All we are saying is give peace a chance


selfactivated
#1
As Ive been wandering these halls and participating a bit Ive noticed something and Id Love to hear how you all feel about my observation.......... Ive noticed that borders are very important to most. That sides are especially important. And my question is this, what if we put all that energy into tearing down those borders and erasing the line in the sand so there are no sides? Could the world survive? Is it possible to have peace? Or is it just an Aery Faery idea that will never come to pass?
 
Mogz
#2
Human nature is conflict. While I myself believe that certain nations or ethnic groups on this planet could easily disarm and maintain a long lasting peace with the support of police officers, there are others that could not. I'm not going to get in to finger pointing, but i'm sure everyone on these forums can rattle off a list of nations that'd be willing to sue for World peace, and those that would not. In reality however, that'll never happen. The World is too diverse, there are too many religions, and too many social imbalances that would simply hinder any serious attempt at disarmament.
 
missile
#3
Peace on Earth will only occur when the population is down to 1
 
Machjo
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by missile

Peace on Earth will only occur when the population is down to 1

So who will it be?

More seriously though, I don't think it's possible foe one individual to create world peace. Perhaps he could promote more unity, which would increase the chances of peace in the long term. This could involve teaching your child about other religions and teaching them other languages. If we can better understand one anothers' religions and languages, that alone would already be a big step in the right direction. What about having your kid visit a local synagogue one Saturday, or church one Sunday, or mosque one day to just make new friends? Have we got buddhist friends? Can we speak any other language? If so, why not make friends or pen friends in the language, etc.
 
selfactivated
#5
Maybe Its just my simple mind, but it seems to me that if we look at the micro of it in our own lives, the dinamics we have on a personal basis (bear with me) When we fight it just really sucks. We feel horrible and we want to fix it right away.

OK

On the macro its the same feeling......it sucks. Why not fix it? It will feel so much better as a whole if we just release our resentments and anger and FEAR.


Just my two cents
 
HonestAbe
#6
Borders will never go away, and people will never stop choosing sides, and the world would not be a better place if people did give all of that up, and it has nothing to do with, "resentments and anger and FEAR," so you might as well get used to it.
 
selfactivated
#7
No Sweetheart I will never get used to it. I know we are better than what we are now. I KNOW we can BE more than warring fractions. I see peices of our future here and there all over the internet. Small fractions growing and teaching by example. There's threads on this site proving that. Like this one.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forum...ic.php?t=14976

I have hope and faith that if we allow just the thought to exist we WILL find that Peace.
 
Jay
#8
Sure I have no problem with eliminating the boarders, as long as all the boarders are absorbed into the USA, and we get to live under it's constitution.
 
HonestAbe
#9
Unfortunately, you grew up in a school system similar to mine, where all of your influences growing up were unrealistic liberal teachers who took it upon themselves to change the world. In theory, it's a good plan, in reality though, not all humans will accept that everyone was born to live together in peace and harmony. There is more crime today than there ever was, more corruption. It's a messed up world we live in, but we can't hide from reality and hope for a day when people can live and let live. We can't do that, because it is impossible for it to happen. Crime is evident around the world, and we need borders and warring fractions in order to keep the most dangerous of criminals in line. Please reconsider your views on society, because I'm afraid you might get hurt.

Also, I'm down with Jay, he's got a good idea going.
 
selfactivated
#10
No I dont think I'll change my mind but thank you for your concern As for being hurt? More so than not BUT I still see potential in every single person. I know I sound ...... what? Oh I know.....like a tree hugger LOL I am. And my idea of reality is changing what does not serve me well. So I smile at grumpy old ladies, and laugh at children misbehaving in the store (mom's lighten up if you do) I strike up conversations with the neighborhood "gothe" kids (you should have seen their faces the first time I pointed out a squirell on the phone wire LOL priceless!) I used to tutor neighborhood gang members in bakersfield......4 of them graduated and went to college! Little things. Little things bring down that crime rate. Start with a smile.
 
Jay
#11
That's great selfactivated! Good work!
 
selfactivated
#12
LOLLLLLLLLLLL IY YI YI !!! Thanks?
 
Jay
#13
Quote:

So I smile at grumpy old ladies, and laugh at children misbehaving in the store (mom's lighten up if you do) I strike up conversations with the neighborhood "gothe" kids (you should have seen their faces the first time I pointed out a squirell on the phone wire LOL priceless!) I used to tutor neighborhood gang members in bakersfield......4 of them graduated and went to college! Little things

I can respect that can't I?
 
selfactivated
#14
I'm sorry I thought you were being sarcastic Please forgive my misreading your intention.
 
HonestAbe
#15
Ah, so you are the liberal teacher who is taking it upon herself to change the world. Unfortunately, not everyone can be you.
 
Naci_Sey
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivated

What if we put all that energy into tearing down ... borders and erasing the line in the sand so there are no sides? Could the world survive? Is it possible to have peace?

There are at least three assumptions here:
1. that having a border means taking a side;
2. that taking a side means being incompatible with any other group or nation;
3. that taking a side which may be incompatible with another group or nation means peace is not possible between them.

On 1, a border may be more for domestic purposes than for any international reasons. E.g., it defines the population, who pays taxes, to whom laws apply, who may qualify as beneficiaries of government services, who may run for political office, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean taking a position that is opposed to those who do not live within that nation's or group's borders.

On 2, you may be assuming that there are only two sides, whereas it may make more sense to think of world views as facets on a geodesic dome (external - login to view).

On 3, even if we supposed that there were only two sides to anything, it isn't necessarily the case that the two sides couldn't agree to disagree.
 
selfactivated
#17
Thank You Naci_Sey I see your point but I think I didnt make my analagy clear enough. My meaning was not that there are just two sides, of course you are right there are many sides, There are many panels to this quilt we call earth. Just as there are in your dome. But if you look at your dome and notice all the panels connect and create ONE sphere. If one panel eradicated another it would compromise your dome, Would it not? But if all the panels connect in harmony then the sphere is strong. Im not as bright as most of you but thats how I see it.
 
mabudon
#18
I have to say that I agre with the topic's poster- I really do NOT believe that the whole "social darwinsist" take on humanity is anywhere near correct, more a myth perpetuated by those who would prosper on the misfortunes of others...

As a race we have pretty much mastered the physical realm in a way that even the far-sighted thinkers of aeons past could not have imagined, yet still there are those who would say that our "bestail" tendencies would always take precedence over reason,compassion and ingenuity. I think that peace will only happen when the "meek" inherit (what's left of) the earth (one of the only things in the Bible I stand behind 100%)

the proud, the vicious, they should be left to the wayside..

And by meek I certainly do NOT mean those who are ashamed or otherwise unable to "stand up for themselves and take what they need before the opportunity is lost"

I mean those truly enlightened ones among us who see the chance at absolute perfection that our race is in the unique position to ACTUALLY achieve, sooner or later by being prudent and mindful...

But alas, there most certainly ARE barbarians among us, and a fine day it will be when they've all beaten their chests so much as to make them cave in...

There will always be "the strong" and the "vulnerable" and balance must be maintained, but Power without understanding is meaningless, as the "human nature is to kill each other and try to die with the most toys" perspecitve illustrates so richly; such people cannot even acknowledge otherwise, and it must be a sad way to experience reality.

I too, hope that eventually the meek will rise and inherit what is rightly theirs (ours?? I dunno, I'm kind of a jerk and DO have my vices) and the barbarians die out just like all the stupid, vicious anu=imals before them (like bears in europe, killed off because they were too dangerous and too stupid to be left alive)

Funny topic
 
selfactivated
#19
Your post makes my words seem like coal compared to your diamonds. Thank you for your input. I truely enjoyed reading it.
 
Naci_Sey
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by mabudon

I have to say that I agre with the topic's poster - I really do NOT believe that the whole "social darwinsist" take on humanity is anywhere near correct, more a myth perpetuated by those who would prosper on the misfortunes of others...

Sooo right!

Quote:

I too, hope that eventually the meek will rise and inherit what is rightly theirs (ours?? I dunno, I'm kind of a jerk and DO have my vices) and the barbarians die out just like ... bears in europe, killed off because they were too dangerous and too stupid to be left alive.

This comment reminds me of one of my favourite books, The Gate to Women's Country (external - login to view), by Sheri S. Tepper. I don't want to give the plot away; suffice it to say that the story takes place in a post-nuclear world, most (by no means all) men and boys over 5 yrs of age live in a military-like encampment, play military games, engage in the occasional battle and see themselves as the guardians of Women's Country - the region on the other side of the gate. Selfactivated, I think you might enjoy this book. Lots of interesting, unusual ideas to play with.

BTW, selfactivated, you wrote of yourself as 'not as bright' as the rest of us. You're mistaken. There's all kinds of intelligence, one being emotional intelligence. Seems to me you place higher on that scale than far too much of humanity.
 
HonestAbe
#21
Alright, well, it seems that this thread has turned into a "dream" thread, meant to take all of you away from the present reality that we all are living in. So, as such, I'll stop commenting on it. However, I'll suggest that anybody who wishes to deal with issues that will be affecting all of us in the real world, feel free to come back to reality at anytime.
 
Cosmo
#22
Interesting topic. I'm wearing my asbestos suit here making this reply ....

Sounds good in theory, selfactivated, but in practice it doesn't work that way. We can, on a personal level, do the small things that bring joy to us and those around us. That, imho, is what elevates us above the other mammals.

But underneath it all, we are predators. Top of the food chain. I used to subscribe to the theory, "The meek shall inherit the earth ... because the strong will trample them into it" but have modified that hard line philosophy over the years. I still believe in social Darwanism on a global level, but feel that I don't have to bear that out on a personal level. The evolution goes on with or without my small contribution.

I'm nice to folks too. I enjoy the vast range of people I am blessed enough to encounter. I love to get to know a bit about what's behind the social mask of people. I am honestly interested and people respond well to that. I enjoy life and those I share it with, but I have no illusions that humans are somehow exempt from the laws of nature.

We're thinking meat. Animals. We have instincts and drives that are beyond our control. Sure it would be nice to drop the borders, share the world wealth, play nice with everyone, but that kind of Utopia just can never work with human beings. We can't go against who we are. Remember the story about the turtle and the scorpion? "Because it's my nature" is the punch line.

I don't see this as a failing. I see it as a strength. When we can overcome that self serving predatory urge, we are elevated spiritually on an individual level. When we can empower the weak, serve our fellow humans, do some good, it makes us more than our baser beginnings.

Trouble is, we can't rely on everyone to do that. There's always going to be predatory people who revel in the role. And I, for one, will not sit back and become a willing meal for those people. I believe that helping others consists of teaching them to defend themselves rather than doing the defending for them. That's the only way we can grow within the laws of social Darwanism.

The strong do survive. The weak and the martyrs may be remembered, but they aren't enjoying a walk in the sunshine or a good meal or a piece of beautiful music. I'd rather not be one of them.

Ok ... fire away
 
Naci_Sey
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by HonestAbe

Alright, well, it seems that this thread has turned into a "dream" thread, meant to take all of you away from the present reality that we all are living in. So, as such, I'll stop commenting on it. However, I'll suggest that anybody who wishes to deal with issues that will be affecting all of us in the real world, feel free to come back to reality at anytime.

Dreams are the stuff of hope and for some of us, hope drives action. Nothing wrong with dreams if they impel us to make change.
 
selfactivated
#24
Naci_Sey Thank you for that kind comment it made my heart swell

Cosmo said:
Quote:

Interesting topic. I'm wearing my asbestos suit here making this reply ....



And you look Maaaavalous in it too may I add.

Ok......first things first.....social Darwanism? I think that means we evolve as a society, stairstepping up? The strongest surving. Is that right?

You spoke about personal values, being kind, doing for others (like volunteering your time here ). If I read you right you said you enjoy doing that and it makes you personally feel good. But in your opinion the "world value" is basically "Dog eat Dog" I may have missed it but I think that was it in basics.

When you do something kind for another person how do you think that person feels? (retoricle ) I would think pretty good. I know that your kindness this morning set my outlook for the day (thank you by the way ) I in turn called a friend and sang her happy birthday (LOL poor thing Im SOOOO off key!) She in turn was kinder to her hubby (he owes me one )Now on top of all that as I was at the Pharmacy I started a conversation with a woman that wasnt feeling well, and while I was waiting and we talked she laughed. When she walked out of the store she was smiling and stood a bit taller. Do You see a pattern? Ripple effect?

Now, When the "norm" is kindness and the [not norm] is the A-Typical (negative) behavior doesnt that fit into your formula? Its still "darwism" but with Positive (kind) behavior as the majority (stronger). In my heart I just cant believe we are animals (not in the way you meant) We are cerebral and emotional beings (meaning we follow basic emotions Love/Fear) When we consciously choose a higher thought or feeling we are choosing to be the stronger.


wow I think my brain hurts LOL
 
JonB2004
#25
There will never be world peace. Never!
 
Jay
#26
Quote:

Isahia 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

That's when there will be peace on earth, untill then, we will learn war.
 
Cosmo
#27
selfactivated ... I understand your point and applaud your efforts on a personal basis, but I maintain that we are predatory mamals and we cannot escape all that comes with that.

I agree the ripple effect has an impact, over time, on small subsections of society. While it can indeed make life more joyful for individuals, you're never going to change human nature in any significant way. Nice to think it could happen, but I personally don't believe it.

As for your quote, Jay, it kinda assumes we buy what the bible is selling. Again, I personally, do not. It's a good read if you're stuck in a hotel with no access to TV, but I certainly don't find it offers up logical arguments that would influence my life.

I think everyone should play nice. But they don't. *shrug* Then again, if we all agreed, what would we fight about here at CC??
 
Naci_Sey
#28
Talk about 'human nature' can present all kinds of problems. When I hear people saying that it's human nature to be this or that, I just shake my head. If challenged, I could point to someone who is an exception to the 'rule' and if I can find one, then it makes sense to think that there are many others.

Individual human beings are so different from one another. To suppose that there is a single fundamental 'nature' to all humans (such as 'predator') defies both logic and empirical evidence.
 
dekhqonbacha
#29
I don't think that people will ever live in peace and within the single border. There are certain circomstances that don't allow this to happen: people want more, there are always extremists in all nations and religions.

The more things human have, the more they want. One key element to peace is to sacrifie some of your disposition. If americans and canadians were to live within single border, one of the nations should abondon its political intitutions and currency. Who is ready?

People are divided into different religion and nationality. Even though you respect someone's else religion, this does not solve all the problem. There are people who see other religion as infidels. They restrict their followers to cooporate with other nations.

In order to achieve peace, one should sacrifie some of values s/he has. As long as people believe in different faith, they cannot form one nation under the same roof. These things restric humans to live in peace.
 
selfactivated
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

Quote:

Isahia 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

That's when there will be peace on earth, untill then, we will learn war.

Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004

There will never be world peace. Never!



This (with out sounding condincending cause im not meaning it that way) makes me sad. I feel fear in these posts. Why does Peace scare the hell out of people?


Cosmo I have a fantastic book I sugest you read and if you cant find a copy I'll lend you mine it's called 2150AD by Thea Alexander its an amazing book that has convinced be we are NOT Preditors we are cerebral and emotional beings. How are we to claim that we are evolved if we say we are preditors? dekhqonbacha I may be wrong because Im not real educated on all of this but the nomads (I believe) existed without any borders at all and if they didnt belong with on group or another they just moved on or started their own (Im sure someone will let me know if Im misinformed. )
 

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