Were Residential Schools Effective in Destroying First

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
22
38
Oshawa ON
It's obvious that residential schools weren't supportive of native culture but looking at today's reserves and the problems endemic there you can't help but think- these people should be doing a helluva lot better. I'm sympathetic to native cultural needs but I'm also disturbed by the fragility of the family structure on reserves and the failure of parenting. First Nations children need guidance at home; they're not getting it.
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
I understand where you are coming from. And that might be where my article leads. The Residential schools were successful they almost wiped out most languages, and they may have been successful in destroying the links that held aboriginal communities together in the past and today it is what could be coined (neo-traditional).
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
22
38
Oshawa ON
It's all chicken and egg. I should think native culture was doomed the moment Europeans set foot on North American soil. It was up to the early chiefs to organize resistance. Trade goods broke down resolve and the rest is history.
But at some point native peoples have to make the transition to the new reality- the modern economy. I haven't the least doubt residential schools came about as the government gave up trying to convince native elders of the importance of basics like an education and took the matter into its own hands. It failed miserably but what existed before the attempt was failure too.
Today the failure continues. First Nations desperately need leaders and role models who can lay it on the line: it's time to join the 21st century!
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
21
38
not in Kansas anymore
The residential schools were an attempt to bring the natives into the society that surrounded them. It worked in some cases but not all. The culture of victimhood that is rampant throughout the native community today has magnified the abuses while minimizing the successes.Still today the natives resist "white man's" education,even though education is what is most needed.The schools did not wipe out thier languages,the parents who neglected to teach thier young did that.Languages die off because they outlive thier usefullness,for many reasons.Latin,ancient greek,and hundreds of tribal dialects the world over. If the need for language is so important to thier culture,the elders and parents would teach thier young themselves,not leave it up to Ottawa. Even in these" enlightened "times,parents on reserves who want thier children to succeed will send thier kids to off-reserve schools.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
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not in Kansas anymore
Also,I must add,your initial post about the effectiveness of destroying thier culture makes one wonder if you are being quite biased and trying to find "facts" to back up your presumption that the intent was to destroy culture raqther than educate about the world in which they live.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
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Also,I must add,your initial post about the effectiveness of destroying thier culture makes one wonder if you are being quite biased and trying to find "facts" to back up your presumption that the intent was to destroy culture raqther than educate about the world in which they live.

Exactly wallyj, did these schools destroy Native Culture? NO. Natives have been returning to their roots in spite of Residential Schools, their language, traditions, crafts, dancing all because the Elders are teaching them the old ways. They lost a decade but they are gaining speed on who and what it means to be a Native Canadian again.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
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Das Kapital
If the need for language is so important to thier culture,the elders and parents would teach thier young themselves,not leave it up to Ottawa.

Many on reserves do just that at home and in their schools. There are also aboriginal headstart programs for pre-schoolers in major cities that teach some basic elements of certain languages and of course cultrual practices. These programs are developed by aboriginal people and implimented by people within their community, NOT Ottawa.

Of course, in some places like James Bay, Cree is their mother tongue with english being taught as a second language. Cultural continuity takes precident there.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
21
38
not in Kansas anymore
And pray tell,who do you think pay for the Headstart programs? Do you think the James Bay Cree children will be able to cope in the modern world using Cree as thier main language or would they be better off using English? Don't be a boinopsy.
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
The residential schools were an attempt to bring the natives into the society that surrounded them. It worked in some cases but not all. The culture of victimhood that is rampant throughout the native community today has magnified the abuses while minimizing the successes.Still today the natives resist "white man's" education,even though education is what is most needed.The schools did not wipe out thier languages,the parents who neglected to teach thier young did that.Languages die off because they outlive thier usefullness,for many reasons.Latin,ancient greek,and hundreds of tribal dialects the world over. If the need for language is so important to thier culture,the elders and parents would teach thier young themselves,not leave it up to Ottawa. Even in these" enlightened "times,parents on reserves who want thier children to succeed will send thier kids to off-reserve schools.

I have noted successes in the article I am writing. However, one needs to ask if the issues that are brought on today like gang violence, and family violence, and alcohol abusr and sexual assaults not only did they occured before I believe, before residential schools however, was it a result of the destruction of First Nation culture that has led to this increase in such incidents.
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
It's all chicken and egg. I should think native culture was doomed the moment Europeans set foot on North American soil. It was up to the early chiefs to organize resistance. Trade goods broke down resolve and the rest is history.
But at some point native peoples have to make the transition to the new reality- the modern economy. I haven't the least doubt residential schools came about as the government gave up trying to convince native elders of the importance of basics like an education and took the matter into its own hands. It failed miserably but what existed before the attempt was failure too.
Today the failure continues. First Nations desperately need leaders and role models who can lay it on the line: it's time to join the 21st century!

Do you even know what Natives did before. They taught them in their own style and it was extremely effective in their way of being. Through stories and through practical hands on experience.

Exactly wallyj, did these schools destroy Native Culture? NO. Natives have been returning to their roots in spite of Residential Schools, their language, traditions, crafts, dancing all because the Elders are teaching them the old ways. They lost a decade but they are gaining speed on who and what it means to be a Native Canadian again.

Lost a decade, what the f* are you talking about. Residential schools were from 1850 to 1996, that is not one decade. That to be exact is 146 of Residential school, which from your statement would go on the other side of the argument and state that Residential schools were not effective and they were able to keep their culture anyway and thought up ways to keep that culture going even during the height of residential school era.
Also,I must add,your initial post about the effectiveness of destroying thier culture makes one wonder if you are being quite biased and trying to find "facts" to back up your presumption that the intent was to destroy culture raqther than educate about the world in which they live.

The main purpose was not to educate them it was to assimilate them, as one priests writes, to "rip the Indian out of the Indian." So Residential schools were designed to destroy their culture.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I think it's great you are researching the topic to write on it. The only thing I would suggest is trying to gather your information before drawing conclusions. It's human nature to come up with a conclusion and research the areas that will support our own conclusion. And when you do write it try to be independent in your analysis. The less bias that comes across the more effective it will sound.

Good luck and keep up the hard work!

Edit: to add that even the title could be made to sound more neutral. Like "The Effect of Residential Schools on First
Nations Culture in Canada". Just a thought.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
And pray tell,who do you think pay for the Headstart programs? Do you think the James Bay Cree children will be able to cope in the modern world using Cree as thier main language or would they be better off using English? Don't be a boinopsy.


Why pray tell don't you do a google search and find out for yourself instead of being a butthead?

Funding vs design and implementation are not the same thing. As for James Bay, I'll wait and see what you find out, mmmmkay?
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Researcher wrote: Lost a decade, what the f* are you talking about. Residential schools were from 1850 to 1996, that is not one decade. That to be exact is 146 of Residential school, which from your statement would go on the other side of the argument and state that Residential schools were not effective and they were able to keep their culture anyway and thought up ways to keep that culture going even during the height of residential school era.

Nasty nasty, sunshine I was refering to the time a single "Student" was at the school. I hope this isn't a term paper because you have already drawn conclusion that you can't prove. The fact that Native Culture still exist negates your childish rant. The Native Community is strong and vital, despite the wrongs that have been done to it.
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
I don't think residential schools destroyed First Nations Culture, but they did try. What they did do is ruin lives for some. But thanfully many First Nations Tribes still practice their culture.
I'm reading a good book called Three Day Road about two ojibwe who fight in the first world war. They are sent to a residential school as children and it talks about what that was like a little. The book is based on real-life aboriginal war heros.
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
Researcher wrote: Lost a decade, what the f* are you talking about. Residential schools were from 1850 to 1996, that is not one decade. That to be exact is 146 of Residential school, which from your statement would go on the other side of the argument and state that Residential schools were not effective and they were able to keep their culture anyway and thought up ways to keep that culture going even during the height of residential school era.

Nasty nasty, sunshine I was refering to the time a single "Student" was at the school. I hope this isn't a term paper because you have already drawn conclusion that you can't prove. The fact that Native Culture still exist negates your childish rant. The Native Community is strong and vital, despite the wrongs that have been done to it.

Every indian children going for ten years affect the community.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
1,230
21
38
not in Kansas anymore
Why pray tell don't you do a google search and find out for yourself instead of being a butthead?

Funding vs design and implementation are not the same thing. As for James Bay, I'll wait and see what you find out, mmmmkay?
Well excuse me!! 25 million TAX dollars a year to design and implement a program to do what the parents should be doing at home in the first place. Well done,the "victims" have come up with another way to shirk thier responsibility and get paid for it. This is not a shining accomplishment but rather another example of failure. It may be a great program,but why is it needed? Someone is not doing thier job at HOME. Thanks for the butthead jibe,namecalling always follows a juvenile argument. As for the claim of residential schools existing from 1850 to 1996,please do some research.That is just not true.
 

gc

Electoral Member
May 9, 2006
931
20
18
As for the claim of residential schools existing from 1850 to 1996,please do some research.That is just not true.

I don't know the exact date they started, but those dates sound pretty reasonable.

The origins of the residential school system predate Confederation and in part grew out of Canada's missionary experience with various religious organizations. The Federal Government began to play a role in the development and administration of this school system as early as 1874, mainly to meet its obligation, under the Indian Act, to provide an education to Aboriginal people, as well as to assist with their integration into the broader Canadian society.

The last federally run residential school in Canada closed in Saskatchewan in 1996

I assume the Government of Canada is a reliable enough source.

Link number two