The bastardization of Language


View Poll Results: Are literacy standards declining, and should there be a more diciplined approach to the teaching of
Yes 13 86.67%
No 2 13.33%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

JoeyB
#1
I'm sure we all take shortcuts when we need to write something down quickly, notes to remind ourselves, cryptic messages for a laugh or for some sort of secrecy, but what I'm about to post here, given to me by a long-time friend and Spanish teacher in North Carolina. I won't mention the school, but instead will mention it is a private school.

here goes:

Some literature I confiscated in class today.
Lovers of the English language, beware. This is going to hurt.

Ryan MIGHT be becoming my bf. I'm not sure yet. lol I was singin' "Georgia," and I said, "We'll clean out your dirty mouth." This fool said, "Girl, I'ma clean out your dirty mouth." BTW, can I have a piece of gum?

Chea dat sounds fun?!? lol. um ... I dun have gum I got it 4rom O'Gurl in da Back! Deres dis girl in dis class dat she's always messin wit DJ's hair in 2nd.

Who? OMG! u gotta find me a dude.

Dat white girl in the back wearing da pink shirt and kacky sweater. yup yup!
Who da hell! I'ma match maker not find ur soul mater!

Damn! That's some ****! He be lettin' her? That ain't cool. U r smart. U can do that 4 me. Just find me somebody that'll talk to me.

I wont be doin dat right now, I got my problems 2 solve wit right now but chea I'll see everyone gotz a girl!!! Yea I'ma just ask her if she likes DJ?

Ok. cool. Do u know that new dude, here? I don't know him, but he is fine! lol jus' playin'.

he is fine! so many ppl are tryin' 2 get wit him! U have him 4 any class?

Nah. What's his name? Who is talkin' 2 rite now, though.

Alex, No one I dun thynk? I Dunno he seems 2 serious I Dunno.

When will u see him again?

I see him in da hallways sometimes?

Do u talk 2 him?

No, I'd lyk 2 tho.

do me a fav., talk 2 him 2day & give him my cell #.

Uh-Uh! I dun just wanna go up 2 him and be like "hey here u go".

Not like dat! lol. just tell him dat your friend saw him & wanted 2 talk 2 him. If u don't wanna, ask someone else 2 do it.

And scene: I saw them writing probably around "No, I'd lyk 2 tho," and went and picked up the note after the last line, which was being passed with a new sheet of paper so the saga could continue. On the one hand I was a little embarrassed that it was as long as it was before I caught them, but I'm glad I have it to share

I have to thank JJ for sharing but my question is this:

Have literacy standards dropped?, Is this really just an example of cryptology?

I know we all passed notes around school, for some of us the memories are still with us in the knuckle scars or fond recollections of the strap / cane.

I know this kind of writing style isn't a fantastic example of literacy standards, however it does beg me to ask questions like; "Why do they not teach correct reading comprehension, grammar and punctuation?" ...and if they DO in fact have literacy standards, what are these standards and why am I feeling so upset about this?

I was taught the 'Queens' English' (this was between 1980-1991, so no I am not an old whinger!) at school, I have developed a love for the written word, be it in book or magazine and I am left feeling hollow, as I can see a time in our future, where the printed word, will not be nearly as precise nor descriptive, nor will vocabulary contain but a single reference to any word I was taught.

The above example may be of a minority who do not understand english very well, but if english is their second language, surely the teachers would attempt to make their writing correct in every conceivable way, rather than ignoring grossly incorrect grammar?

I'm just seeing a language being completely bastardized, regardless of the individuals intent to communicate, someone could politely explain that this level of understanding of the english language, is not going to get them a high-school graduation... or IS IT?
(keep in mind, this teacher lives in North Carolina, heheh)

Any thoughts? I know it's not confined to just English, I am interested in general opinion...
 
TenPenny
#2
Just read this site; people can't write coherently; they make arguments based on nothing; they make basic factual errors, then expect you to overlook them and believe everything else they write.

It's pitiful, and it's harder and harder to make sense out of what people are trying to say.
 
Curiosity
#3
This is an interesting argument...JoeyB

The beauty of English - because it began as a bastard language anyway is it will continue to evolve - especially with the migration of people all around the planet moving to countries who speak another language. We may end up with all countries speaking some kind of stew....except the French who intend to keep their language until the last escargot souffle (gag) is consumed!

It isn't a product of inner city schools either - I don't know if you are burdened with any American television or radio, but even the highly paid announcers and broadcasters are falling into the current shorthand we call modern English....

You have shown an example of southern vernacular which is common.... in fact so common many black children cannot speak formal English as it is not practiced in their homes. One school district in Oakland California made an issue of teaching "ebonics" as a second language like Spanish is taught in schools...until it was discovered they wanted the extra funding available for English as a Second Language...not the ability to tutor correct language skills.

I myself need an interpreter when there are Louisiana people talking among themselves....it is a mix of southern English, French, Acadian, and some made up stuff which is known to them only..haha. But as long as they keep making such great food dishes, and I know what I am eating.... don't care.

On the NBC Today show - a broadcaster name of Katie Couric for example (there are tons of others) who is paid multi-millions of dollars for her "work" consistently says: gonna...for going to....
raineen....for raining.... (or any other word ending in ing)....

It would take a foot long post...but you get what I am trying to say. The dam has broken....the language is up for grabs...there will always be those who nurture and protect the beautiful language.... called English.... but English itself was morphed into being and it seems to be on an ever-changing course.

Sad ain't it?
 
JoeyB
#4
Given that all current languages are 'evolving' (with the obvious exception of Latin, which is current for reference and religious purpose only, but a 'dead' language) I can concur with your theory on 'morphology' of a language. I'm not going to dissuade people from creating new words, or making a language more current, but the following descriptives: " slang, vernacular, colloquialism, strine", etc. call it what you will, isn't 'English'. Now that statement is probably going to create a debate in itself, but really it's not what I am referring to, nor is it really up for debate, as it is not an encompassing feature of the language proper, but rather a loosely covered dialect. My point about the correct teaching of the language still stands. I'm not about to dissuade the discussion or merit of teaching the ancillaries of a language either, I believe they should also be taught, but in context, and with the student also having an acceptable knowledge of the language proper in the first instance.

Example: I learned Languages other than English at school. I learned some colloqual terms, but they were made clear to me, that they had no part in the language proper, however they were accepted as part of the 'common' spoken language

aside: (I am referring to my French education, which I learned to associate with being snobbish... I don't understand why to this day, however my Italian gave me a love for the beautiful renaissance period, while my education in Japanese brought a completely different understanding on how a language can translate itself into perception of the senses, and it's a language I can love simply for it's attachment to earthbound nature. I refuse to discuss my love/hate relationship with latin)

I didn't really want to get too in-depth with the detail, but I guess I need to define more clearly what I meant by 'bastardization'
 
#juan
#5
I like for people to have enough respect for the language to compose grammatically correct, logical, correctly spelled, sentences. I am far from perfect myself but I try. English was probably my worst subject in high school and thank God we only had to do one English course at university. (Engineering) All I ask is that people make the effort.
 
snfu73
#6
Language evolves. Nobody really talks like Shakespeare anymore...unless...um...they are reading Shakespeare I suppose. The english language has evolved, changed, altered through each generation and it will continue to do so.
 
Daz_Hockey
#7
"bastardization of the English language"

That's American not English



......Do you see the irony in that statement?

"do you bite your thumb at me sir?"

"no sir, but I do bite my thumb"

there you go, some Shakespeare.
 
darkbeaver
#8
Me thinks yonder aforementioned notes doth maintain some standard of communication, I understood and that troubles me more than the grammer or the spelling.
 
selfactivated
#9
Im sorry but I dont see the big deal about the spelling. If you can understand my words and my meaning why take pot shots at my spelling? If I say **** off or frick off you get the point dont you??????
 
Daz_Hockey
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Me thinks yonder aforementioned notes doth maintain some standard of communication, I understood and that troubles me more than the grammer or the spelling.

Should it not be "Methinks", it doth not matter as soth tells thee that English changes all the time, but to name a title "bastardization of English" is highly ironic, as the original shakespeare text even spelt bastardisation correctly and not mangled by some foreign country immitating that of the Language of the people of England, hence English.
 
snfu73
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

Should it not be "Methinks", it doth not matter as soth tells thee that English changes all the time, but to name a title "bastardization of English" is highly ironic, as the original shakespeare text even spelt bastardisation correctly and not mangled by some foreign country immitating that of the Language of the people of England, hence English.

But at the same time...english, as in english english, even at that time was a derivitave of earlier forms of english and earlier forms of language...it all evolved over time and now we speaketh the languageth that we doeth.
 
Daz_Hockey
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by snfu73View Post

But at the same time...english, as in english english, even at that time was a derivitave of earlier forms of english and earlier forms of language...it all evolved over time and now we speaketh the languageth that we doeth.

You speak soth, but one wonders at what point American becomes it's own language now that it is indeed no longer part of the country that infact is England and it's people...the English. I wonder how long it took English to break from Freisian or Gaelic.

The differences are marked, more so than any other English speaking nation on this Earth. Tthere should be a point where an official says "you've been away so long, you broke from source, you deviate to the point you must call it your own language and not another countries"
 
snfu73
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

You speak soth, but one wonders at what point American becomes it's own language now that it is indeed no longer part of the country that infact is England and it's people...the English. I wonder how long it took English to break from Freisian or Gaelic.

I dunno...good question. However, for the most part, if an american goes to england, when they speak to eachother, they can understand eachother...unless I suppose the american is from lousiana, and the brit speaks cockney...then things might get a little hard to understand...then I would say they are related. Well...wait a sec...most people refer to american english or the queens english, so I guess distinctions are made.
 
darkbeaver
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

Im sorry but I dont see the big deal about the spelling. If you can understand my words and my meaning why take pot shots at my spelling? If I say **** off or frick off you get the point dont you??????

How would I know you had a speelink probleem.?
 
selfactivated
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

How would I know you had a speelink probleem.?


LOL just ask Beav or Jaun or any of the rest of them LOL
 
L Gilbert
#16
"Bastardisation of Language." Hmmmm.
"Are literacy standards declining"? Yes
"should there be a more diciplined approach to the teaching of " language? Dunno, what does "dicipline" mean? Is that like "discipline" If so, the answer is obviously ......... "obviously"?
 
darkbeaver
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

Should it not be "Methinks", it doth not matter as soth tells thee that English changes all the time, but to name a title "bastardization of English" is highly ironic, as the original shakespeare text even spelt bastardisation correctly and not mangled by some foreign country immitating that of the Language of the people of England, hence English.

Hey Daz how did my limey DNA get to the new world in the first place and create the problem. My grandfather spoke English.
 
Daz_Hockey
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Hey Daz how did my limey DNA get to the new world in the first place and create the problem. My grandfather spoke English.

For the same reason many people have similar, but slightly different spellings of surnames......

a lot of people couldnt spell then. And Limey is a good thing....unless you wanted all sorts of horrible casulties. And I can understand Freisian...doesnt make it the same language now does it?
 
Sparrow
#19
Everybody make spelling and typing errors but I don't think that is the problem. Today students even in Canada are having trouble writing English because they are using abreviated texts so much that when they have to write proper English they do not know how, they are even speaking in abreviations. However this is not only English because the French students here are doing the same thing. I think it is just young people making a world for themselves but I sure hope it changes when they grow up. I believe that in school they should be required to use proper grammer and English, outside of school who really cares.

It is true that languages have evolved over the years but this is a little too much.
 
Sparrow
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

LOL just ask Beav or Jaun or any of the rest of them LOL

Don't worry about you mistakes, we all make spelling mistakes and typo errors. So what!

The fun here is being able to discuss and even sometimes argue about different points of view.

I couldn't care less how someone writes their post as long as I can understand.
 
darkbeaver
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

For the same reason many people have similar, but slightly different spellings of surnames......

a lot of people couldnt spell then. And Limey is a good thing....unless you wanted all sorts of horrible casulties. And I can understand Freisian...doesnt make it the same language now does it?

Of course Limey is a good thing scurvey was a bad thing, I still have all kinds of relatives in UK. if you come to New Scotland the dialects will blow you away I can't understand a Lunenburger unless he speaks slowly and I need a translator to travel in Cape Breaton.
 
selfactivated
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by SparrowView Post

Don't worry about you mistakes, we all make spelling mistakes and typo errors. So what!

The fun here is being able to discuss and even sometimes argue about different points of view.

I couldn't care less how someone writes their post as long as I can understand.


Awwwwwww Thank You SEE Beav
 
darkbeaver
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

Awwwwwww Thank You SEE Beav

SeeSelfseebeavseeSelfsee,seefineSelfseeyoulaytoral igaytorhehehe
 
Daz_Hockey
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Of course Limey is a good thing scurvey was a bad thing, I still have all kinds of relatives in UK. if you come to New Scotland the dialects will blow you away I can't understand a Lunenburger unless he speaks slowly and I need a translator to travel in Cape Breaton.

Trust me, it's similar here. Where I am (in Southampton...gateway to the Empire, home of the Mayflower etc etc) we dont speak cockney, were kind of in between that and the accent you might associate with Pip's poor family in great expectations...in fact my grandad sounds just like the guy that initially took him in....you try understanding a Brummie or Scouser.

A lot of people dont realise that only a few speak in the type of English accent so commonly used as bad guy's in Hollywood films.
 
selfactivated
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

SeeSelfseebeavseeSelfsee,seefineSelfseeyoulaytoral igaytorhehehe


Pfffffft youcandi****outbutyoucanttakeitehwellyourstillcute andistillloveyaeventhoughyoudontlikemyspellin
 
selfactivated
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

Trust me, it's similar here. Where I am (in Southampton...gateway to the Empire, home of the Mayflower etc etc) we dont speak cockney, were kind of in between that and the accent you might associate with Pip's poor family in great expectations...in fact my grandad sounds just like the guy that initially took him in....you try understanding a Brummie or Scouser.

A lot of people dont realise that only a few speak in the type of English accent so commonly used as bad guy's in Hollywood films.

You should hear it here! Every state has its own dialect and every major city their own. Its no wonder I sound like a mixed up Southern/New Englander
 
darkbeaver
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

Trust me, it's similar here. Where I am (in Southampton...gateway to the Empire, home of the Mayflower etc etc) we dont speak cockney, were kind of in between that and the accent you might associate with Pip's poor family in great expectations...in fact my grandad sounds just like the guy that initially took him in....you try understanding a Brummie or Scouser.

A lot of people dont realise that only a few speak in the type of English accent so commonly used as bad guy's in Hollywood films.

We might be related hahah my grandsire left from a wharf in Liverpool sometime in 1912 he was a seaman with DarkBeaver seamen, he carried out gods devine mission and got me saviour of the planet to the New World West India.
 
El Barto
#28
Arrêter de vous plaindre et parler le français de bort
 
Daz_Hockey
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivatedView Post

You should hear it here! Every state has its own dialect and every major city their own. Its no wonder I sound like a mixed up Southern/New Englander

Yeah, I had a problem on the phone the other day with a woman from VA, Although I still prefer an incredibly deep south accent to that of the screwl of a New York one.
 
snfu73
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

Yeah, I had a problem on the phone the other day with a woman from VA, Although I still prefer an incredibly deep south accent to that of the screwl of a New York one.

screwl? That's a new word for me...never heard of that one.
 

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