Analyzing Health Care


no1important
#31
You said your wife had to wait 1.5 hours for an X-Ray.

Well Blue with all the money you always brag about that Alberta has, why doesn't Klein put more money into Health Care?
 
I think not
#32
no1, you're from Vancouver, have you ever experienced problems with the health care system? Just curious.
 
jackd
#33
Some of the previous comments on the Canadian health care system earlier reported as being "facts" are erroneous.
* The Canadian health care system is in fact the sum of 12 PROVINCIAL programs. The Federal government only set-up some of the guidelines whereas everything else in under provincial jurisdiction. The Federal government only contributes to about 18% of the costs.
Quote:

Access to some high-tech procedures has been limited by a shortage of equipment and hospital beds

Not true in major centers. Don't forget Canada is a very sparsely populated country. It would simply not make sense to have all the high tech equipments and large centers in every small communities across the country. This situation does not exists in the U.S. with 10 times more population on a smaller territory.
Quote:

Private insurance for covered care is not permitted

Not true in every provinces. Some provinces allow for private clinics to provide care and charge the patient for such care, even if they are covered by the system. The costs of cares provided by private clinics/hospitals are deductible from income tax.
Total costs: In every single province, the real public costs of our health care system are identified to the last penny, as everything is paid for from the general funds. It is not so in the U.S. as there are thousands of different programs, insurances companies involved, individual payments, etc. Don't forget to add to the U.S. costs the cost of the millions of personal bankruptcies attributable to hospital/doctors bills.
here's a comparison of costs in different countries.
www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/...er_cap&id=OECD (external - login to view)
 
I think not
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by jackd

Some of the previous comments on the Canadian health care system earlier reported as being "facts" are erroneous.
* The Canadian health care system is in fact the sum of 12 PROVINCIAL programs. The Federal government only set-up some of the guidelines whereas everything else in under provincial jurisdiction. The Federal government only contributes to about 18% of the costs.
I wasn't specific on that, but yes I am aware of that fact.
Quote: Access to some high-tech procedures has been limited by a shortage of equipment and hospital bedsNot true in major centers. Don't forget Canada is a very sparsely populated country. It would simply not make sense to have all the high tech equipments and large centers in every small communities across the country. This situation does not exists in the U.S. with 10 times more population on a smaller territory.
Actually even the Romanow report states that the lack of high-tech procedures and shortage of equipment is widespread.
Quote: Private insurance for covered care is not permittedNot true in every provinces. Some provinces allow for private clinics to provide care and charge the...

Quote has been trimmed
 
jackd
#35
Quote:

Actually even the Romanow report states that the lack of high-tech procedures and shortage of equipment is widespread

Romanow should have looked at what's going on in other OECD countries instead of looking at data from the U.S. only.
Comparing the number of high tech equipment (MIR, CT scanners, Radiation therapy, Lithotrepter, etc) with other OECD countries, show we are about average. The number of high tech procedures and equipments is not necessarily the criteria to refer to in terms of health care treatment adequacy. Life expectancy, infant mortality rate, general population health condition are all showing better results in Canada.
Quote:

Are the deductions of health care costs a fact in Quebec or in all provinces?

There are some variances between provinces, but generally, it is the same. Only Quebec residents fill a separate provincial income tax return.
Quote:

How much of the Canadian tax goes to health care and what are the direct costs to the individual?

For 2003, total health expenditures in Canada were at $103.5Billions, or $3,300. per capita. This includes everything, including drugs (prescription or not, plastic surgery for this woman who does not like her nose, long-term care for the elders, etc. etc)Note: All drugs used by patient while in hospitals are covered by the public system. In addition, drugs are free, or discounted, for all citizens who are below a certain income level, which is also part of the total costs mentioned above. Public funding accounted for 74.6% of the total while 25.4% were financed privately through supplementary insurance, employer-sponsored programs or out-of pocket expenditures.
 
bluealberta
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

You said your wife had to wait 1.5 hours for an X-Ray.

Well Blue with all the money you always brag about that Alberta has, why doesn't Klein put more money into Health Care?

Because every time he tries to do something with health care, the feds jump down his throat. We would love him to use some of the transfer payments in Alberta to improve not only health care, but to make the education system even better than it already is, to use it on infrastructure for roads, etc. I myself am now on a waiting list for an MRI which is now scheduled until early August. If anyone suggests that maybe a private clinic be allowed to operat an MRI machine, paid for from the public health care system, people on the left go beserk when all that new clinic would do would be to provide another outlet. Anyone doing math can see that having two machines instead of one cuts the waiting times in half. And I am not suggesting that people buy the appointment. All I am saying is that the line can be split two ways instead of everyone in the same line.
 
Reverend Blair
#37
So why doesn't Ralphie take some of your riches and buy an MRI machine? Nobody in Ottawa or anywhere else is stopping him from setting up a public clinic.
 
I think not
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by jackd

Life expectancy, infant mortality rate, general population health condition are all showing better results in Canada.

Actually Jackd, all those three reasons have alot to do with the way of life and not soley attributable to health care.

As the Canadian population gets more obese (which is happening in Canada also lately), this life expectancy and general health condition statistic will go down rapidly.

In addition race plays a significant role in health also which directly affects the infant mortality rate and life exptancy. And let me be clear what I mean by race, so I won't be labeled a racist (I know a few that would hop on this). Race in health reflects inherited susceptibility to disease.

Twenty percent of the US population is African-American (60 million, which has shown to have certain susceptibility to certain diseases). Canadas black population is nowhere near this percentage. And I mention this because looking on the shallow top without looking more in depth creates misinformation and assumptions regarding health care. The life expectancy of black men and women continues to lag 6-7 years behind the overall life expectancy of white Americans at each point throughout the life cycle for the reasons I mentioned above.

You also mentioned about equipment and high-tech procedures that the Romanow report compares mostly with US, agreed, I read it, but it also compares with other OECD countries and ranked pretty well as you said.

So here is the paradox, ranking average among other OECD countries in the Romanow report and WHO ranked Canada 30th on the list. what is wrong with this picture? How can Greece who has a decaying health care infrastructure rank 14th and Canada 30th?

Always keep in mind the methodologies used to reach conclusions, this is where everything gets skewed.
 
no1important
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

no1, you're from Vancouver, have you ever experienced problems with the health care system? Just curious.

Personally me no. I know my mom had to wait three months to see a specialist and it will be another couple months before she gets knee replaced. So about a 6-7 month wait. So that could be viewed as being too long or considered a problem. But then it is not life and death.

I have never really had to go to hospital myself (for a long time anyways). But it took me a while to find a doctor who is taking new patients, but the Walk in Clinic is pretty good service, but you do not always get same doctor. But getting tests done (blood work and Ultra sound) is not a wait, but of course they are done by priviate clinics and not hospitals.

My sister in Law from Chilliwack had a problem with one of her overies and by the time it was diagnosed and when she had it operated on, was only a couple days. So on that hand I would say the system provided "good service".

From my and my families experience, we have not had any real major problems, so we really have not had a need too use the medical system too much either so I can not really give a fair answer, to the question.

Of course though like most things it could use tweaking and improvements.
 
I think not
#40
Thanks for your input no1, as jackd stated and of course well known, the health care in Canada is provincial, so there may be varying degrees of "service"

Maybe someone from another province can share some input.
 
bluealberta
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

So why doesn't Ralphie take some of your riches and buy an MRI machine? Nobody in Ottawa or anywhere else is stopping him from setting up a public clinic.

Why does it have to be in a public clinic? Why cannot it be in a private clinic, like the clinic our family doctor operates? Why cannot the doctors in this clinic, if they want, buy an MRI and set it up in their office, with all exams to be paid for by the health care system? Why cannot someone who owns a building not buy an MRI machine, employ certified technicians, and perform exams, with the exams to be paid for by the health care system? Every time a new machine comes on line, the line gets split, thus wait times are shortened.
 
no1important
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

Thanks for your input no1, as jackd stated and of course well known, the health care in Canada is provincial, so there may be varying degrees of "service"

Maybe someone from another province can share some input.

I guess it depends on what it is too. If a lot of people need hip or knee replacements it could be a long or longer wait.

It also depends on the seriousness of "illness" or "ailment".

I know here our local hospital needs to be expanded again or a second one built. More people use emergencey room as a doctors office, as at times it is challanging to find a doctor accepting new patients.

So basically I think it comes down to where you reside, what ailment you have, the seriousness of it, and how many other people are in line for same procedure.

I am surprised you have not recieved more replies to your question.
 
bluealberta
#43
I Think Not:

Well, it looks like there are no more posters, thanks for your information, and maybe we will see you down the road on another thread again, if you know what I mean.

Your info was great and well researched, and I appreciate the work you did. It has given me some other facts to consider when comparing our two systems, and I have learned a lot about the US system from you in the last couple of weeks.
 

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