Rwandan Genocide was committed by Christians??


CDNBear
#31
Christians were againstt he genocide in Rwanda. Period. The genocide was caused by European influence, seperating africans into two sub categories. Hamites or Tutsi and the Hutu or Bantu. The Europeans deemed the Tutsi superior to the Hutu. And the Tutsi were cruel to the Hutu, to say the least.

When Rwanda gained independence, the majority took control of the country, that would be the Hutu, by shear numbers they were able to do so easily.

The Hutu, refused to recognise the Tutsi as Rwandans.

Then there was the killing. There was no sign of god there. Be sure of that.
 
EastSideScotian
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Christians were againstt he genocide in Rwanda. Period. The genocide was caused by European influence, seperating africans into two sub categories. Hamites or Tutsi and the Hutu or Bantu. The Europeans deemed the Tutsi superior to the Hutu. And the Tutsi were cruel to the Hutu, to say the least.

When Rwanda gained independence, the majority took control of the country, that would be the Hutu, by shear numbers they were able to do so easily.

The Hutu, refused to recognise the Tutsi as Rwandans.

Then there was the killing. There was no sign of god there. Be sure of that.

Yes, The Tutsi also had an Army which was invadeing Rawanda from the refugee camps....from the first time the Hutu chased the Tutsi out.
 
CDNBear
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by EastSideScotianView Post

Yes, The Tutsi also had an Army which was invadeing Rawanda from the refugee camps....from the first time the Hutu chased the Tutsi out.

Yep and God and crosses were nowhere to be seen.

BTW, LG Dallaire, is a great man, he saw it coming. But the typical ROE BS and silly thoughts in the suites, just couldn't get on board.
 
EastSideScotian
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Yep and God and crosses were nowhere to be seen.

BTW, LG Dallaire, is a great man, he saw it coming. But the typical ROE BS and silly thoughts in the suites, just couldn't get on board.

It had an awful outcome...Its sad how the UN wouldnt even listen or take for value the urgent Situation Dallaire had told them was coming, and the fact that they wouldnt not impower him to stop it or back him up with the equipment to do so.
 
CDNBear
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by EastSideScotianView Post

It had an awful outcome...Its sad how the UN wouldnt even listen or take for value the urgent Situation Dallaire had told them was coming, and the fact that they wouldnt not impower him to stop it or back him up with the equipment to do so.

I've seen the suits leave good men out standing in the wind, because they lack the courage to, or the back bone to, take a stand or do what is right. I've also seen them die because of it. It all comes down to public opinion and winning votes.

So I take it you are agreeing with me? I don't get alot of that here,lol.
 
EastSideScotian
#36
I agree with you. I agree with most self aware and Internationaly aware people who know the facts.
 
Researcher87
#37
Quote:

The bible versus the Koran is a mute argument, 200-2000 years ago Christians were invaders of other Nations today we are a civilised society that respects all religions including Islam, hindu, wicca, the church of the rising sun. It doens't matter in the West we are all free to practice any religion. Islam is a backward Religion in most countries it dehumanizes women and children. For those defenders of extreme Islam ask yourself this: Why are Muslims killing so many Muslims? Irag, brother against brother. Afghanistan Muslim against Muslim, the Sudan Muslim killing Muslims and christians when they take a break from killing fellow Muslims. Give me ONE example of Christians killing Muslims on mass, you can't because it isn't happening. Nice try trying to deflect this issue as being a Christian versus Islam issue but the fact is world wide Extreme Islam is raging a holy war against it's own followers. It is the Christians that go into these backward countries and provide food, medicine, aide, doctors, while Muslims kill Muslims in the name of Allah Christians clean up the blood that drips off their unholy vile hands.

That is so funny. In Nigeria, in 2004 Christians killing people, Rwanda, other places and you call yourself civiliZED.

Back to Colpy, you said New Testament which points to the fact that the good book has been edited to take out those other "phrases or verses".

The first one said something like "go out and convert the pagans". Which is either through good or violent means just like the Koran. The only book that remains true to itself is the Koran which is the only one to never be edited.
 
EastSideScotian
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87View Post

That is so funny. In Nigeria, in 2004 Christians killing people, Rwanda, other places and you call yourself civiliZED.

Back to Colpy, you said New Testament which points to the fact that the good book has been edited to take out those other "phrases or verses".

The first one said something like "go out and convert the pagans". Which is either through good or violent means just like the Koran. The only book that remains true to itself is the Koran which is the only one to never be edited.

Why the hate/distaste on Christains? We have never said we are Perfect, we have the Crusades, whitch hunts, and Protsent Catholic wars....... Anyone Muslim Jew and Christain can be misled.

And whos to say which Christain is a Christain some may hide under the title, but God Knows their true Intentions, Need you not worry your head, God will take care of the Christains, Jews and Muslims for their actions.
 
earth_as_one
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by SassylassieView Post

The bible versus the Koran is a mute argument, 200-2000 years ago Christians were invaders of other Nations today we are a civilised society that respects all religions including Islam, hindu, wicca, the church of the rising sun. It doens't matter in the West we are all free to practice any religion. Islam is a backward Religion in most countries it dehumanizes women and children. For those defenders of extreme Islam ask yourself this: Why are Muslims killing so many Muslims? Irag, brother against brother. Afghanistan Muslim against Muslim, the Sudan Muslim killing Muslims and christians when they take a break from killing fellow Muslims. Give me ONE example of Christians killing Muslims on mass, you can't because it isn't happening. Nice try trying to deflect this issue as being a Christian versus Islam issue but the fact is world wide Extreme Islam is raging a holy war against it's own followers. It is the Christians that go into these backward countries and provide food, medicine, aide, doctors, while Muslims kill Muslims in the name of Allah Christians clean up the blood that drips off their unholy vile hands.

Today we are a civilized society? Really?

Just look at all the anti-Muslim BS posted on this website. Religious intolerance is hardly civilized.

Look at the war crimes our leaders have committed in Iraq. The west's war crimes in the middle east far exceed the crimes committed on 9/11, in terms of loss of life and damage to infrastructure.

Iraq is a far more dangerous place than it was before it was "liberated".


Recently Lancet released a second survey to determine how much deadlier Iraq has become.

Quote:

Lancet surveys of mortality before and after the 2003 invasion of Iraq

...The second survey, published on 11 October (external - login to view) 2006 (external - login to view), estimated 655,000 deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population. [1] (external - login to view) The new study applied similar methods and involved surveys during May and June 2006. Considerably more households were surveyed, allowing for a relatively tighter claimed 95% confidence interval of 393,000 to 943,000 excess Iraqi deaths...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_...vasion_of_Iraq (external - login to view)

Using fear and misinformation to manipulate the general population into supporting an unprovoked war which has resulted in an estimated 655,000 deaths (2.5% of the population) is hardly civilized.

Also, the death and destruction in Iraq has been increasing steadily ever since the invasion.



So don't preach that we are superior in some way, because we aren't.
 
CDNBear
#40
earth, as much as I like your input, this is about Rwanda. And Rwanda wasn't about Christians killing non Christians, it was a bigoted class war. Pure and simple. Kind of like some of the minds around here, without the pure.
 
gopher
+1
#41
it was a bigoted class war. Pure and simple. Kind of like some of the minds around here, without the pure.

Sorta like racist white "Christians" killing Ixil Christians in Guatemala, right?
 
Dexter Sinister
#42
Yeah, some of the people involved might call themselves Christians, but I think they're lying or deluded. They don't represent any version of Christianity that makes any sense to me. Same in Northern Ireland: nominally Catholics versus Protestants, both Christian sects, and they euphemize it nicely by calling themselves republicans or reformers or something like that. But whatever those people are, Christians they are not. Any person who truly understands and has internalized Christ's message would not behave that way. Even an unrepentant old atheist like me can recognize that much. Jesus may or may not have been divine (I vote not) and the Son of God (again I vote not), but he spoke good sense according to all the reports we have of him. Mostly. Care for each other, love one another, help each other, seems like pretty elementary morality to me. People who can't or won't do that, people who will draw an artificial line between themselves and certain others who are trivially different, cannot legitimately call themselves Christian. The essence of Christianity, according to everything I've read about it, is that it's inclusive, accepting, and forgiving. Can you ask for better than that? I don't think so.
 
Colpy
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

Yeah, some of the people involved might call themselves Christians, but I think they're lying or deluded. They don't represent any version of Christianity that makes any sense to me. Same in Northern Ireland: nominally Catholics versus Protestants, both Christian sects, and they euphemize it nicely by calling themselves republicans or reformers or something like that. But whatever those people are, Christians they are not. Any person who truly understands and has internalized Christ's message would not behave that way. Even an unrepentant old atheist like me can recognize that much. Jesus may or may not have been divine (I vote not) and the Son of God (again I vote not), but he spoke good sense according to all the reports we have of him. Mostly. Care for each other, love one another, help each other, seems like pretty elementary morality to me. People who can't or won't do that, people who will draw an artificial line between themselves and certain others who are trivially different, cannot legitimately call themselves Christian. The essence of Christianity, according to everything I've read about it, is that it's inclusive, accepting, and forgiving. Can you ask for better than that? I don't think so.

Good post, Dexter.

Thank you.

Although I personally increasingly accept the deeply held religious view of my parents.........
 
gopher
+1
#44
Excellent post Dex. You should get lots of good rep points for that one (you certainly did from me).

But note how Jesus said that not only are those who take bad actions sinful, those who even think bad thoughts about others are equally sinful. Even the thought constitutes evil according to him. Therefore, those who are prejudiced, hateful, demand death or suffering of innocents, and who wish harm upon anyone are just as sinful as those who commit such harm.

That would put the salvation of a lot of so-called Christians on this forum who wish harm upon innocent Muslims into divine jeopardy.
 
EastSideScotian
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

That would put the salvation of a lot of so-called Christians on this forum who wish harm upon innocent Muslims into divine jeopardy.

Yea pretty sad. I have to keep pointing out to several Members, the Love your Neighbour Part of the Bible. It also doesnt say one single thing about Hating Muslims I might ad. If a Muslim wishes to hate a Christain, thats fine with me, how does it effect anything.

Thruth is Christains are Historicly perfect, and it seems to members on this forum like to act like we are. We arent, but we can work on it now and here. Same goes for Muslims and Jews.

It also is interesting to whtach people who are blindly pro-islam too, and make it seem like thye are the ones that are the good guys. Id like to point out that, these "muslims" are nothing but extreamist who hide behind their faith, and feel it nessary to act like it is thier faith to get the acceptance and followers from true Muslims...But they are not true Muslims and they should not be felt badly for ethier.
 
ottawabill
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by EastSideScotianView Post

Yea pretty sad. I have to keep pointing out to several Members, the Love your Neighbour Part of the Bible. It also doesnt say one single thing about Hating Muslims I might ad. If a Muslim wishes to hate a Christain, thats fine with me, how does it effect anything.

Thruth is Christains are Historicly perfect, and it seems to members on this forum like to act like we are. We arent, but we can work on it now and here. Same goes for Muslims and Jews.

It also is interesting to whtach people who are blindly pro-islam too, and make it seem like thye are the ones that are the good guys. Id like to point out that, these "muslims" are nothing but extreamist who hide behind their faith, and feel it nessary to act like it is thier faith to get the acceptance and followers from true Muslims...But they are not true Muslims and they should not be felt badly for ethier.

THANK YOU!!

you have made the point I had been trying too but without the same results....

The faith and teahings are perfect..it is the followers who are flawed....then people jump all over these flawed charaters and attach their actions to the religon..a silly move...
 
hermanntrude
#47
this genocide was not commited by christians but by evil bastards. categorisation. labelling. causes trouble.

I can tell u they weren't christians because any half-decent christian would know that a major rule (known to the experts as a "commandment" is "thou shalt not kill". If someone breaks a commandment can you call them a christian? Possibly. If they repeatedly break it in the space of a few hours? probably not.
 
ottawabill
#48
I know many who call themselves by a religous label, who never go to their church, never think twice about it, or the faith, but if asked will tell you they are Catholic, Anglican , Jewish faith etc..

My God, Northern Ireland conflict was all twisted around 2 sects of the faith when the whole thing was between British occupation, and Irish freedom... Just that the only noticable difference you could come up with was the 2 ways they practiced their faith......That is abusing the faith, it has little to do with what is expected of you and only gives ammunition to some faith haters on this forum.
 
gopher
+1
#49
www.counterpunch.org/cook02222005.html (external - login to view)

Elie Wiesel said of the Nazi perpetrators of the holocaust: "All the killers were Christians The Nazi system was the consequence of a movement of ideas and followed a strict logic; it did not arise in a void but had its roots deep in a tradition that prophesied it, prepared for it, and brought it to maturity. That tradition was inseparable from the past of Christian, civilized Europe." Wiesel's observation implies that the Nazi holocaust uitlized the belief structures in the church and the faithful's acceptance of them as articulated by their leaders to carry forward the devastation of the Jews. Both trends were in operation as the Nazi leadership imposed its will on the German citizenry while enunciating the innate superiority of the German nation.



naturally, some critics here will say "blame Muslims" ...
 
hermanntrude
#50
i'll say it again.

If we blame it on any one group of people we will effectively be slandering some of the members of that group. To blame "christians" for one awful situation is to blame millions of people who actually do follow the commandments and actually DON'T kill people or hurt them or do anything deemed wrong by the bible without at least seeking forgiveness and trying not to do it again. To blame "muslims" "hindus" "schizophrenics" or "black people" for any attrocity just tars the whole group, most of whom were not involved, with the same brush. It's wrong. Don't do it.

I agree that various religions have in their writings and philosophies some words which can be used (abused) in order to make up some spurious justification for committing horrible crimes. But this is ABuse and the decision to do it or not do it lies with the individual.
 
ottawabill
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrudeView Post

i'll say it again.

If we blame it on any one group of people we will effectively be slandering some of the members of that group. To blame "christians" for one awful situation is to blame millions of people who actually do follow the commandments and actually DON'T kill people or hurt them or do anything deemed wrong by the bible without at least seeking forgiveness and trying not to do it again. To blame "muslims" "hindus" "schizophrenics" or "black people" for any attrocity just tars the whole group, most of whom were not involved, with the same brush. It's wrong. Don't do it.

I agree that various religions have in their writings and philosophies some words which can be used (abused) in order to make up some spurious justification for committing horrible crimes. But this is ABuse and the decision to do it or not do it lies with the individual.

Amen!!
 
the caracal kid
#52
hermanntrude,

I agree with you on the dangers and effects of broad categorization.

However,

We must be also aware of the dangers of revisionism such as we see in modern times with "revisonist christianiy", for example.
 
EastSideScotian
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

hermanntrude,

I agree with you on the dangers and effects of broad categorization.

However,

We must be also aware of the dangers of revisionism such as we see in modern times with "revisonist christianiy", for example.

Whats a Revisonist Christain In your OPinion?
 
ottawabill
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

hermanntrude,

I agree with you on the dangers and effects of broad categorization.

However,

We must be also aware of the dangers of revisionism such as we see in modern times with "revisonist christianiy", for example.

I just wonder do you have more than one issue (thought) in your head kiddo
 
the caracal kid
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by EastSideScotianView Post

Whats a Revisonist Christain In your OPinion?

When we look at the basis of "what it takes to be a christian?", we see it ultimately boils down to acceptance/beleif that a man died on a cross AND rose from the dead. Thats it. Thats all it takes to be a christian. Revisionist christians are people that decide they don't like a particular part of the theology and/or history and thus proclaim it not part of "the real christianity". This has happened exactly how so many sects of christianity formed. The danger is in thinking that somehow "that is not a real christian" actually somehow erases the history and the potential for that history to repeat itself.

Quote: Originally Posted by ottawabillView Post

I just wonder do you have more than one issue (thought) in your head kiddo

thousands. how about you?
 
Dexter Sinister
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

... ultimately boils down to acceptance/beleif that a man died on a cross AND rose from the dead. Thats it. Thats all it takes to be a christian.

Surely it's a little more subtle than that, isn't it? Don't you also have to believe certain things about who he was, why he died, and what it's supposed to mean?
 
the caracal kid
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

Surely it's a little more subtle than that, isn't it? Don't you also have to believe certain things about who he was, why he died, and what it's supposed to mean?

The rising from the dead ties into the why and who, but the critical point is that he did rise from the dead. (otherwise he was just another doomsday prophet of the time, of which there were many)
 
Dexter Sinister
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by the caracal kidView Post

...the critical point is that he did rise from the dead.

Granted, that is the critical point , but it's not the only point. It's a necessary but not a sufficient condition. Other cultures have believed other characters rose from the dead--Osiris for instance--but that didn't make them Christians. There's a little more to it than simply a belief in one person's resurrection.
 
the caracal kid
#59
yes, it is the particular person that was resurected that makes them christians.

If we look at all the christian sects, it is the belief that Jesus rose that is common. Granted, the secondary core beliefs are he was "the son of god" and "he died for your sins". Past that though, it becomes a game of theological interpretation (or which camp you belong to, paulist for example)
 
LittleRunningGag
#60
Quote:

The essence of Christianity, according to everything I've read about it, is that it's inclusive, accepting, and forgiving.

Unfortunately, there are far too few 'true' Christians out there. If people would just follow their religion, without trying to force their beliefs upon everyone else, the rest of us would be happy.

The old adage of people sucking applies. Far too many people rely on their religious leaders to guide them, instead of making educated decisions on their own. And many (not all, or most) of those leaders abuse their positions to propogate their own hate-filled version of their religion.
 
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