Ridiculous Sentencing

[SLM]

You know here in Canada, if you rape, molest a child, or beat your family you might get, oh I don't know, 7 years or so. First offenses often shorter. That's ridiculous, these are individuals that are proven dangerous. Sane, rational people often look at this and ask "Do we have to wait until they kill someone?". Now I'm not the 'throw the book at them' type, I don't advocate shoving people into prison for every little thing, just the brutual violent stuff and keep them in there. Not just as punishment/consequence but also to simply protect the public.

But then we venture south of the border and yes, I know, very high incarceration rate. But still, down in the U.S. we get sentences like this one.

Arizona gunman, Jared Loughner, gets seven life terms - World - Canoe.ca

This would be the guy that shot the congresswoman in Arizona and killed six people, one a little girl if I remember correctly. So yes, he should be in jail for the rest of his life. But seven consecutive life sentences. Seven.

I know, it makes a statement. Part of that statement has to be the inability of the legal system to understand the lifespan of a human being surely.

I look at these two radical extremes and just wonder if there is any sense left anywhere.

 

[captain morgan]

I believe that the prosecution tries to separate the charges in order to be 'safe'.. If all the charges were rolled-up into one big charge - and if the defense were successful - maybe all of the individual crimes would be thrown-out .

In effect, if the first charge is over turned, there is the second one, third, etc... In this case, maybe the prosecutor was successful on all

 

[karrie]

I get frustrated with the light sentences too SLM. Seeing your friend bump into their rapist on the street after he served his 2 years in prison for example, makes you angry at the ridiculous ways some things are sentenced. But, the consecutive life sentences, to me, that's about the victims more than the criminal. All seven people shot, all seven lives ruined, got their justice. He didn't just get convicted for the little girl. He didn't just get convicted for the politician. He was convicted for all of them. I think there's a logic in that.

 

[Goober]

Oh and you have the ones that are sentenced to 2 life terms without parole plus 400 years - sentences to be served consecutively.

 

[SLM]

I believe that the prosecution tries to separate the charges in order to be 'safe'.. If all the charges were rolled-up into one big charge - and if the defense were successful - maybe all of the individual crimes would be thrown-out .

In effect, if the first charge is over turned, there is the second one, third, etc... In this case, maybe the prosecutor was successful on all

I can see the separate charges that makes sense but to specifically make all the sentences consecutive just seems kind of extreme to me. Surely after two or three consecutive life sentences we're pretty safe to have the rest of them run concurrent. It's more of a statement I think, the sentencing part of it.

I get frustrated with the light sentences too SLM. Seeing your friend bump into their rapist on the street after he served his 2 years in prison for example, makes you angry at the ridiculous ways some things are sentenced. But, the consecutive life sentences, to me, that's about the victims more than the criminal. All seven people shot, all seven lives ruined, got their justice. He didn't just get convicted for the little girl. He didn't just get convicted for the politician. He was convicted for all of them. I think there's a logic in that.

Yeah I get the symbolic 'reasoning' behind the excessive sentences but it's just when you look at it comparatively between the two nations, it's so far apart it's crazy!

It is really distressing to me to see so many light sentences here in Canada.

 

[Goober]

I believe that the prosecution tries to separate the charges in order to be 'safe'.. If all the charges were rolled-up into one big charge - and if the defense were successful - maybe all of the individual crimes would be thrown-out .

In effect, if the first charge is over turned, there is the second one, third, etc... In this case, maybe the prosecutor was successful on all

The Us Prosecutors also have a conviction rate of approx 90 % - Going by memory- may be wrong- they load up the charge sheets and work downwards -

 

[WLDB]

I always did find it strange and kind of funny that they sentence people to centuries. Just saying "Life in prison with no parole" makes more sense.

I definitely agree that sentences for rape and child abuse (physical or sexual) are way too low here. They should have been fixing this with that omnibus crime bill instead of going after victimless crimes involving drugs.

 

[SLM]

The Us Prosecutors also have a conviction rate of approx 90 % - Going by memory- may be wrong- they load up the charge sheets and work downwards -

I can't say I think that's a bad thing really. Of course it all hinges on the police arresting the right guy too.

 

[captain morgan]

I can see the separate charges that makes sense but to specifically make all the sentences consecutive just seems kind of extreme to me. Surely after two or three consecutive life sentences we're pretty safe to have the rest of them run concurrent. It's more of a statement I think, the sentencing part of it.

It certainly is extreme, but in light of the crimes that were committed, they were also extreme.

I don't know the answer to this question, but one of the things that drives me nuts is the 2-for-1 time that people get for the time they spend in jail before the trial... Maybe that is the offset or justification for (some) of the consecutive sentencing practices.

Yeah - I doubt it too... It's probably just sending a punitive message

 

[Goober]

Conviction rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The conviction rate of a prosecutor or government is the number of convictions divided by the number of criminal cases brought. Japan has a conviction rate that exceeds 99%, which has been attributed to low prosecutorial budgets impelling understaffed prosecutors to present judges with only the most obviously guilty defendants.[1] In the U.S. federal court system, the conviction rose from approximately 75 percent to approximately 85% between 1972 and 1992.[2] The conviction rate is also high in U.S. state courts. Coughlan writes, "In recent years, the conviction rate has averaged approximately 84% in Texas, 82% in California, 72% in New York, 67% in North Carolina, and 59% in Florida."[3]

http://www.justice.gov/usao/reading_room/reports/asr2010/10statrpt.pdf

 

[SLM]

It certainly is extreme, but in light of the crimes that were committed, they were also extreme.

I don't know the answer to this question, but one of the things that drives me nuts is the 2-for-1 time that people get for the time they spend in jail before the trial... Maybe that is the offset or justification for (some) of the consecutive sentencing practices.

Yeah - I doubt it too... It's probably just sending a punitive message

That's it exactly. Nothing wrong whatsoever with sending a message. Sentenced to the rest of your natural life in prison without possibility for parole sends the same message. I just think sometimes that the 300 year or 400 year prison sentences are grotesque. It's over doing it, if you know what I'm saying.

Now I would definitely love to see some life sentences, or pretty damned close to it, handed out here a little bit more often.

 

[JamesBondo]

I believe that "life in prison with no chance of parole" is only 12 years in Canada.

I would totally support sentences in the hundreds of years for mass murders. Murder should not be cheaper by the dozen.

 

[petros]

That's it exactly. Nothing wrong whatsoever with sending a message. Sentenced to the rest of your natural life in prison without possibility for parole sends the same message. I just think sometimes that the 300 year or 400 year prison sentences are grotesque. It's over doing it, if you know what I'm saying.

Now I would definitely love to see some life sentences, or pretty damned close to it, handed out here a little bit more often.

The reason behind those long sentecnes is to eliminate any chance of parole or early release due to whatever circumstances might arise in future.

 

[taxslave]

I can see the separate charges that makes sense but to specifically make all the sentences consecutive just seems kind of extreme to me. Surely after two or three consecutive life sentences we're pretty safe to have the rest of them run concurrent. It's more of a statement I think, the sentencing part of it.



Yeah I get the symbolic 'reasoning' behind the excessive sentences but it's just when you look at it comparatively between the two nations, it's so far apart it's crazy!

It is really distressing to me to see so many light sentences here in Canada.

With that many life sentences he is unlikely to get early parole as so often happens in Canada.

 

[karrie]

Yeah I get the symbolic 'reasoning' behind the excessive sentences but it's just when you look at it comparatively between the two nations, it's so far apart it's crazy!

It is really distressing to me to see so many light sentences here in Canada.

If you think those kind of sentences for murderers is insane, you should go look at some of the things people have gone away for life for in the US under the three strikes law.

 

[taxslave]

That's it exactly. Nothing wrong whatsoever with sending a message. Sentenced to the rest of your natural life in prison without possibility for parole sends the same message. I just think sometimes that the 300 year or 400 year prison sentences are grotesque. It's over doing it, if you know what I'm saying.

Now I would definitely love to see some life sentences, or pretty damned close to it, handed out here a little bit more often.

Maybe these sentences can be inherited? Kind of like curses going to the tenth generation.

 

[SLM]

If you think those kind of sentences for murderers is insane, you should go look at some of the things people have gone away for life for in the US under the three strikes law.

Oh I know, three strikes is a good idea in principle but it's how it's applied that's wacky.

And yet again we have Dangerous Offender legislation here but apparently that's quite difficult to get applied unless you're a Bernardo or an Olsen.

Maybe these sentences can be inherited? Kind of like curses going to the tenth generation.

Talk about the sins of the father being visited upon the son!8O

 

[petros]

And yet again we have Dangerous Offender legislation here but apparently that's quite difficult to get applied unless you're a Bernardo or an Olsen.

You're right.

This guy lived just down the block from me I hung out with his brother.

Convicted man declared dangerous offender - CBC News

Talk about the sins of the father being visited upon the son!8O

It goes both ways...

His parents begged the Crown to lock him up for life the first time he offended at 13 or 14. If he could have, his dad would have dropped him down a well like a sack of kittens.

 

[shadowshiv]

If you think those kind of sentences for murderers is insane, you should go look at some of the things people have gone away for life for in the US under the three strikes law.

A guy got sent to prison for the rest of his life by stealing a bicycle(it was one of those bait-bikes, similar to the bait cars used to nab car thieves), as it was his third felony conviction. It seems crazy getting sent to prison for life for stealing a bike, but it was his third felony conviction after all. He knew that the 3 Strike law was there, and as he had already had 2 strikes on him, he should have been smart enough to not find himself in the situation that he did. I'm not saying he necessarily deserved the life sentence, but certainly he can't really blame anyone but himself.

 

[Dingus]

Think yourself lucky. Here in England, if you sexually abuse children for 5 decades, you get an OBE, fame fortune and nonorary degress. If you are a terrorist and preach hate against the citizens that you have chosen to live among, you get welfare benefits, free health care, subsidised housing and police protection. If you head up the BBC and are incompetant, work for the BBC for just 54 days, and know NOTHING about programmes naming (wrongly) paedophile MPs, and (wrongly) covering up prominent celebraties carrying out "kiddie fiddling" abuse and rape of minors, you et to resign with a 1/2 million pound pay off. GREAT Britain. - yeah right.