45
White women and multiculturalism....
by janbebe42 | May 20th, 2010
41
Canadian values vs. Multiculturalism
by Socrates the Greek | Apr 30th, 2010
0
Swedish Multiculturalism
by I think not | Dec 8th, 2006
2
Jean Praises Multiculturalism in B.C.
by FiveParadox | Mar 9th, 2006
5
Multiculturalism.
by American Voice | Jun 28th, 2004
no new posts