Just give me that old-time atheism


Hard-Luck Henry
#1
By Salman Rushdie

Quote:

"Not believing in God is no excuse for being virulently anti-religious or naïvely pro-science," says Dylan Evans, a professor of robotics at the University of West England in Bristol.
Evans has written an article for the Guardian of London deriding the old-fashioned, "19th-century" atheism of such prominent thinkers as Richard Dawkins and Jonathan Miller, instead proposing a new, modern atheism which "values religion, treats science as simply a means to an end and finds the meaning of life in art."
Indeed, he says, religion itself is to be understood as "a kind of art, which only a child could mistake for reality and which only a child would reject for being false."
Evans' position fits well with that of the American philosopher of science Michael Ruse, whose new book, The Evolution-Creation Struggle, lays much of the blame for the growth of creationism in America — and for the increasingly strident attempts by the religious right to have evolutionary theory kicked off the curriculum and replaced by the new dogma of "intelligent design" — at the door of the scientists who have tried to compete with, and even supplant, religion.
A staunch evolutionist himself, he is nevertheless highly critical of such modern giants as Dawkins and Edward O. Wilson.

Quote has been trimmed
 
Reverend Blair
#2
I think the reason that there have been so many religious-based challenges to science is that not just atheists, but most of the scientific community regardless of belief, are reluctant to challenge the falsehoods that religions put forth as fact.

We've tried staying quiet and letting them have their beliefs, but they've used that silence to attack science.
 
Twila
#3
People will always seek something to believe in. Some want hard facts they can touch, Some prefer fanciful and magical things........Some are happy with a teapot

Teapot Cult bombed (external - login to view)
 
Reverend Blair
#4
I've been worshipping the beer in my fridge since Saturday. On Thursday morning I intend to begin worshipping empties instead.
 
Hard-Luck Henry
#5
Your body is a temple, eh Rev? Are you familiar with 'The Beer Prayer'?

"Our lager
Which art in barrels
Hallowed be thy drink
Thy will be drunk, (I will be drunk)
At home as it is in the tavern
Give us this day our foamy head
And forgive us our spillage
As we forgive those who spill against us
And lead us not into incarceration
But deliver us from hangovers
For thine is the beer, the bitter, and the lager
Barmen."
 
Reverend Blair
#6
I actually have a framed copy of that hanging on my wall, Henry.
 
media
#7
I am an American. We were founded on Christianity. If you read the Bible instead of making blind statements about it then you will know that we are here to love our neighbors as ourselves. That is why we have not only given billions to other countries but also died for their freedoms. We love you no matter what you think or say about us. God Bless America so that we can continue to bless others.
 
media
#8
P.S.
It is not about religion, it is about a relationship with God.
 
peapod
#9
Bull****! we already seen how you love your neighbours. You have become religious zealots, no better than your enemies.
 
media
#10
I am sorry that you feel that way. Just like any society, there are evil people in our society. But for the most part I think we are good.
Everyone has been given free will. Everyone has also been given a special talent. You can choose to use that special talent for good or for evil. Let me give you an example. If you are talented at playing the drums and love heavy metal music, you have the free will to use that talent to play good music with inspiring lyrics or you can choose to play music that promotes sex, drugs and violence. Your choice.
Following God is not about rituals, it is about using your God given talents in a way that is pleasing to Him, having a relationship with Him, asking for His will to be done with your talents and your life. If you ask him with 100% sincerity, you will know.
Many in our country have turned away from God. The rest of us will continue to love you.
 
Reverend Blair
#11
Uh, Media? Your founding fathers made several direct statements pointing to your country being founded on the separation of church and state. If they could hear that baboon you put in the Oval Office spouting off about god constantly, they'd be spinning in their graves.
 
media
#12
You are mis-informed just as many Americans are. Nowhere in our Constitution are the words Separation of Church and State. However, it does state that the Government shall not make laws governing the freedoms of churches. If you do not believe me, then go to (www.wallbuilders.com (external - login to view)). All the proof you need is there.
Actually, our founding fathers are surley spinning in their graves because so many have bought into the separation propaganda. Read our Constitution. I promise you it is not there.
P.S. Jesus loves you!
 
Reverend Blair
#13
The words do not appear in your constitution, but the writing and speeches of your founding fathers live on. They had no use for the bumbling idiots who insist on mixing politics and religion.

Jesus is a myth.
 
Cosmo
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by media

P.S.
It is not about religion, it is about a relationship with God.

Just out of curiosity, Media ... the difference being what? Your posts indicate the two are inextricably entwined for you.

Also, which god? There are many. People worship in a myriad of ways. Personally I think the bible is the work of the devil. That book has started more fights, wars, and instigated more cruel and evil acts than anything else in the history of man. It is ambiguous, contradictory, filled with violence, rage and mayhem. Would a loving god offer up a work that would cause such heinous behaviour? I don't think so. When I hear people quoting the bible I usually wonder if they are evil or foolish.

I am agnostic. I think god is unknowable, but believe a greater power does exist. I just don't think it's as limited as traditional christian belief systems would have us buy into.
 
media
#15
To Cosmo-
1. They are intertwined.
2. I do not know how to answer your other question as long as your heart is closed. I already answered that question before you asked it. If you do not want the truth, then you will never find it.
To Reverand-
1. dito
2.You really need to research what our founding fathers said instead of spreading untrue propaganda. That kind of propaganda and falsehood is what is wrong with our society today.

I am so sorry you do not know Jesus. You are really missing out. If you read the Bible, God took total losers and made them into awesome heros. Again, religion and relationship are not the same thing. Jesus was not happy with people that persecuted others for not following the strict religious "rules" and neglected a relationship.
Again, you can continue to down Christians but we will still love you.
 
peapod
#16
Save your sheep bleeping for those who cannot think for themselves...nothing but myths...unless of course you can "prove" any of it...oh no wait....the guy in the sky says so..uh huh
 
manda
#17
They are not enterwined...Like Hell.

I have faith and Believe that God is my saviour.

I DO NOT, believe in organized religion. I do not need somebody else to read from a book that was written by a man "according to diction from God", but apparently King James was close enough to God to make some changes to better suit him.

I try to live a good live and pray to the almighty, not some building erected for a community to go and Worship instead of God Themself, and where the can compare Gossip. Faithful People, my hiney. Don't feed me that Crap Media, it doesn't settle well and doesn't look so nice when regurgitated in your face
 
Said1
#18
Church and state do not govern or influence each other. Period.
 
Cosmo
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by media

To Cosmo-
1. They are intertwined.
2. I do not know how to answer your other question as long as your heart is closed. I already answered that question before you asked it. If you do not want the truth, then you will never find it.

Hmmm ... didn't realize my heart was closed. Last time I saw the doc he said my heart was working perfectly.

I respect your right to your version of the truth, but if you insist on spraying it around like a foul odour, you must be prepared for some of us to object.

Quote:

I am so sorry you do not know Jesus. You are really missing out.

What makes you so sure I don't??? I met him when I was in Mexico. He and his brother Juan were wonderful guides when we went out on a day trip!

Quote:

If you read the Bible, ... (yada yada yada)

Surprise, Media. I have read the bible. Was raised catholic. Baptized, Sunday school, first communion, confirmed in the church. Spent a lot of hours studying the bible. It's what I base my opinions on. Not all of us who disagree with you are just talking out our ***! It's a good thing to have the experience ... helps me get lots of Jeopardy questions right!

I don't "down" christians ... I simply don't agree with your rhetoric. Your reasoning is flawed, your beliefs are spurious. That is my opinion. But I respect your right to them.
 
Cosmo
#20
All reminds me of a bumper sticker ... "Jesus loves you ... but everyone else thinks you're an *******"
 
Said1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Cosmo

All reminds me of a bumper sticker ... "Jesus loves you ... but everyone else thinks you're an *******"

Hahaha. I started singing "Jesus is Just Alright" after I read this thread.
 
Cosmo
#22
Said1 ... so nice to see you back around here. You've been MIA for a while, no?
 
Said1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Cosmo

Said1 ... so nice to see you back around here. You've been MIA for a while, no?

Thanks! I was still lurking, but mainly too tired from a combination of heat, kids and puppy to post much. I also changed internet providers, took a day or two to get the new modem.
 
bulldog
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by media

I am an American. We were founded on Christianity. If you read the Bible instead of making blind statements about it then you will know that we are here to love our neighbors as ourselves. That is why we have not only given billions to other countries but also died for their freedoms. We love you no matter what you think or say about us. God Bless America so that we can continue to bless others.

I am sorry that so many here have been so unpleasant to you.
I am the usual target. I just wanted to say welcome - I will listen to you.

Bull Dog
 
Dexter Sinister
#25
It's plain in the first amendment to the U.S. constitution.

And read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...tes_of_America (external - login to view)

Pay particular attention to this in that document:

"The clause of the First Amendment that adopted the founders' principles of separation of church and state and freedom of religion is known as the Establishment Clause. It states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

And this:
"The modern view adopted by the Supreme Court in the latter half of the nineteenth century is that no government -- federal, state or local -- can perform any action or make any policy which blatantly favors one faith or church over the others, or which favors belief in a God or Supreme being over non-belief."

There are some dissenters, but that's the essence of it. Anybody who thinks America was founded on Christianity is ignorant of both the nation's history and its constitution
 
Said1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

It's plain in the first amendment to the U.S. constitution.

And read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separat...tes_of_America (external - login to view)

Pay particular attention to this in that document:

"The clause of the First Amendment that adopted the founders' principles of separation of church and state and freedom of religion is known as the Establishment Clause. It states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

And this:
"The modern view adopted by the Supreme Court in the latter half of the nineteenth century is that no government -- federal, state or local -- can perform any action or make any policy which blatantly favors one faith or church over the others, or which favors belief in a God or Supreme being over non-belief."

There are some dissenters, but that's the essence of it. Anybody who thinks America was founded on Christianity is ignorant of both the nation's history and its constitution

I may be wrong, but weren't the founding "fathers" deists?
 
manda
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by bulldog


I am sorry that so many here have been so unpleasant to you.
I am the usual target. I just wanted to say welcome - I will listen to you.

Bull Dog

Now now, bulldog, we aren't attacking "media", so much as stating our opinions on his/her beliefs. I for one think that they are narrow-minded and wished to voice as much..perhaps I came across too harshly, but I am strongly rooted in what I have faith in. if you state something that you believe and criticize others, expect to get it throw back at you, refuted. Much like the phrase, "If you can't take the heat, get the pheck outta my kitchen!"

On a side note, most countries were founded byour Royalty and our Lord, that doesn't mean that we can't question unswerving loyalty to either, or suggest that others corrupt the meaning behind what they stand for..look at history, it's always happened, corruption and questioning both!

likewise, media, if you beleive all the propaganda that is being spoonfed to you by bush about his generosity, without noticing his backstabbing for personal gain, you have blinders on, and need to inform yourself about what is happening in all sides of the table, not just those willing to hold the spoon for you..knowledge is power. I'm all for love thy neighbor, but I can't tolerate those who are so high on themselves that they won't accept humility, another neccessary quality according to the bible, if you want to use that book for your arguments, you had best remember all that it says
 
peapod
#28
Save your so called "pity" bulldog for the innocent civilians in Iraq. Oh I forgot they don't count coz the guy in the sky is not jesus for them he goes by mohamad.
 
Cosmo
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Said1

Thanks! I was still lurking, but mainly too tired from a combination of heat, kids and puppy to post much. I also changed internet providers, took a day or two to get the new modem.

PUPPY?? Do tell! Even better ... post a pic of the fur kid under the pic thread for us! (I'm a dog person, btw )
 
Said1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Cosmo

Quote: Originally Posted by Said1

Thanks! I was still lurking, but mainly too tired from a combination of heat, kids and puppy to post much. I also changed internet providers, took a day or two to get the new modem.

PUPPY?? Do tell! Even better ... post a pic of the fur kid under the pic thread for us! (I'm a dog person, btw )

I think I did, but I'll do it again for those who missed him.
 
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