Conservative 'Robocalls' tricked voters in last election


WLDB
#151
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

If the trail leads to the P.M.O. then we've got the stupidest P.M. since old John A. and personally I'd be in favour of seeing him get 10 years in the Gulag. I don't believe it's going to play out that way, probably some lesser (stupider) light with big ambitions.

PM's never get in trouble. From John A. to Chretien the only penalty they suffer is at the ballot box. Sometimes, not even then if they quit in time (Chretien).
 
JLM
#152
It should be interesting to watch the Dippers now, bet they already have a few boxes on the front steps at Sussex Drive!
 
earth_as_one
#153
Someone lower down would throw themselves on their sword first. I doubt the PM was involved, but its likely its someone the PM knows... probably an overly enthusiastic Conservative back room person with no ethics. (Does that narrow it down?)
 
Machjo
#154
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

It should be interesting to watch the Dippers now, bet they already have a few boxes on the front steps at Sussex Drive!

It depends. It could be that those conservatives who are involved get burned, while those Conservatives who weren't might escape unscathed.

As for the Dippers, if they're smart, they'll just let the police and elections Canada deal with it and themselves just focus on policy; any Dipper that just starts throwing accusations left right and centre and ends up accusing a conservative who wasn't involved, that could come back to haunt that Dipper too.

Liberal staffer behind 'Vikileaks' campaign - Politics - CBC News

Things seem to be getting that much messier, though I'm happily surprised at all the apologies, acceptance of apologies, and decorum in this article. This is how politicians ought to always behave.
 
WLDB
#155
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

It should be interesting to watch the Dippers now, bet they already have a few boxes on the front steps at Sussex Drive!

Not the best time. There isn't even a permanent leader yet for the NDP or Liberals yet. And depending on how the vote goes next month the leader might not have a seat in parliament.
 
B00Mer
+1
#156
Big deal.. that bill effects both Liberals and Conservatives.. I voted for Harper, and I own VicToewsSucks.com : Canadian Public Safety Minister Vic Toews (external - login to view)

So what's your point?

Back to the topic of Robocalls - the issue is they swayed specific jurisdictions by deceiving voters to go to the wrong polls. What have we become, a banana republic?? That is just wrong and those jurisdictions should hold a re-vote. PERIOD!!
 
WLDB
#157
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post


Liberal staffer behind 'Vikileaks' campaign - Politics - CBC News

Things seem to be getting that much messier, though I'm happily surprised at all the apologies, acceptance of apologies, and decorum in this article. This is how politicians ought to always behave.

Indeed it was nice that Bob Rae came forward with this himself rather than have the press dig it up and force it out. Accept responsibility and move on. Thats the way it should be done.
 
JLM
#158
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Someone lower down would throw themselves on their sword first. I doubt the PM was involved, but its likely its someone the PM knows... probably an overly enthusiastic Conservative back room person with no ethics. (Does that narrow it down?)

I can just hear Harper "I sure as hell don't like it, but it's entirely up to you and if you do it I'd better NEVER hear anything about it or your *** is outa here"

Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

It depends. It could be that those conservatives who are involved get burned, while those Conservatives who weren't might escape unscathed.

As for the Dippers, if they're smart, they'll just let the police and elections Canada deal with it and themselves just focus on policy; any Dipper that just starts throwing accusations left right and centre and ends up accusing a conservative who wasn't involved, that could come back to haunt that Dipper too.

Liberal staffer behind 'Vikileaks' campaign - Politics - CBC News

Things seem to be getting that much messier, though I'm happily surprised at all the apologies, acceptance of apologies, and decorum in this article. This is how politicians ought to always behave.

Absolutely, Boob Rae is doing a good job for everyone & he probably figures everyone has forgotten he ran Ontario into the poor house.

I think there is a possiblity (possibly slim) that Boob Rae or someone else not connected to Harper, rigged the whole thing to make it appear to be the Conservatives. Like, only an idiot could think he/she wouldn't get caught, unless they camouflaged it so well to make it look like someone else. Keep a close eye on Harper - he's either sh*tting his drawers, or he's laughing like a hyena!
 
Cannuck
+1
#159
A clear conscience.

A clear conscience - Yes Prime Minister - BBC comedy - YouTube

 
Goober
#160
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Someone lower down would throw themselves on their sword first. I doubt the PM was involved, but its likely its someone the PM knows... probably an overly enthusiastic Conservative back room person with no ethics. (Does that narrow it down?)

Are you a high ranking back room Conservative who knows the PM?
 
damngrumpy
#161
First of all the regulations that govern elections apply to all parties and if they breech the trust by
ignoring the law, then measures have to be taken. If that means over turning the election and
causing a re-vote that would demonstrate we are not a banana republic but a society based on
the concept of laws.
I think this could turn into a Watergate situation as more and more riding's are coming forward
with similar situations. It was not the fact the Tories did this, it is the fact that someone identified
themselves as being with Elections Canada. That is a very serious matter that must be dealt with.

We have overlooked the law of the land for decades and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Back in 1997 there were members and candidates from all political parties that were signing petitions
and promising to vote in the House in specific ways in exchange for voter support from specific groups.
Groups like the Christian Coalition, Women's Rights, and a host of others. All this despite the fact that
in Canada it is not legal. You heard it right in this country that is illegal to promise to vote in a specific
way on a particular issue as part of gaining support for that particular group. Its not considered a
promise but a pledge. I can't remember all the details of it, but my remarks come from having at the
time launched a complaint under a section of the act. All the parties were not happy with my threatened
action and Elections Canada's legal advisers suggested we had grounds but the forces that be would
not proceed with the case. Now they are paying a price for nearly a century of silence.
I should look those old files up they are somewhere in my basement. I hadn't thought of it until just
now.
 
mentalfloss
#162
It's good to see Rae acting like a true leader and taking responsibility for the actions of the staffer. A pretty stark contrast from Harper's decision to distance himself from any guilty party in his own friggin caucus on the Robocall issue.

A true leader wouldn't shrug something this serious off, raise his hands and proclaim: "not my problem."

But I guess we should be used to Harper's cowardice by now.
 
B00Mer
#163
if you have the time watch this video.. really good from the NDP

The Coming Crisis: Robocalls to trick voters draw opposition fire (external - login to view)

www.racknine.com (external - login to view)
www.2call.ca (external - login to view)

The Conservatives defended themselves Thursday over links to a company used to make fraudulent phone calls that sent some voters to the wrong polling stations last year.

The party's elite, from Prime Minister Stephen Harper to Jenni Byrne, who ran the national campaign during the 2011 election, was forced to address the issue after a report in the Ottawa Citizen.

The report Thursday said fraudulent calls claiming to be from Elections Canada were traced to a company in Edmonton called Racknine, which provides a service that allows a recorded message to be sent to a large number of phone numbers for pennies per call. Racknine operates the service under the name 2call.ca.

The calls used a pre-recorded message with a female voice that claimed to be calling on behalf of Elections Canada to direct voters in ridings across the country to the wrong polling stations. The message was recorded in French and in English. Read More
Last edited by B00Mer; Feb 27th, 2012 at 10:26 PM..
 
JLM
#164
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

It's good to see Rae acting like a true leader and taking responsibility for the actions of the staffer. A pretty stark contrast from Harper's decision to distance himself from any guilty party in his own friggin caucus on the Robocall issue.

A true leader wouldn't shrug something this serious off, raise his hands and proclaim: "not my problem."

But I guess we should be used to Harper's cowardice by now.

Pretty hard to judge Harper until we know what happened.
 
PoliticalNick
#165
I don't think this will make it all the way to the PMO. Somebody ( or multiple somebodies) will take the fall long before it gets near Harpo. If it proves to be a concerted campaign by the Cons this scandal and the way he has handled it will be a big mark on Harpo for the rest of his term and into the next election.
 
WLDB
#166
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

I don't think this will make it all the way to the PMO. Somebody ( or multiple somebodies) will take the fall long before it gets near Harpo. If it proves to be a concerted campaign by the Cons this scandal and the way he has handled it will be a big mark on Harpo for the rest of his term and into the next election.

Agreed.

Not a fan of Harper or his tactics but I don't think he'd do anything illegal or authorize it. Then again, who knows what an investigation will uncover.
 
JLM
#167
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

Agreed.

Not a fan of Harper or his tactics but I don't think he'd do anything illegal or authorize it. Then again, who knows what an investigation will uncover.

I think you are right, BUT smarter people than him have pulled the wool over peoples' eyes & if by slim chance he is behind all this I hope he gets the maximum in the Gulag!
 
Vanni Fucci
+3
#168
Hoo boy! I gotta tell ya, I find myself rather sickened by these developments. As it should any voting Canadian, regardless of their political stripe.

What sickens me even more, is the knowledge that those responsible will likely never be held accountable. All low to mid-level staffer in any conservative office should be dusting off their resumes in anticipation of being thrown on this grenade!

I view any investigation into this with extreme incredulity as I don't think that any agency involved is capable of following the convoluted threads...and even if followed to their conclusion, will likely not result in any significant change, as the Canada Elections Act is too cumbersome a tool to oust illigitimate governments.

I try to be hopefully optimistic in the face of such tyranny, as all should be able to agree that whether it was by a few or by many, the perpetrators of this act were purposefully trying to affect the outcome of an election, and all involved are as reprehensible as child pornographers!

...on crack!
 
JLM
#169
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

Hoo boy! I gotta tell ya, I find myself rather sickened by these developments. As it should any voting Canadian, regardless of their political stripe.

What sickens me even more, is the knowledge that those responsible will likely never be held accountable. All low to mid-level staffer in any conservative office should be dusting off their resumes in anticipation of being thrown on this grenade!

I view any investigation into this with extreme incredulity as I don't think that any agency involved is capable of following the convoluted threads...and even if followed to their conclusion, will likely not result in any significant change, as the Canada Elections Act is too cumbersome a tool to oust illigitimate governments.

I try to be hopefully optimistic in the face of such tyranny, as all should be able to agree that whether it was by a few or by many, the perpetrators of this act were purposefully trying to affect the outcome of an election, and all involved are as reprehensible as child pornographers!

...on crack!

No doubt some damage has already begun! It would be nice if we could know with 100% certainty before that began.
 
Vanni Fucci
#170
That this has happened at all has me ready to rage! I just don't know who at yet...
 
Machjo
#171
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

It's good to see Rae acting like a true leader and taking responsibility for the actions of the staffer. A pretty stark contrast from Harper's decision to distance himself from any guilty party in his own friggin caucus on the Robocall issue.

A true leader wouldn't shrug something this serious off, raise his hands and proclaim: "not my problem."

But I guess we should be used to Harper's cowardice by now.

I'll defend Harper here. If he genuinely knew nothing about this, then he's right to think of this as strictly a legal issue and those involved will pay; and if a re-election is ordered either by the Supreme Court or the Governor General, then he bows to that decision.

I can criticize Harper for many things, but if he truly is innocent of this, then his behaviour thus far is reasonable. Now if he is privy to something, that's a different matter of course.
 
mentalfloss
#172
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

I can criticize Harper for many things, but if he truly is innocent of this, then his behaviour thus far is reasonable. Now if he is privy to something, that's a different matter of course.

Leadership has nothing to do with "true responsibility", it's about taking responsibility. Let's not forget that this kind of behaviour is why Harper is partly stigmatized as robotic and ineffectual, while Rae has been making some serious headway in the last few months.
 
Machjo
#173
In fact should it eventually be confirmed that these robocalls may very well have affected local candidates such as to decide the winner, I could even see the GG decide to dissolve Parliament and call another election. Though of couse it would first have to be reasonably proven that these robocalls did in fact affect the election outcome to warrant this.
 
mentalfloss
#174
I don't think another election is necessary.

The first step is to show which swing ridings were truly affected, and then hold byelections just for those ridings. Conservatives that legitimately got in to power, shouldn't have to re-apply.
 
Machjo
#175
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Leadership has nothing to do with "true responsibility", it's about taking responsibility. Let's not forget that this kind of behaviour is why Harper is partly stigmatized as robotic and ineffectual, while Rae has been making some serious headway in the last few months.

Parliament is the legislative, not the judicial branch of government. As such, once it becomes a criminal investigation, Parliamentarians ought to stay out of it beyond the degree to which they can be of assistance to the courts.

If harpo knows something, he ought to bring it up with the appropriate authorities and not necessarily the public to protect presumption of innocence.
 
mentalfloss
#176
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Parliament is the legislative, not the judicial branch of government. As such, once it becomes a criminal investigation, Parliamentarians ought to stay out of it beyond the degree to which they can be of assistance to the courts.

If harpo knows something, he ought to bring it up with the appropriate authorities and not necessarily the public to protect presumption of innocence.

My argument is about the public's judgement of leadership, not about legalities.
 
Machjo
#177
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

I don't think another election is necessary.

The first step is to show that a swing riding was truly affected, and then hold byelections for that riding. Conservatives that legitimately got in to power, shouldn't have to re-apply.

Agreed. but in the end, it ought to be the Court and not parliament that calls that one so as to maintain parliamentary impartiality in judicial issues.

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

My argument is about the public's judgement of leadership, not about legalities.

And maybe that's the problem. We need to educate the public to think more critically and not so sheepishly. That's why we're electing the clowns we have now, not because of substance but because they look good on the campaign trail.
 
JLM
#178
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Agreed. but in the end, it ought to be the Court and not parliament that calls that one so as to maintain parliamentary impartiality in judicial issues.



And maybe that's the problem. We need to educate the public to think more critically and not so sheepishly. That's why we're electing the clowns we have now, not because of substance but because they look good on the campaign trail.

You got that right- the public jumps to conclusions at both the polling booth and at the first hint of wrong doing. I say let's just wait until the cops submit their report and go from there.
 
mentalfloss
#179
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

And maybe that's the problem. We need to educate the public to think more critically and not so sheepishly.

LOL

Just because I can recognize poor leadership, doesn't mean I disagree with how the legislation would be carried out. If you want to settle for lower leadership standards, go right ahead.
 
Machjo
+1
#180
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

LOL

Just because I can recognize poor leadership, doesn't mean I disagree with how the legislation would be carried out. If you want to settle for lower leadership standards, go right ahead.

So what are you expecting; that harper stick his nose in judicial issues? he's a member of the legislative, not judicial, branch of government.

A good leader does what needs to be done but does not engage in pointless busy-work. that just makes him look good for the electorate.
 

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