Just give me that old-time atheism


Cosmo
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by bulldog

I am sorry that so many here have been so unpleasant to you.
I am the usual target. I just wanted to say welcome - I will listen to you.

Bull Dog

Unpleasant? How so, Bulldog? Because I don't believe the superstitious drivel spouted by traditional christians? That is, of course, my opinion. I didn't arrive at my current belief system by pulling it out of thin air, but by investing a great deal of time and effort into studying various religions and trying to understand what is behind them.

Media is behaving in a superior, condescending manner, as if (s)he is above the rest of us by holding the expressed beliefs. To me that is far more unpleasant than a straight on disagreement.

Also, I don't recall ever "targetting" you. I may not agree with you a lot of the time, but I don't think I've persecuted you. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
peapod
#32
Bulldog just does not like being called on "all" her/his/ whatever personalities. lol

Yes, we have seen the "superior" ones handy work...In fact I was on kuper island yesterday. Its a beauitful place, not that long ago the "superior" one committed hanis crimes againist native childern, kuper island, one of the worst. Yes I am sure they can relate to Jesus loves you.
 
media
#33
Thanks Bull Dog--- Very Nice

I would like to point out to Dexter that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" does not say separation. (As I said earlier go to www.wallbuilders.com (external - login to view)) Churches in the US are tax exempt for the sole purpose of keeping the government from telling them what to do. Not to take away their free right of speech. Unfortunatley, that has been attacked also. The definition of religion isA collection of beliefs) It is not therefore possible to have any government anywhere that does not practice religion. (Atheism is also a religion because it is a collection of beliefs) They all have a collection of beliefs. The wallbuilders website is so awesome because they have documented proof about America's historical culture. But yes, even some American's have tried to ruin that.
I would also like to say that I am a big fan of the former Canadian Gordon Sinclair. Great man.
Again Bulldog, thank you. If you read my original message, I was simply stating that America does love it's neighbors, and I personally beleive our Christian heritage is the reason for this. Boy did that open a pandora's box!
God Bless America. No matter what they say about us, we still love them.
 
media
#34
You have my sincere apology if I have come across as condesending. I feel that most people are turned off by Christianity because they feel they are being judged. I know I used to feel that way. That is why I made such a big deal about the dif between relationship and religion. I am only stubborn about my stance because of how God changed my life when I allowed him to. That does not mean that I am trying to be judgmental. Please forgive me if I came across that way.
 
peapod
#35
Thats good coz..your beliefs should be like your underwear...there...but not seen....after all it is a personal thing, not need to serve it up like a "big mac" especially when you say jesus loves you...that is insulting to me. So if you keep your "advertising" to yourself, I will keep my snide remarks to myself...even tho I might draw blood when I bite on my lips..the hyporcites I mean.
 
Cosmo
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by media

You have my sincere apology if I have come across as condesending. I feel that most people are turned off by Christianity because they feel they are being judged. I know I used to feel that way. That is why I made such a big deal about the dif between relationship and religion. I am only stubborn about my stance because of how God changed my life when I allowed him to. That does not mean that I am trying to be judgmental. Please forgive me if I came across that way.

No big deal, Media. I just calls em as I sees em. Often enthusiastic christians give off this aura of moral superiority that is, quite frankly, a tad irksome to me.

In all sincerity, I'm glad you have a faith that works for you. I am a huge believer in faith ... can't imagine getting though life without it. I just believe it's a personal issue, an internal thing, if you like. I generally only discuss the details of my beliefs with people I know well. It's kinda like my underwear ... people assume you're wearing them but expect you to keep them private.
 
Cosmo
#37
I posted that then read your post.

Cue scarey music ... is this divine intervention at work??
 
Ocean Breeze
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by peapod

Thats good coz..your beliefs should be like your underwear...there...but not seen....after all it is a personal thing, not need to serve it up like a "big mac" especially when you say jesus loves you...that is insulting to me. So if you keep your "advertising" to yourself, I will keep my snide remarks to myself...even tho I might draw blood when I bite on my lips..the hyporcites I mean.


absolutely spot on. Like your analogy about personal beliefs being PERSONAL and not something one wears on his sleeve......as if it makes him/her better than any other human being. People who have the "need" to advertize their beliefs are very insecure within themselves and many " need" the herd mentality that "religion" offers .


(for me...... no labels at all. - as the idea of being branded into some category is offensive/demeaning and takes away from the individuals uniqueness. ) (IMHO)
 
TenPenny
#39
If we are all "God's Children", then what makes Jesus so special?
 
Cosmo
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze

(for me...... no labels at all. - as the idea of being branded into some category is offensive/demeaning and takes away from the individuals uniqueness. ) (IMHO)

Ahhh ... the old "labels" issue. I love this one. I have spent hours debating this topic and have switched from "pro" to "con" and back again innumerable times. It's a real hot-button topic in the lesbian community.

My current opinion is that I like labels. An analogy ... go to your cupboard, peel the label off every tin can in there. Wait a week, then try to cook something. Without some outward indicator, confusion ensues. I think it's the same for people. Labels give us a starting point to further familiarity with those we are drawn to.

I love some of my personal labels. I am a woman, a graphic designer, a spiritual person, a risk taker, a lesbian. I like all those things and any one of them offers people an in-road to getting to know me better. I spent most of my life in emotional isolation and enjoy my newfound ability to share myself with others.

Just something to think about, Breeze.
 
bulldog
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by peapod

Thats good coz..your beliefs should be like your underwear...there...but not seen....after all it is a personal thing, not need to serve it up like a "big mac" especially when you say jesus loves you...that is insulting to me. So if you keep your "advertising" to yourself, I will keep my snide remarks to myself...even tho I might draw blood when I bite on my lips..the hyporcites I mean.

OK, Peapod, if your beliefs should be unseen, please tell Rev that "Jesus is a myth" is better left unsaid. Turnabouts fair play.

Bull Dog
 
Vanni Fucci
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by media

I am an American. We were founded on Christianity. If you read the Bible instead of making blind statements about it then you will know that we are here to love our neighbors as ourselves. That is why we have not only given billions to other countries but also died for their freedoms. We love you no matter what you think or say about us. God Bless America so that we can continue to bless others.

I find the whole peace and love message of Jesus to be somewhat spurious...

Quote:

Matthew 10:34
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Quote:

Lk.12:51
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

Quote:

Lk.22:36
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

His words ring rather hollow, don't you think?
 
Dexter Sinister
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Said1

I may be wrong, but weren't the founding "fathers" deists?

They were probably fairly serious Christians; most people were at the time. But that's irrelevant. What's relevant is what the founding documents actually say and how the Supreme Court has interpreted them.
 
Dexter Sinister
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by media

The definition of religion isA collection of beliefs) It is not therefore possible to have any government anywhere that does not practice religion. (Atheism is also a religion because it is a collection of beliefs)

If you're going to redefine words to mean whatever you want them to mean to suit your arguments, you can hardly lose, can you? That's not what religion is, that's only a tiny part of it, and neither is atheism a religion. Your ignorance is massive, your logic is sloppy, and I don't think you're worth talking to on this subject.
 
Said1
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Quote: Originally Posted by Said1

I may be wrong, but weren't the founding "fathers" deists?

They were probably fairly serious Christians; most people were at the time. But that's irrelevant. What's relevant is what the founding documents actually say and how the Supreme Court has interpreted them.

No it's not irrelevant, it's a legitimate question.

This is an interesting link pertaing to the founding fathers and deism.

www.deism.org/foundingfathers.htm (external - login to view)
 
media
#46
Sorry you feel that way Dex.
I will always stand firm on my beliefs because of personal experience and faith. It is not my place to judge you, argue with you, or dislike you for the way you feel.
I am sure that both views on this subject (although I am a little confused on what the subject even is now) can come up with numerous arguments. I just know in my heart what is true. And that is not meant to be condescending or superior. It is what it is. Anyone who is open-minded on this subject again can go to and meanwhile I will just keep loving the world.


Eternity is too long to be wrong
 
TenPenny
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by media

I just know in my heart what is true.

Eternity is too long to be wrong

I think what you mean is, you know in your heart what you BELIEVE is true.
 
Dexter Sinister
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Said1

No it's not irrelevant, it's a legitimate question.

Sure it's a legitimate question, in other contexts. It's irrelevant to arguments about the doctrine of separation of church and state in the United States. That's as clear as it could possibly be, in the constitutional documents themselves, in other writings of various of the founders--on which I commend Thomas Jefferson to your attention--and in the judgements of the United States Supreme Court since.
 
Ocean Breeze
#49
Quote:

Eternity is too long to be wrong


only IF eternity is tied up with something in this life and assumes there is life after demise...... or a carryover of consciousness into another realm.

but in another way......this carries value as "dead" is a very long time........so why not make the best of what one has in the life of here and now.??? "we can't recapture yesterday, and have no clue as to "tomorrow".......so in the final analysis...... the current moment in time is all that truly matters. (IMHO)
 
Vanni Fucci
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by media

I just know in my heart what is true.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but your heart is a muscle that pumps blood to and from vital organs and the extremities of the body. It's function is not, nor has it ever been to provide cognisant thought or awareness.

The brain provides that function through a myriad network of neurons and neurotransmitters that emit bioelectric charges to a series of receptors.

So you see, there is no possible way that you could know anything in your heart, but that is the trap that most Christians fall into. They're too damn stupid to differentiate between what's real, and that which is imagined because they've been told that it's so.
 
Ocean Breeze
#51
Quote:

So you see, there is no possible way that you could know anything in your heart, but that is the trap that most Christians fall into. They're too damn stupid to differentiate between what's real, and that which is imagined because they've been told that it's so.


Bingo. Such phrases are metaphors ......and metaphors are the "substance" of believers. Brainwashing into such belief systems starts early ......IF one is born into a "religious " family......and become very hard to shake/dispell as adults without some serious rethink on the whole situation. For many "beliefs" such as the religious variety are a "comfort zone". Straying from this comfort zone is too' "threatening"..... ( yet is liberating beyond comprehension.......as it is only then that one starts to THINK as opposed to "believe" /follow. In fact each "religion " has its own type of conditioning/ er...."brainwashing" and uses fear (of hell or some such nonsense) to keep the followers in a guilt ridden mode......and controlled within a certain mindset.

Most then use words like " I BELIEVE" as opposed to I THINK.... which is a whole different frame of reference. (IMHO)
 
media
#52
Still loving the world...

But how strange it is that the words diversity and tolerance include every belief and lifestyle except for Christianity.
Thank you for opening my eyes. I had no idea that there was such annimosity (I am sure I spelled that wrong) towards God.

Even though you call me stupid, I still love you and your country.
 
Vanni Fucci
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by media

Even though you call me stupid, I still love you and your country.

That's ok...you don't have to...
 
Jay
#54
"They're too damn stupid to differentiate between what's real, and that which is imagined because they've been told that it's so."


But you're just soooo feck'n smart....
 
Vanni Fucci
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

"They're too damn stupid to differentiate between what's real, and that which is imagined because they've been told that it's so."


But you're just soooo feck'n smart....

You got that right Bubba...
 
peapod
#56
Bulldog, Oh ya reverend blair again! the story of jesus is most certainly a myth...unless you gots something that can prove otherwise.....perhaps you should try giving your message to naked brown people in a hot steamy jungle...oh ya...bets you could find lots wrong in a hot steamy jungle with naked brown people.
 
bulldog
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by peapod

Bulldog, Oh ya reverend blair again! the story of jesus is most certainly a myth...unless you gots something that can prove otherwise.....perhaps you should try giving your message to naked brown people in a hot steamy jungle...oh ya...bets you could find lots wrong in a hot steamy jungle with naked brown people.

I''m sorry, but I feel you owe media the same courtesy as Rev.
If you chastise her for stating her beliefs (which you disagree with), then you should restrain Rev from stating his. I thought the group would be more courteous to a new member. I am not interesting in brown naked people in the jungle. Rather, I am concerned with equal consideration for members of this group.

Bull Dog
 
bulldog
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by media

Still loving the world...

But how strange it is that the words diversity and tolerance include every belief and lifestyle except for Christianity.
Thank you for opening my eyes. I had no idea that there was such annimosity (I am sure I spelled that wrong) towards God.

Even though you call me stupid, I still love you and your country.

Hang in there, kid. Cosmo asked why I thought some of the group had been unpleasant to you. Do you feel they have been unpleasant to you?

I am not a popular member of this group either, although I am not usually discussing religion. I like to examine both sides of a story and try to be fair. A judge does that in order to make a legal decision. Right? FYI, I love Canada and the US too.

Bull Dog
 
peapod
#59
 
no1important
#60
Well the dusty old book is so full of contridictions it aint funny. It can't even get the order of "creation" right. Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 contridict each other.

There is absolutly no proof "god" or any of the other 100's of "gods" ever existed. They have all had a lot of opportunity to present themselves but they must be too busy to drop in.

The primary goal of the Christ-psychotics to reproduce their mental illness. They corrupt children during their imprinting period and beyond. If their brains are genetically propense to religious-psychosis, then they'll have more proselytes to pass on their neurological anomaly, screwing up the world with their intellectual drag, ignorance and neurological retardation.

Funny how before travel or travel by ship was popular diferent regions of the world had diferent beliefs. Funny no one came up with same god or gods or beliefs.

God is just a form of brain washing. Your pumped that into your head all your growing up life. When you die you go to heaven or hell (some religions do not believe in hell) or purgatory if you are catholic.

To me God is just a mythical cult leader.

When I was 14 for some crazy reason my mothers friend brainwashed her into joinging that catholic church (cult). She wanted all us to join up as well. She forced everyone but me, but she tried. She thought I was "lost" and would embarass her if I went to Catacism. (I told her I would embarass her and tell the truth) I went to that church once on a sunday and grilled the priest afterwards and I never went back and not even asked to go (or told to).

Now none of my siblings go to that church and two are "recovering Catholics". All 3 are now "athiests" as they say. (None of their children go to church as well nor is religion promoted in the house holds.)

They saw the light, or my light, as when its all explained, and explained over time the real truth comes out. Not to mention all the contridictions, I felt proud of myself. I guess thats one of the reasons I hardly ever see my mother and never get along with her.

I used to believe in Fairy Tales(Santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy)until 7 or 8, but I don't believe I ever believed in "god" though(I used to read any book or encylopedia I could get my hands on growing up) but after much thought and questions to adults, no one had any answers to my questions. I was usually told to stop asking. Religious people hate the tough questions from my expierence.
 
no new posts