Self Discipline vs. IQ

Well as I sit here pushing cookies into my face... I know I am going to fail this "new" testing measurement of ability to succeed!Apparently it isn't your intelligence quotient at all...but your ability to discipline (or in my world deny) your self-gratification urges.

Haha and then they finish off by saying the study demonstrates no correlation between the two..... Have another cookie....anyone??? Twinkie? Tim-bit??? (external - login to view)


High IQ: Not as good for you as you thought
IQ has been the subject of hundreds, if not thousands of research studies. Scholars have studied the link between IQ and race, gender, socioeconomic status, even music. Discussions about the relationship between IQ and race and the heritability of IQ (perhaps most notably Steven Jay Gould’s Mismeasure of Man) often rise to a fever pitch. Yet for all the interest in the study of IQ, there has been comparatively little research on other influences on performance in school.
Angela Duckworth and Martin Seligman estimate that for every ten articles on intelligence and academic achievement, there has been fewer than one about self-discipline. Even so, the small body of research on self-discipline suggests that it has a significant impact on achievement. Walter Mischel and colleagues found in the 1980s that 4-year-olds’ ability to delay gratification (for example, to wait a few minutes for two cookies instead of taking one cookie right away) was predictive of academic achievement a decade later. Others have found links between personality and college grades, and self-discipline and Phi Beta Kappa awards. Still, most research on self-discipline has achieved inconsistent results, possibly due to the difficulty of measuring self-discipline. Could a more robust measure of self-discipline demonstrate that it’s more relevant to academic performance than IQ?
To address this question, Duckworth...

Quote has been trimmed
I haven't given this subject a lot of thought but when I think back to my college days,(daze)it seems that if the better students had one thing to set them apart from the rest of us, it was self discipline. They were not the ones who let themselves be talked into going out on a fling the night before an exam. That sort of behavior was left up to the likes of me. I'm pretty sure I had more fun though
Give me both cookies now or I will kill you. Same end result but I get mine faster.
Everyone knows that old saying....

"All work and no play......." and the word is yes: DULL!

I would rather have a smile, a reasonable mid-size IQ number, and cookies!

I'm not sharing!
Dexter Sinister
Quote: Originally Posted by NickFun

Give me both cookies now or I will kill you.

Yep, I'm with you on that one. I'm deeply suspicious of IQ scores as a useful measure of anything. At various times in my life I've scored everywhere between 98 and 162 on IQ tests, and it's long seemed to me that all they measure is how good you are at a particular IQ test on a particular day. Gould's The Mismeasure of Man seems to me to make essentially the same point: trying to reduce a complex phenomenon like human intelligence to a single number is both pointless and stupid, especially since every IQ test ever invented is heavily weighted towards math and logic skills.

I generally do very well at those, since I happen to have a flair for math and logic. My dear wife doesn't, and so she generally scores much lower than I do on IQ tests. But she can walk confidently into a room full of strangers and within a few hours will have the life stories of everyone in the room, and what's more, if she doesn't see any of those people for a year then walks into a room full of the same people, she'll remember it all and be able to ask intelligently about somebody's Aunt Gertie and Uncle Bill and Cousin Clem. I've seen her do it repeatedly at company Christmas parties; her emotional intelligence quotient must at least twice what mine is. It's a manifestation of a particular kind of brilliance I can't begin to imitate or understand, I can only be grateful for it, because that skill of hers has smoothed they way for me many times. I'm completely hopeless at it (I'm an engineer, and thus hopeless at a lot of basic non-nerd human skills), and no IQ test I've ever seen can measure stuff like that.

IQ tests are about what you can do by yourself, but most of us don't spend all our lives by ourselves.
Well I spent seven years in grade four and through self discipline I never once molested my History teacher. A long legged blue eyed gorgeous blonde. Was I too stupid to make a pass or too disciplined to pass into the next grade and let her out of my sight?
the caracal kid
when looking at what the "IQ test" is now used for, one must remember what the original intent of the test was (which was quite different). The big mistake with test interpretation is over-reaching the limits of the test itself making predictions.
Zoofer ... why am I not surprised that you got an early start on your skills? If there were an IQ for flirting, you'd be Einstein level!

Dexter ... I totally agree. Two of my relations have IQs in the stratosphere, but the social grace of a couple of turnips. I love them, admire their minds, but wouldn't trade their brains for my interest in people for anything.

There is just no way IQ tests can be accurate. I'm utterly hopeless when it comes to math and logic -- because I just don't care. There's people and calculators to figure that stuff out. Never did understand why I need to. If I have to, I can learn those skills but how can a test reflect intelligence if I haven't put any effort at all into developing one aspect they cover?

If I have a reason to think in a logical, linear fashion, I am capable of doing so. You don't put together hundreds of lines of computer code without it. But unless I am motivated by passion or interest, my mind is just plain lazy. I guess that's what the article meant. I could discipline myself to greater intelligence, but I'd rather hang out here at the forum and visit than learn algebra. *shrug*

In high school, I pulled down high marks in classes I enjoyed, but when it came to the boring ones, I often didn't even have a notebook. I'd rely on final exams to scrape me through ... and had the social skill to talk the smartest kid in the class out of her notebook to study for the final. Saved me a lot of hours of work, which I then invested into drinking beer and socializing. Ha! Who was the smarter one there? I probably have better high school memories than the brainiacs!
I had one of the highest IQ scores at my school[ but I discounted that by noticing the rest of my class was composed of morons!] And,as I did nothing of real value in my working life with my so called higher intelligence.. discipline is the more important. The last test I took put me into the 139 IQ bracket & whether it makes me more stupid or smarter than others doesn't matter now
Glad someone resurrected this old thing mouldering away...I was hoping to get some neat replys....and I did...

My questions are:

Is you happy?

Is you satisfied?

Enuf - to heck with numbers - and I like what Dexter Sinister said:

IQ tests are about what you can do by yourself, but most of us don't spend all our lives by ourselves.

Eggs act lee
Happy? Yes,reasonably so and comfortable in my own skin,too
A "high" IQ is like a wrench: it's a tool, and the one who has it is lucky. Whether it gets used or not is another thing.

If you have it and choose not to use it, that's your decision.
Does your IQ go up when you fly?
Are people on the tenth floor smarter than those on the second?
Your IQ is not higher when you fly, nor is it higher
on he tenth floor than the bottom floor.

But the higher you go, the younger you are.

And the faster you go, the younger you are.

This is true in more ways than one.

It is true because the younger are often higher
than the older. Not only with drugs, but physical
journeys lead them to hike a mountain, or para-glide.

And the young usually go faster than the older.
And this is also true from Einstein's theory, because
the faster you go the younger you remain in contrast
to those you left behind.
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny

A "high" IQ is like a wrench: it's a tool, and the one who has it is lucky. Whether it gets used or not is another thing.

If you have it and choose not to use it, that's your decision.

It is pretty sad that many people waste their intelligence on such ridiculously minor stuff and television.

I don't know if it’s true or not, but I am a firm believer that television is the biggest waster of time and intelligence (in most cases). Strong intelligence and conscious thought are the only two things that truly separate us from all other life forms on this planet, and yet we waste both.

P.S. I usually score between a 140 and 160 on tests, so I don't go for them as a reliable indicator of intelligence. Anyone can choose to be smart if they have the will and determination too achieve it. So I am a self discipline person.
Dexter Sinister
Am I happy? Yes.

Am I satisfied? Yes.

I'm retired now, but in my working life I got to a first level manager position. That's about as high as you can go in any organization on technical merit alone, after that it's about politics and shmooozing and kissing asses, and I really suck at that. It's not so much that I can't do it, I just won't, because it's always seemed fundamentally dishonest somehow.

But I'm happy and satisfied because I was good at what I did, I trained up some really good people who went on to do well elsewhere, and (no false modesty here) I was a damn fine manager who treated the staff with respect and courtesy and always supported them against criticism from anyone. Even when I thought they were wrong. My view as a manager was that I was the only person whose criticisms mattered, so I always defended my staff, and criticized them only in the privacy of my office, with the door shut, and was always careful to do more than just criticize. I also told them how to do better, how to avoid criticism in future, and I made sure to tell them what they did right as well. Negative feedback's useless without positive feedback.

To sum it up I'd say I'm happy and satisfied because I know I've made a positive difference in the lives of people I care about. Not just the people who were my staff either, my wife and children I'm sure would say the same thing about me: I've made a positive difference, and I've stayed true to the principles my parents gave me. They were southern Ontario Protestants and very uptight about a lot of trivial things, but their essence came through clearly. I'm a believer in the faded Victorian virtues: honour, duty, dignity, loyalty, honesty, integrity, and plain old decency.

I suppose what it adds up to is that I like myself and I'm content with what I've done so far with my life. I'm one of the good guys I think, by choice and action, and I think well of myself.

Not bad for an atheist...

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