View Poll Results: If you had 1% of all knowlegde do you think that it's possible that in the other 99% god exists?
Absolutley(christian) 5 50.00%
I guess(ignostic) 5 50.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

jimmoyer
#61
Slurpie, either you wrote to bait the others, or you're for real. Can't tell yet.

But if you're for real, one thing is for sure, there is a lack of respect going on from either side, for whatever righteous reasons of logic mustered.

Vanni, on the other hand, will give you some serious logical questions, that you should read and go over before you start this debate all anew.

I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but his facts are pretty strong.

And for that reason I believe most religions should open their eyes and acquaint themselves with the secular historical origins of their religion. I believe Vanni concludes that some of the lies and myths should cause you to abandon the religion and start something else that is more informed. My conclusion is that embracing some of the truth the critics say about religion can help mature religion into a deeper wisdom.

If, I may be so bold to characterize Vanni's points ?
 
Slurpie
#62
But i'm speaking of christianity in particular. If you have never read the whole bible how can you say that it's not true?
 
Slurpie
#63
Vanni said that how to differenciate gods. well first of all christianity is the only religion (and i hate calling it that) that says that god gave his one and only son to save us from our sins so that we can live eternaly in heaven.
 
Slurpie
#64
even if other religions say something like this where is their proof?
 
Slurpie
#65
A design(aka-earth) needs a desinger(aka-god)
 
Slurpie
#66
the bible is the only holy book that says it's actually gods word
 
jimmoyer
#67
Oy veh.
 
Slurpie
#68
the new testament was only written 50 years after jesus's death(the closest between a book and god) (budha died like 300 years before his book came- i've heard that he suposedly wrote it too)
 
Slurpie
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Oy veh.

???
 
jimmoyer
#70
????
 
Vanni Fucci
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by Slurpie

Vanni said that how to differenciate gods. well first of all christianity is the only religion (and i hate calling it that) that says that god gave his one and only son to save us from our sins so that we can live eternaly in heaven.

Hmmm...fun and games...

First off, my intent here is not to ridicule, but to educate.

That said, you need to put down your bible and do a bit of real world reading.

To address your comment above:

Osiris Egypt 1700 BC

Bel Babylon 1200 BC

Atys Phrygia 1170 BC

Thammuz Syria 1160 BC

Dionysus Greece 1100 BC

Krishna India 1000 BC

Hesus Europe 834 BC

Indra Tibet 725 BC

Bali Asia 725 BC

Iao Nepal 622 BC

Alcestis Pherae 600 BC

Quexalcote Mexico 587 BC

Wittobe Travancore 552 BC

Prometheus Greece 547 BC

Quirinus Rome 506 BC

Mithra Persia 400 BC
 
Slurpie
#72
where's there proof
 
Vanni Fucci
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by Slurpie

where's there proof

Read a book
 
Slurpie
#74
have you even read the bible?
 
Vanni Fucci
#75
I've read the Bible probably more times than you...

...I've given cursory reads to the Quran, the Vest, the Rig Veda, and The Art of War...

www.spaceandmotion.com/theolo...-religions.htm (external - login to view)

The above link is a one-stop shop for all your religious needs, as well as philosophy, which I've studied, and many of the sciences, also which I've studied...

Trust me when I say, that for me, Christianity is just more of the same as far as religion and philosophy goes, and really answers no questions of real import...
 
jimmoyer
#76
You do not mean to imply what is for you, the same should be for others?

I do not think your case for dismissal of a religion with suspicious origins is complete and well rounded.

I think your thought on the subject could deepen the wisdom of that religion rather than cancel it.
 
Vanni Fucci
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

You do not mean to imply what is for you, the same should be for others?

No Jim...I did not imply that, nor would I...

What I am implying is that it may be a good idea to stop implicitly trusting what your preacher is telling you, and look into it for yourself...a little education never hurt anyone, right?

Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

I do not think your case for dismissal of a religion with suspicious origins is complete and well rounded.

Give it time Jim, I'll get it right yet...I find research to be tiresome...

Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

I think your thought on the subject could deepen the wisdom of that religion rather than cancel it.

That would all depend on whether we can discern to what purpose we have all been deceived...I'm working on that issue too...
 
jimmoyer
#78
The deception bothers me the least and such a deception seems to capture your ire too much.

That's okay. Quite an understandable reaction.

Mine may be less easily understandable. I've been fully acquainted with the original deceptions for many many years.

And yet I go to this church and focus on the good parts, the good works and selectively ignore the rituals, the brittle rules of belief and find in the end, the original deception matters so very little to me anymore.

In fact I'm quite interested in all of the deceptions as a matter of historical curiosity and amazement. The book of Thomas is a real eye opener and was ommitted by the first church fathers from the Bible. They almost voted against keeping Ecclesiastes in the Bible.

So the Bible is a selective vote on all the writings of the times, mostly 100 to 200 years after the alleged event.

The day we celebrate Christmas is an arbitrary appreciation of all the pagans who celebrated the Return of Light on the shortest day, the Winter Solstice.

Despite the deception, the choice of that day is quite metaphorical, The Return of Light.

Delicious in its deception, soaring in its poetry.

A fable, yes?

But there were many novel ideas that took the world by force, such as that of a saviour above the pettiness of mankind, the idea of it being more important than the banality and disappointing nature of facts.

A lot of the protestant struggles later informed our secular thinking on freedom, the natural rights of mankind.

We should not throw out the complexity and hypocrisy of our history and think we can start anew as though it never happened.

And indeed is that your point?

It never happened.
 
jimmoyer
#79
Also, whatever (beliefs whether as Science and Logic as its NEW GOD) mankind comes up with will have some evolution to it, but will still contain the seeds of decay, atrophy and hypocrisy AND arrogance to replace that which it condemns.
 
Slurpie
#80
let me ask you what you think started the world
 
Vanni Fucci
#81
In researching the phenomenon of religion and faith, and find myself ever returning to the question of intent.

Right from the first chapters of Genesis we are assaulted with it, whereby the authors of the Pentateuch make it very clear in serving their God, one must submit their own will to his...this theme carries on throughout the Old and New Testaments...obeisance and submission of control...

This is all fine and good, for those that can stomach the servitude, but the question remains:

Who really are you relinquishing your moral authority and self governance to?

Some may say their particular flavour of god...but I beg to differ. No, in fact, they are submitting their free will to no higher power than the clergy who is pounding on the pulpit, and the collective consciousness of the congregation.

Obedience is the key to heaven...following ones own moral compass will consign one to hell...so says the bible...

So my question is, and continues to be, what is the importance of having the masses relinquish control of their morality, and who does it benefit most?

These questions and many more I ponder into the night...

An Insightful Perspective on the Problems With Beliefs (external - login to view)
 
Vanni Fucci
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by Slurpie

let me ask you what you think started the world

The inherently unstable nature of entropy...
 
I think not
#83
I love it!
 
Vanni Fucci
#84
home.flash.net/~csmith0/bigbang.htm (external - login to view)

Quote:

There are two dominant religious mythologies. According to Judeo-Christian belief, the universe had a definite beginning. This is the Genesis hypothesis, where the universe was hatched from a Cosmic Egg. However, according to the Hindu-Buddhist belief in Nirvana, the universe is timeless; it never had a beginning, nor will it have an end.
Quantum cosmology proposes a beautiful synthesis of these seemingly hostile viewpoints. In the beginning was Nothing. No space, no matter or energy. But according to the quantum principle, even Nothing was unstable. Nothing began to decay; i.e. it began to "boil," with billions of tiny bubbles forming and expanding rapidly. Each bubble became an expanding universe.
If this is true, then our universe is actually part of a much larger "multiverse" of parallel universes, which is truly timeless, like Nirvana.
As Nobel laureate Steve Weinberg has said, "An important implication is that there wasn't a beginning; that there were increasingly large Big Bangs, so that the [multiverse] goes on forever - one doesn't have to grapple with the question of it before the Bang. The [multiverse] has just been here all along. I find that a very satisfying picture."
Universes can literally spring into existence as a quantum fluctuation of Nothing. (This is because the positive energy found in matter is balanced against the negative energy of gravity, so the total energy of a bubble is zero. Thus, it...

Quote has been trimmed
 
Slurpie
#85
Quote:

Some may say their particular flavour of god...but I beg to differ. No, in fact, they are submitting their free will to no higher power than the clergy who is pounding on the pulpit, and the collective consciousness of the congregation.

Obedience is the key to heaven...following ones own moral compass will consign one to hell...so says the bible...

god created free will! if it wern't for free will we'd all be robots and that's not what the bible says! I think you've misread the bible. God loves us enough to give us free will and after all we've done! Why would he want to take it away. Anyway if you actualy think about it God's will is the most apealling.

 
Slurpie
#86
soory the last paragraph is mine
 
Vanni Fucci
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by Slurpie

god created free will! if it wern't for free will we'd all be robots and that's not what the bible says! I think you've misread the bible. God loves us enough to give us free will and after all we've done! Why would he want to take it away. Anyway if you actualy think about it God's will is the most apealling.

Free will eh?

How is it free will if you must do everything God says or he'll fry your sorry ***?

...and no, God's will doesn't appeal to me in the least...and there are far more interesting, and relevant books to read than your book of fairy tales...
 
Vanni Fucci
#88
Free Willy
 
Slurpie
#89
you like feeling the way you do? (it's only tempoary you know-this is what i think i'm trying not to judge you but if you differ then say so) I wasn't always a christian and when I wasn't is a lot worse then right now!
 
Vanni Fucci
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by Slurpie

you like feeling the way you do?

Not quite sure what you're getting at here, but how I feel has no bearing on what is truth. Facts are facts whether I feel good about them or not.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slurpie

(it's only tempoary you know-this is what i think i'm trying not to judge you but if you differ then say so)

Again, not sure what you're getting at here, could you elaborate please?

Quote: Originally Posted by Slurpie

I wasn't always a christian and when I wasn't is a lot worse then right now!

I wasn't always an infidel, but given the choice, I'll stick to what's testable, and provable. Funny thing is, everyone has that choice, but some choose to be willfully ignorant of the real world?
 
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