The Need For Change in Our Education System

[Cannuck]

I've discussed this issue with some of the older members here that still think our education system should still focus on the 3 Rs


Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity? | TED Talk | TED.com

 

[davesmom]

I agree that the 3 R's should be the first things taught. Once they have been mastered, then branch out into other areas of learning. But without the ability to read well, the learning process that continues through life will be restricted. Without 'riting one of the communications skills is lost and without 'rithmatic, you're totally buggered!, can't even count your change.

 

[Frankiedoodle]

What really concerned me was when I heard the fact that not all schools are teaching cursive writing. Some of these students are unable to sign a contract. One kid wasn't able to sign his passport application.

 

[Curious Cdn]

My daughter was learning calligraphy in grades five and six. Then again, she attended a private school that MADE THEM MEMORIZE THE MULTIPLICATION TABLES. I guess that she's washed up at seventeen...no creativity possible, now.

 

[Cannuck]

What really concerned me was when I heard the fact that not all schools are teaching cursive writing. Some of these students are unable to sign a contract. One kid wasn't able to sign his passport application.

You can sign a contract with a squiggly line. Cursive writing is as valuable a skill as shoeing horses.

 

[davesmom]

My daughter was learning calligraphy in grades five and six. Then again, she attended a private school that MADE THEM MEMORIZE THE MULTIPLICATION TABLES. I guess that she's washed up at seventeen...no creativity possible, now.

Many of the school subjects have been dropped or changed to make the teachers' lives easier. The old time teachers spent time every evening grading papers, preparing lessons for the next day ON THEIR OWN TIME and often staying late in the classroom to give special attention to kids who were falling behind. They now just want to work 9 to 4.

The multiplication table was not taught in public school when my son went, in the early '70s. I made him learn it at home.

A boy of about 12 was looking to buy a jackknife at our flea market table for $7.50. He offered a $10 bill. We told him he could have the knife free if he could tell us how much change he should get from his $10. He couldn't tell us, looked to his mother and we said, 'no, you have to figure it out for yourself'. He had to pay the 7.50. Now there's the trouble; he couldn't count his change; he could get ripped off easily. A 12 year old should be in grade 7 or 8. It is inexcusable that he couldn't do that simple math.

 

[Mowich]

My daughter was learning calligraphy in grades five and six. Then again, she attended a private school that MADE THEM MEMORIZE THE MULTIPLICATION TABLES. I guess that she's washed up at seventeen...no creativity possible, now.

I taught calligraphy and always thought it was very creative. I'd say she's already started along a creative path, Curious.

Many of the school subjects have been dropped or changed to make the teachers' lives easier. The old time teachers spent time every evening grading papers, preparing lessons for the next day ON THEIR OWN TIME and often staying late in the classroom to give special attention to kids who were falling behind. They now just want to work 9 to 4.

The multiplication table was not taught in public school when my son went, in the early '70s. I made him learn it at home.

A boy of about 12 was looking to buy a jackknife at our flea market table for $7.50. He offered a $10 bill. We told him he could have the knife free if he could tell us how much change he should get from his $10. He couldn't tell us, looked to his mother and we said, 'no, you have to figure it out for yourself'. He had to pay the 7.50. Now there's the trouble; he couldn't count his change; he could get ripped off easily. A 12 year old should be in grade 7 or 8. It is inexcusable that he couldn't do that simple math.

The old time teachers did not have to put up with what today's teachers do, in many cases. My sister taught school in Vancouver for over twenty years until she had a nervous breakdown due mainly to what she had to deal with in the classroom. When she began teaching the majority of her students understood and/or could speak English. By the time she left the profession well over 2/3rds of her class were ESL students and due to government cutbacks ESL teachers had limited classroom time. This left my sister with students who could not understand anything she was trying to teach them which led some to act out - a few aggressively. She had had seen her paperwork increase twofold over the years, much of it having to do with government rather than the subjects she was teaching or the submissions of her students. She easily spent twelve hours a day with school work. Oh and her union screwed her over too.

 

[taxslave]

The problems all started when some idiot decided they could no longer give out first, second, and third ribbons at sports day because it might hurt the looser's self esteem.

 

[darkbeaver]

Everyone has to be the same.

 

[Frankiedoodle]

Here they are cutting out the Honour Roll because it might make some student's feelings if Johnny was on it but not Joe.

 

[Cannuck]

Many of the school subjects have been dropped or changed to make the teachers' lives easier. The old time teachers spent time every evening grading papers, preparing lessons for the next day ON THEIR OWN TIME and often staying late in the classroom to give special attention to kids who were falling behind. They now just want to work 9 to 4.

The multiplication table was not taught in public school when my son went, in the early '70s. I made him learn it at home.

A boy of about 12 was looking to buy a jackknife at our flea market table for $7.50. He offered a $10 bill. We told him he could have the knife free if he could tell us how much change he should get from his $10. He couldn't tell us, looked to his mother and we said, 'no, you have to figure it out for yourself'. He had to pay the 7.50. Now there's the trouble; he couldn't count his change; he could get ripped off easily. A 12 year old should be in grade 7 or 8. It is inexcusable that he couldn't do that simple math.

You're stuck in the past. Kids need to count change less and less everyday. That's the point of the TED talk. Let's start teaching children in accordance with what they'll need in the future, not on what your generation needs. I'm 51 and I can't remember the last time I paid cash in a store or restaurant.

 

[Dixie Cup]

You're stuck in the past. Kids need to count change less and less everyday. That's the point of the TED talk. Let's start teaching children in accordance with what they'll need in the future, not on what your generation needs. I'm 51 and I can't remember the last time I paid cash in a store or restaurant.

All that is well and good but how do you balance your check book? How do you know whether or not you are receiving a "good deal" if you can't do the math?

No, the kids NEED to learn the 3 R's likely more so now than ever before BECAUSE of how society has changed and adapted. Now it's easier to "screw" people around if you don't know what you're doing. I see it everyday in my line of work and its astonishing.

JMHO

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

All that is well and good but how do you balance your check book? How do you know whether or not you are receiving a "good deal" if you can't do the math?

Reminds me of the T-shirt, "Another day gone by and I haven't used algebra."

No, the kids NEED to learn the 3 R's likely more so now than ever before BECAUSE of how society has changed and adapted. Now it's easier to "screw" people around if you don't know what you're doing. I see it everyday in my line of work and its astonishing.

JMHO

Agreed. If you can read, write, and cipher (only one of which begins with "R," by the way) you can learn anything else you need or want to know.

 

[Ron in Regina]

You're stuck in the past. Kids need to count change less and less everyday. That's the point of the TED talk. Let's start teaching children in accordance with what they'll need in the future, not on what your generation needs. I'm 51 and I can't remember the last time I paid cash in a store or restaurant.

You are at the till in a restaurant, about to pay with debit.
The total is $84.17 and you want to tip through the debit
machine and have the total equal exactly $100. You have
about four seconds to do the math in your head before
you look like a retard. Go!!

I usually pay with debit also, but almost always tip in cash,
as it's nobodies business (Revenue Canada) how much I
leave as a tip for our wait staff....

 

[Cannuck]

All that is well and good but how do you balance your check book? How do you know whether or not you are receiving a "good deal" if you can't do the math?

I don't think anybody is saying we shouldn't teach math. The point of the video...and the point that most seem to be missing...is that it isn't as important now as it was back then. I'm the treasurer of a couple of organizations and I use QuickBooks on one and Simply Accounting on the other. With zero accounting training, I'm able to look after the books of two organizations that have over 1/2 million dollars a year going through the bank accounts. The world is changing. Our education system needs to change as well.

 

[taxslave]

I don't think anybody is saying we shouldn't teach math. The point of the video...and the point that most seem to be missing...is that it isn't as important now as it was back then. I'm the treasurer of a couple of organizations and I use QuickBooks on one and Simply Accounting on the other. With zero accounting training, I'm able to look after the books of two organizations that have over 1/2 million dollars a year going through the bank accounts. The world is changing. Our education system needs to change as well.

All well and good but you are depending on a computer to be right because without some basic math skills you would not know if there is a problem or how to solve it if by some chance you did find it.
Basic math is so important that in most trades they have a math class in apprenticeship training. Far more important than knowing who ruled the muddle east 5000 years ago or memorizing british poetry from 250 years ago.

You are right about the education system requiring change. It MUST focus on what students require to make it in the world, not what is best for the unionized teachers.

 

[Cannuck]

All well and good but you are depending on a computer to be right because without some basic math skills you would not know if there is a problem or how to solve it if by some chance you did find it.

Yes, we are increasingly dependent on computers. It is the future. Such is life.

Basic math is so important that in most trades they have a math class in apprenticeship training.

Yup, math is important in the trades. Singing lessons are important in the entertainment industry.

 

[darkbeaver]

I don't think anybody is saying we shouldn't teach math. The point of the video...and the point that most seem to be missing...is that it isn't as important now as it was back then. I'm the treasurer of a couple of organizations and I use QuickBooks on one and Simply Accounting on the other. With zero accounting training, I'm able to look after the books of two organizations that have over 1/2 million dollars a year going through the bank accounts. The world is changing. Our education system needs to change as well.

You're sure that back then won't be tomorrow. We should teach history and the cost of forgetting it.

Yes, we are increasingly dependent on computers. It is the future. Such is life.
Yup, math is important in the trades. Singing lessons are important in the entertainment industry.

Computer dependency is sure suicide. Sooner or later old Sol will burp and erase the twenty-first century and all living on its teat.

 

[taxslave]

Yes, we are increasingly dependent on computers. It is the future. Such is life.



Yup, math is important in the trades. Singing lessons are important in the entertainment industry.

Math is important in running any business. Or for that matter any position above data entry clerk. Singing you can learn on your own time.

 

[Cannuck]

Computer dependency is sure suicide. Sooner or later old Sol will burp and erase the twenty-first century and all living on its teat.

...and yet here you are...

Math is important in running any business. Or for that matter any position above data entry clerk. Singing you can learn on your own time.

hehehehe...you expect everybody to run their own business...how cute..