Conservative 'Robocalls' tricked voters in last election


Tonington
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

I know that but common sense also dictates that it would be near impossible for any party to get the membership lists of other parties from that many ridings.

You don't need membership lists. The data that the Conservatives have built up on people is legend. They use their campaign donations very well, they have databases which include all sorts of things from the number of times they've contacted you, to how likely you are to vote Conservative, to how much you've donated, and probably lots more. It was in the news a few years back now, when they used their databases to send Rosh Hashanah cards. It's not like the other parties aren't also doing it, it's just that the Conservative Party system is far better.

Here's a news clip from the time this story was making waves:
Someone is watching you - Editorial - The Telegram (external - login to view)
 
JLM
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

You don't need membership lists. The data that the Conservatives have built up on people is legend. They use their campaign donations very well, they have databases which include all sorts of things from the number of times they've contacted you, to how likely you are to vote Conservative, to how much you've donated, and probably lots more. It was in the news a few years back now, when they used their databases to send Rosh Hashanah cards. It's not like the other parties aren't also doing it, it's just that the Conservative Party system is far better.

Here's a news clip from the time this story was making waves:
Someone is watching you - Editorial - The Telegram (external - login to view)

What percentage of the electorate do you really think they have these figures on? 2%, 3%, 5%? When these political parties phone here I tell them to "F**k off"- what data do you really think they can compile from that?
 
Cannuck
+2 / -1
#93
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

When these political parties phone here I tell them to "F**k off"- what data do you really think they can compile from that?

They probably put you on the "ornery old fart" list.
 
taxslave
#94
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

In BC?

Yes. I had to sign for my copy of the membership list for the riding and I could not have even got a copy for the adjacent riding much less for another party anywhere.
I didn't vote for any of the 3 main parties so I don't care who was responsible as long as they get punished. The whole affair just has a fishy smell to it.
Something that seems to have been missed so far is that it is more or less common knowledge what robo dialing firm the cons used so it is also possible that some $hit disturber with no links to any party found a way to call certain people . Perhaps by noting addresses with lawn signs and used a cross directory or a liberal did it to try and force another election. Interesting that the calls only seem to be in ridings that the liberals lost don't you think? Other than they did loose kind of a lot of them.
 
Cannuck
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Yes. I had to sign for my copy of the membership list for the riding and I could not have even got a copy for the adjacent riding much less for another party anywhere.
I didn't vote for any of the 3 main parties so I don't care who was responsible as long as they get punished. The whole affair just has a fishy smell to it.
Something that seems to have been missed so far is that it is more or less common knowledge what robo dialing firm the cons used so it is also possible that some $hit disturber with no links to any party found a way to call certain people . Perhaps by noting addresses with lawn signs and used a cross directory or a liberal did it to try and force another election. Interesting that the calls only seem to be in ridings that the liberals lost don't you think? Other than they did loose kind of a lot of them.


You had to sign for it. Wow...that is incredibly tight security.
 
JLM
#96
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

You had to sign for it. Wow...that is incredibly tight security.

Maybe or maybe just someone covering their ***.
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

NO I don't think the media made it all up...

No you didn't, but calling it a non issue and saying "So until that happens we don't know if it's a different class altogether. How much sh*t does the media generate?" does suggest you might, it's one possible interpretation. My point was that we DO know it's in a different class altogether, it's a direct attempt to interfere with people's right to vote, no different in principle from stationing goons at the entrance to a polling station to prevent opposition supporters from entering.

On a different tack, you don't need party membership lists to pull this off, there's no indication in the reports I've seen that only party members were targeted. All you need is a voters list and the data from the campaign offices about known supporters and non supporters. You don't even have to purloin that from the opposition campaign, your own canvassing in the riding will give you enough information, just go around looking at the signs people put up.
 
Tonington
#98
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

When these political parties phone here I tell them to "F**k off"- what data do you really think they can compile from that?

Not likely to donate, don't waste your time calling. You'd be surprised how valuable information can be that people are willing to give away. Facebook is valued over a $billion because of that.
 
JLM
#99
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

No you didn't, but calling it a non issue and saying "So until that happens we don't know if it's a different class altogether. How much sh*t does the media generate?" does suggest you might, it's one possible interpretation. My point was that we DO know it's in a different class altogether, it's a direct attempt to interfere with people's right to vote, no different in principle from stationing goons at the entrance to a polling station to prevent opposition supporters from entering.

On a different tack, you don't need party membership lists to pull this off, there's no indication in the reports I've seen that only party members were targeted. All you need is a voters list and the data from the campaign offices about known supporters and non supporters. You don't even have to purloin that from the opposition campaign, your own canvassing in the riding will give you enough information, just go around looking at the signs people put up.

Anything is possible, I was just going by what I saw on the news this afternoon (I have nothing more so far to go on) so I'm not getting too excited yet and am certainly not ready to accept that "it's the biggest political scandal in Canadian history"- yet anyway.

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Not likely to donate, don't waste your time calling. You'd be surprised how valuable information can be that people are willing to give away. Facebook is valued over a $billion because of that.

THAT I can easily believe. Ironically I advised my young grand daughters this evening that ANY THING they put on Facebook can end up anywhere.
 
PoliticalNick
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

If I had said person(s) would that have worked for your small brain?

My brain would certainly have understood that using that vernacular would point to there being multiple people involved which is much more believable than your original claim that it was some over-eager and misguided underling acting all alone. Hope none of those words are to big for your little brain.

Quote:

So far nothing I have read has proved there was more than one person or that it was done with any direction from party officials.

Nobody has put out any proof of anything at this point really. All we know as actual facts are that some misleading calls were made on election day through a company that was used by the CPC. Everything else is speculation and educated guessing.

Quote:

How about you explain just how even a group of con supporters got the lists of Liberal members and now posibly NDP members as well.in 18 or so ridings?

I could probably get this info in less than a day with a few entries into the right search engine.

Quote:

These lists are not normally handed out even to party volunteers on a mass basis.

Exactly why a lot of people are speculating their was involment from some high ranking party officials.

Quote:

Do you believe that the conservatives planted moles in 18 Liberal riding offices just to get copies of their members lists?

Possible but if they were as smart as you like to think they would just have one good mole at Elections Canada where they have all the info.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Ya think? Bigger than Trudeaugate, Mulroneygate, Adscam? I'd want more info before making that prediction. But still you could be right...................we'll see!

I don't think there is a party out there that hasn't 'misdirected' funds at some point but this would be the first time for actual mass scale election fraud if that is how it pans out. To me that is far bigger than some missing money.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

I know that but common sense also dictates that it would be near impossible for any party to get the membership lists of other parties from that many ridings. If you just use the voters lists you are just as likely to screw up your own supporters as well. It would seem to me that if only Liberal supporters were receiving the bogus calls the perp would have to be a Liberal supporter, probably at the national headquarters because that is the only place that would have all the ridings membership lists.
There are some very devious minds at play in all parties so it is not impossible that the libs orchestrated this to try and force another election just after they ordain their new leader.
Or I could be completely off base.

Wow, you really are a hardcore CPC supporter aren't you. The Libs did it to themselves to blame the Cons later and get a whole new election??? As much as I like the idea of a new national election the only recourse I can actually find in the election act is a by-election in those ridings affected and any candidate found to be involved banned from running for 5 years. Hardly the reason for the great conspiracy you suggest....did you run out of tinfoil for your hats when you came up with this idea???

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Anything is possible, I was just going by what I saw on the news this afternoon (I have nothing more so far to go on) so I'm not getting too excited yet and am certainly not ready to accept that "it's the biggest political scandal in Canadian history"- yet anyway.

Just exactly how much fraud and deception in the actual election process do you need for it to become the biggest scandal in Canadian politics.

Quote:

THAT I can easily believe. Ironically I advised my young grand daughters this evening that ANY THING they put on Facebook can end up anywhere.

Just ask Harpo and his pals! An innocent photo with a public figure can wind up at CPC headquarters where they will issue the orders to physically remove you from an 'open' town hall meeting with Harpo. Even if you happen to be a naive young girl.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#101
The party is trying to distance itself by saying a rogue operator did this. I have a problem with
that. Phone banks and who gets access is tightly secured and I don't think the tooth fairy did it
so it leaves the operatives in specific riding's. The party is also in a serious problem. If they did
not do this they have to explain their lack of security and how peoples private information was
handled. Membership lists are not just handed out there is requirements that have to be met.
One would be a candidate running for a nomination and so on.
More than one riding and apparently more than one message was delivered during those calls.
This was far more organized that people are letting on.
If they are guilty subverting democracy is a serious offence and no one would want to be part
of that on paper.
 
Dexter Sinister
+2
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

,,. how peoples private information was handled.

But you don't need private information to do this. Voters lists are public information, lawn signs are public information, that's all the data you need. What else you need is people to cruise the neighborhood noting the addresses where Liberal signs are displayed, correlating that with the voters list, looking up phone numbers in public phone directories, creating a database of phone numbers of known Liberal supporters, doing the data entry, composing and recording the messages, arranging and paying for a contract with a call centre service like RackNine, uploading the data, and configuring the software to start up on a certain date and time. It's inconceivable that a single low level rogue campaign worker could have done this alone, it takes money and organization and planning. It had to be somebody with authority to direct people, and authority to spend campaign funds, or some zealous private citizen with far more resources than most of us have.
 
JLM
#103
To play "Devil's Advocate" would it be possible for a computer whiz/nut job and a little knowledgable about political demographics to compile a list of names, phone #s and political affiliations, from sources like Facebook, Twitter etc. attach it to a message and set it all up for automatic dialing, just like all the other computerized sh*t that comes over the phone? I don't doubt that both Harper and Boob Rae are capable of nefarious sh*t, but for the small number of voters involved it seems kind of childish.
 
Dexter Sinister
#104
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

To play "Devil's Advocate" would it be possible for a computer whiz/nut job...

Sure, but it's far more work to do it that way, the data would be less reliable--a Liberal lawn sign is a pretty reliable indicator, Facebook and Twitter posts are less obvious and I doubt a computer could do the necessary contextual analysis, the whiz kid would have to hack in to everybody's profile and select those who've listed their preference--, it'd be pretty tough for one person to do it across multiple constituencies, and it wouldn't have been traced to an Edmonton call centre whose CEO admits it was his systems that were used to do it. I'd say that explanation has a non-zero but vanishingly small probability.
 
petros
#105
It's up to 30+ ridings now.
 
Goober
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's up to 30+ ridings now.

From what I understand a Party - or the 2nd place candidate can go to court on close races - one I believe a Con won by 30 votes - and petition based upon evidence - to have the election overturned. Now we wait for just one person to bring this to court.

The the real shinola will then just begin to hit the fan.

Public case- Journalist galore - News at 11 - Why heads will roll, asses will be burned and that is just the start.

Under the Elections Act - Civil penalties can be applied as can Jail Terms. Now it will be much more interesting when some high powered names come out. Denial in the press, but when they go to court, Oh Oh, different place buckey, much different.

Ah the drama is just starting. There will be a mass scramble to protect certain persons and others, well they are going down with the ship.
 
Tonington
#107
How long I wonder until the owner of the account at Racknine is identified? Things will start rolling after that.
 
Goober
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

How long I wonder until the owner of the account at Racknine is identified? Things will start rolling after that.

One phone was traced to a disposable cell in Montreal - Others may have gone thru Dakota in the US - then it gets tricky.
 
Tonington
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

One phone was traced to a disposable cell in Montreal - Others may have gone thru Dakota in the US - then it gets tricky.

Yes, but the account that the calls were made on behalf of by Racknine must have a person or organization to bill for services. That leaves a trail.
 
Goober
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Yes, but the account that the calls were made on behalf of by Racknine must have a person or organization to bill for services. That leaves a trail.

If it is in the US then I understand it can be quite difficult.
 
Tonington
#111
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

If it is in the US then I understand it can be quite difficult.

Well, the owner is on record saying he knows who the account belongs to:
Robocalls contributed to Liberals
Using telephone billing records and Racknine server logs, Elections Canada investigators identified the Racknine account holder who sent out the calls.

Matt Meier, owner of Racknine, said he was unaware one of his customers was involved in the calls until contacted by Elections Canada in November.

“We couldn’t possibly have known that it was Racknine that was the initiator of the fake calls,” he said. “I had no idea what the content of the calls were.”

The company does not monitor outgoing calls made by customers through the automated service, Meier said. He estimates 10 million or more phone calls from about 200 accounts went out during the campaign.

Meier and his company are co-operating fully with the probe, he said.

He said he knows whose account was used for the calls, but could not reveal the owner because of client confidentiality and concerns about interfering with the investigation. He said it was someone “down East” — meaning Ontario or Quebec.
 
JLM
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Yes, but the account that the calls were made on behalf of by Racknine must have a person or organization to bill for services. That leaves a trail.

How about John Doe paying cash up front? If I was into nefarious activities and had money that is what I'd do!
 
Goober
#113
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

How about John Doe paying cash up front? If I was into nefarious activities and had money that is what I'd do!

We are talking at least 100 K - 18 ridings confirm they received calls - live from staffers - Oh people will talk - The RCMP makes an offer - we can charge you and the Crown asks for jail time - Ain't no judge gonna turn that down. Hell to pay. Messing with the basics of an election - Brings the whole process into disrepute. Oh I can see the Crown now - what a tale he/she will weave of the attacks on the most important right we have - The Vote.
Why if televised the Crown Prosecutor may even get an Oscar
Oh yes, I see slammer time a comin for some.
 
JLM
#114
Has Boob Rae been ruled out as a suspect? He seems to be making as much noise as anyone!
 
Tonington
#115
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Has Boob Rae been ruled out as a suspect? He seems to be making as much noise as anyone!

Holy crap, got your aluminum foil thinking cap on? Bob Rae orchestrated a campaign to cost Liberals support, to decimate the party, so that Ignatieff would step down, and Rae could take his place, to call on Elections Canada for by-elections, that even if his party won would still have the Liberals in third place?

That's a bit of a stretch... That's almost Truther level of conspiracy.
 
petros
#116
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

From what I understand a Party - or the 2nd place candidate can go to court on close races - one I believe a Con won by 30 votes - and petition based upon evidence - to have the election overturned. Now we wait for just one person to bring this to court

One in MB is already plans to have it overturned.
 
Goober
+1
#117
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Has Boob Rae been ruled out as a suspect? He seems to be making as much noise as anyone!

The Cons won 1 seat by 30 votes - Now if they can get enough Liberals I assume - to state they received calls, got frustrated did not vote and that totals around the 30 mark - if the Judge accepts the evidence he can throw the election results out for that riding.Bingo - By Election - Then the loser - Party appeals to the next level. Prov - Federal courts- Prov Supreme courts - even the SCOC - This is going to haunt Harper for years. All the opposition needs is one seat overturned.

154 seats is a tie in a 308 seat house - Harper has 166.

So in those riding targeted what were the election results - these were all tight ridings going into the election.
 
DaSleeper
#118
How many "chads" are needed????
 
Goober
#119
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

How many "chads" are needed????

Listened to Lowell Green's stand in today - Normal partisan hacks - read Conservatives called in - their main comments wer along the lines of the Liberals as sore losers - Guess they think the law should apply only when???? it serves their own interests.

My opinion as i mentioned is 1 court case overturning an election result. Found a list of riding targeted and some riding were real close.
4. Etobicoke Centre (ON) Cons 21 644 Libs - 21 618 - 26 votes.

We will see a court case.
 
JLM
#120
There is one thing I'm trying to get my head around. Sending voters to the wrong polling station to steal votes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Isn't that about as effective as pulling teeth through the A$$hole?
 

Similar Threads

126
Conservative voters have amnesia!!!
by JonB2004 | Jun 2nd, 2006
no new posts