Were Residential Schools Effective in Destroying First


Researcher87
#1
Were Residential Schools Effective in Destroying First
Nations Culture in Canada
That is the article I am writing for FNAT.
 
tamarin
#2
It's obvious that residential schools weren't supportive of native culture but looking at today's reserves and the problems endemic there you can't help but think- these people should be doing a helluva lot better. I'm sympathetic to native cultural needs but I'm also disturbed by the fragility of the family structure on reserves and the failure of parenting. First Nations children need guidance at home; they're not getting it.
 
Researcher87
#3
I understand where you are coming from. And that might be where my article leads. The Residential schools were successful they almost wiped out most languages, and they may have been successful in destroying the links that held aboriginal communities together in the past and today it is what could be coined (neo-traditional).
 
tamarin
#4
It's all chicken and egg. I should think native culture was doomed the moment Europeans set foot on North American soil. It was up to the early chiefs to organize resistance. Trade goods broke down resolve and the rest is history.
But at some point native peoples have to make the transition to the new reality- the modern economy. I haven't the least doubt residential schools came about as the government gave up trying to convince native elders of the importance of basics like an education and took the matter into its own hands. It failed miserably but what existed before the attempt was failure too.
Today the failure continues. First Nations desperately need leaders and role models who can lay it on the line: it's time to join the 21st century!
 
wallyj
#5
The residential schools were an attempt to bring the natives into the society that surrounded them. It worked in some cases but not all. The culture of victimhood that is rampant throughout the native community today has magnified the abuses while minimizing the successes.Still today the natives resist "white man's" education,even though education is what is most needed.The schools did not wipe out thier languages,the parents who neglected to teach thier young did that.Languages die off because they outlive thier usefullness,for many reasons.Latin,ancient greek,and hundreds of tribal dialects the world over. If the need for language is so important to thier culture,the elders and parents would teach thier young themselves,not leave it up to Ottawa. Even in these" enlightened "times,parents on reserves who want thier children to succeed will send thier kids to off-reserve schools.
 
wallyj
#6
Also,I must add,your initial post about the effectiveness of destroying thier culture makes one wonder if you are being quite biased and trying to find "facts" to back up your presumption that the intent was to destroy culture raqther than educate about the world in which they live.
 
Sassylassie
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyjView Post

Also,I must add,your initial post about the effectiveness of destroying thier culture makes one wonder if you are being quite biased and trying to find "facts" to back up your presumption that the intent was to destroy culture raqther than educate about the world in which they live.

Exactly wallyj, did these schools destroy Native Culture? NO. Natives have been returning to their roots in spite of Residential Schools, their language, traditions, crafts, dancing all because the Elders are teaching them the old ways. They lost a decade but they are gaining speed on who and what it means to be a Native Canadian again.
 
Said1
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyjView Post

If the need for language is so important to thier culture,the elders and parents would teach thier young themselves,not leave it up to Ottawa.

Many on reserves do just that at home and in their schools. There are also aboriginal headstart programs for pre-schoolers in major cities that teach some basic elements of certain languages and of course cultrual practices. These programs are developed by aboriginal people and implimented by people within their community, NOT Ottawa.

Of course, in some places like James Bay, Cree is their mother tongue with english being taught as a second language. Cultural continuity takes precident there.
 
wallyj
#9
And pray tell,who do you think pay for the Headstart programs? Do you think the James Bay Cree children will be able to cope in the modern world using Cree as thier main language or would they be better off using English? Don't be a boinopsy.
 
Researcher87
#10
Quote:

The residential schools were an attempt to bring the natives into the society that surrounded them. It worked in some cases but not all. The culture of victimhood that is rampant throughout the native community today has magnified the abuses while minimizing the successes.Still today the natives resist "white man's" education,even though education is what is most needed.The schools did not wipe out thier languages,the parents who neglected to teach thier young did that.Languages die off because they outlive thier usefullness,for many reasons.Latin,ancient greek,and hundreds of tribal dialects the world over. If the need for language is so important to thier culture,the elders and parents would teach thier young themselves,not leave it up to Ottawa. Even in these" enlightened "times,parents on reserves who want thier children to succeed will send thier kids to off-reserve schools.

I have noted successes in the article I am writing. However, one needs to ask if the issues that are brought on today like gang violence, and family violence, and alcohol abusr and sexual assaults not only did they occured before I believe, before residential schools however, was it a result of the destruction of First Nation culture that has led to this increase in such incidents.
 
Researcher87
#11
Quote:

It's all chicken and egg. I should think native culture was doomed the moment Europeans set foot on North American soil. It was up to the early chiefs to organize resistance. Trade goods broke down resolve and the rest is history.
But at some point native peoples have to make the transition to the new reality- the modern economy. I haven't the least doubt residential schools came about as the government gave up trying to convince native elders of the importance of basics like an education and took the matter into its own hands. It failed miserably but what existed before the attempt was failure too.
Today the failure continues. First Nations desperately need leaders and role models who can lay it on the line: it's time to join the 21st century!

Do you even know what Natives did before. They taught them in their own style and it was extremely effective in their way of being. Through stories and through practical hands on experience.

Quote:

Exactly wallyj, did these schools destroy Native Culture? NO. Natives have been returning to their roots in spite of Residential Schools, their language, traditions, crafts, dancing all because the Elders are teaching them the old ways. They lost a decade but they are gaining speed on who and what it means to be a Native Canadian again.

Lost a decade, what the f* are you talking about. Residential schools were from 1850 to 1996, that is not one decade. That to be exact is 146 of Residential school, which from your statement would go on the other side of the argument and state that Residential schools were not effective and they were able to keep their culture anyway and thought up ways to keep that culture going even during the height of residential school era.
Quote:


Also,I must add,your initial post about the effectiveness of destroying thier culture makes one wonder if you are being quite biased and trying to find "facts" to back up your presumption that the intent was to destroy culture raqther than educate about the world in which they live.

The main purpose was not to educate them it was to assimilate them, as one priests writes, to "rip the Indian out of the Indian." So Residential schools were designed to destroy their culture.
 
Kreskin
#12
I think it's great you are researching the topic to write on it. The only thing I would suggest is trying to gather your information before drawing conclusions. It's human nature to come up with a conclusion and research the areas that will support our own conclusion. And when you do write it try to be independent in your analysis. The less bias that comes across the more effective it will sound.

Good luck and keep up the hard work!

Edit: to add that even the title could be made to sound more neutral. Like "The Effect of Residential Schools on First
Nations Culture in Canada". Just a thought.
 
Said1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyjView Post

And pray tell,who do you think pay for the Headstart programs? Do you think the James Bay Cree children will be able to cope in the modern world using Cree as thier main language or would they be better off using English? Don't be a boinopsy.


Why pray tell don't you do a google search and find out for yourself instead of being a butthead?

Funding vs design and implementation are not the same thing. As for James Bay, I'll wait and see what you find out, mmmmkay?
 
Sassylassie
#14
Researcher wrote: Lost a decade, what the f* are you talking about. Residential schools were from 1850 to 1996, that is not one decade. That to be exact is 146 of Residential school, which from your statement would go on the other side of the argument and state that Residential schools were not effective and they were able to keep their culture anyway and thought up ways to keep that culture going even during the height of residential school era.

Nasty nasty, sunshine I was refering to the time a single "Student" was at the school. I hope this isn't a term paper because you have already drawn conclusion that you can't prove. The fact that Native Culture still exist negates your childish rant. The Native Community is strong and vital, despite the wrongs that have been done to it.
 
Gonzo
#15
I don't think residential schools destroyed First Nations Culture, but they did try. What they did do is ruin lives for some. But thanfully many First Nations Tribes still practice their culture.
I'm reading a good book called Three Day Road about two ojibwe who fight in the first world war. They are sent to a residential school as children and it talks about what that was like a little. The book is based on real-life aboriginal war heros.
 
Researcher87
#16
Quote:

Researcher wrote: Lost a decade, what the f* are you talking about. Residential schools were from 1850 to 1996, that is not one decade. That to be exact is 146 of Residential school, which from your statement would go on the other side of the argument and state that Residential schools were not effective and they were able to keep their culture anyway and thought up ways to keep that culture going even during the height of residential school era.

Nasty nasty, sunshine I was refering to the time a single "Student" was at the school. I hope this isn't a term paper because you have already drawn conclusion that you can't prove. The fact that Native Culture still exist negates your childish rant. The Native Community is strong and vital, despite the wrongs that have been done to it.

Every indian children going for ten years affect the community.
 
Researcher87
#17
And this is not a highschool or university paper this is to be published. So I can have whatever opinion I want. If the facts don't support my argument I will state it.
 
wallyj
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87View Post

And this is not a highschool or university paper this is to be published. So I can have whatever opinion I want. If the facts don't support my argument I will state it.

Are you saying that if you are wrong,you will admit it but stick to your argument anyways? OMG,that is hilarious.
 
wallyj
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Said1View Post

Why pray tell don't you do a google search and find out for yourself instead of being a butthead?

Funding vs design and implementation are not the same thing. As for James Bay, I'll wait and see what you find out, mmmmkay?

Well excuse me!! 25 million TAX dollars a year to design and implement a program to do what the parents should be doing at home in the first place. Well done,the "victims" have come up with another way to shirk thier responsibility and get paid for it. This is not a shining accomplishment but rather another example of failure. It may be a great program,but why is it needed? Someone is not doing thier job at HOME. Thanks for the butthead jibe,namecalling always follows a juvenile argument. As for the claim of residential schools existing from 1850 to 1996,please do some research.That is just not true.
 
gc
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyjView Post

As for the claim of residential schools existing from 1850 to 1996,please do some research.That is just not true.

I don't know the exact date they started, but those dates sound pretty reasonable.

Quote:

The origins of the residential school system predate Confederation and in part grew out of Canada's missionary experience with various religious organizations. The Federal Government began to play a role in the development and administration of this school system as early as 1874, mainly to meet its obligation, under the Indian Act, to provide an education to Aboriginal people, as well as to assist with their integration into the broader Canadian society.

Quote:

The last federally run residential school in Canada closed in Saskatchewan in 1996

I assume the Government of Canada (external - login to view) is a reliable enough source.

Link number two (external - login to view)
 
wallyj
#21
Yes,you are right.I stand corrected. In my defense though,the schools before 1930 and after 1960 were few in number and few in students. Also,throughout the early years,residential had many meanings,not what we consider the residential schools that allegedly caused so much hardship.
 
Researcher87
#22
I don't really loose in my argument. I really have two ideas going did natives keep their culture even during residential schools or was it effective and destroy it or most of it and is that is why we have the condition today.
 
Researcher87
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyjView Post

Yes,you are right.I stand corrected. In my defense though,the schools before 1930 and after 1960 were few in number and few in students. Also,throughout the early years,residential had many meanings,not what we consider the residential schools that allegedly caused so much hardship.

No in the 1930s, there was still 46 to 72 depends on what someone considers a residential school going on. 16 I believe in B.C I found in one of my articles, and with roughly 200 children each school about 25,000 students or less.
 
Researcher87
#24
SO just to inform everyone my argument is I am proposing that

Residential Schools there main objective was to destroy Indigenous culture and were they successful or did Aboriginals adapt to keep their culture.

Now I know I don't expect to see either two extremes but I have seen a little bit of both so far for both sides of the argument and it will depend on the reader.
 
Kreskin
#25
The truth is always closer to the middle.
 
Researcher87
#26
I agree. Now to note Hidden From History, states that 50,000 people died in these schools. So I have been looking at the other books, and some of the others have stated about T.B deaths and some beating deaths, one book for a whole five pages recounted how one little girl was beaten by one nun than after hitting a second she was beaten by both nuns. Then she was beaten by the principle and then taken to the medical center on the third floor where she later died.

So people did die at these places but then there is the other side of it as well.

And this is kind of what I am not looking at, the murder and deaths have been documented I am looking to see if Residential schools were successful or not in their objective and some state so especially with parenting for Aboriginal people today and some say no.
 
Kreskin
#27
The difficult part is comparing to what? How do you know what the culture would be today without the residential school program? Are they more assimiliated than they were 100 years ago or more? Would they not be more assimiliated anyway? Would it be the right thing to do to completely segregate Native Indians from our education system in order to preserve culture? Would they benefit from that? Only speculation and conjecture can answer the questions.
 
Researcher87
#28
Quote:

The difficult part is comparing to what? How do you know what the culture would be today without the residential school program? Are they more assimiliated than they were 100 years ago or more? Would they not be more assimiliated anyway? Would it be the right thing to do to completely segregate Native Indians from our education system in order to preserve culture? Would they benefit from that? Only speculation and conjecture can answer the questions.

Well for some Aboriginals this assimilations didn't start to the 1930s so they would be able to hear the stories from their elders and if it did survive they ca explain it to the children of today.

But you do raise good points and it can be difficult to figure out the what, when, why, where and who did it back then and how it could be the same if Residential schools never touched them or if somthing even heinous would have been thought up by authorities if Residential schools were created.

Hopefully some information can be answered aleast a few questions.
 

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