Conservative 'Robocalls' tricked voters in last election


CDNBear
#361
Yes, circumventing due process is always good.
 
SLM
+1
#362
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Yes, circumventing due process is always good.

Well we do have to hurry up and blame.
 
mentalfloss
+1
#363
Robo-call furor focuses attention on massive Tory database

How much does Stephen Harper’s Conservative Party know about you?

Attention is focusing on the massive database of Canadian voters called the Constituency Information Management System (CIMS), which was created and expanded under Mr. Harper’s leadership of the Conservative Party. Critics of the Tories claim the database must have been used by the as-yet-unknown people behind alleged 2011 campaign calls aimed at annoying and misleading opposition party supporters.


What is it?

The CIMS is a massive database with information on millions of Canadians. It was started from scratch after the Canadian Alliance and the federal Tories merged to form the Conservative Party of Canada in 2003. All parties use databases to track supporters, but the Conservatives are considered to have the largest and most effective. The CIMS measures the degree to which individuals support the Conservative Party and includes data on whether they are a member, when and how much they’ve contributed, what policy issues they are interested in, whether they will volunteer and whether they will take a lawn sign. The individual entries can be matched with census data that would show information about their neighbourhood, such as average income, age and ethnic profile.


Where does the information come from?


At its core, the database builds on names and addresses from the Elections Canada voters’ list and numbers from the phone book. Then, details are added. Much of the subjective information in the database comes from years of work by a Toronto-based telemarketing company called Responsive Marketing Group. The company does live phone calls on contract for the Conservatives to identify potential supporters and their priorities. Other data come from phone calls and door knocking by local party volunteers. How Canadians respond to party flyers and brochures will also affect what’s reported in the database. While parties could purchase consumer data about the spending habits of specific neighbourhoods, Mr. Flanagan says that information was never added to the database when he was with the party.


How is it used?


The main reason for the database is for GOTV – what parties refer to as “Get Out The Vote” efforts. Once supporters are identified, parties can offer rides to the polls or make phone calls reminding them to vote. But CIMS is also behind the crowds of Tory supporters who pop up on short notice to Mr. Harper’s public events and announcements. Only strong Tory supporters are invited. Also, the Conservatives are the most successful fundraisers and CIMS is a big part of that.


Could it be connected to voter-suppression allegations?


When the main purpose of a database is to identify supporters and get them to vote, it stands to reason that lists of non-supporters could be used to launch tactics to dissuade them from voting. High-level Conservatives acknowledge that may be possible, but are adamant that voter suppression was not condoned and would not be worth the political risk. The database was designed so that local campaigns could access and update the data for their riding, but not others. The national party can access the entire database. Mr. Flanagan said there is a middle level of access that applies to regional campaign managers who can access a group of ridings.


Robo-call furor focuses attention on massive Tory database - The Globe and Mail
 
CDNBear
+4
#364
LOL, out comes the nutter mud.

Help fling it little man, fling it!!!
 
mentalfloss
#365
Here's a pretty good video from CBC power and politics where all three parties pretty much duke it out. It even has the forum fave Pat Martin.

I'll let you guys decide who looks disingenuous and who looks sincere.

MPs on robocall investigation on MSN Video (external - login to view)
 
damngrumpy
+1
#366
There will be increasing pressure on Elections Canada to step up to the plate here.
The problem is we have had these rules for decades and no one seriously abused
them until now and the Elections Canada people got free skating for decades and
now they are about to earn their money. If this is not dealt with several serious things
could come out of it.

1 The last remaining vestige of trust in the electoral system will die
2 More and more infractions will happen as there will be no teeth in the legislation
3 The threat to fair and democratic elections will raise the profile of deceit that has
been going on in smaller ways for a long time.
4 We will see others use the same methods as the conservatives and thus the system
resemble Mexico before long and we will need UN inspectors to conduct a vote.

This needs to be addressed and the parties responsible must be prosecuted to the
full extent of the law. Tracing the outlets back in not good enough there must be serious
penalties. Dirty tricks is a measure of politics but outright breaches of the law, Federal
Law I might add cannot be tolerated and should not be tolerated.
It is time for the party or parties to come clean. Who was it Buddha who once said there
are three things that cannot be hidden. The Sun, The Moon and the Truth.
It is now time for the truth to emerge.
 
CDNBear
+2
#367
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Here's a pretty good video from CBC power and politics where all three parties pretty much duke it out. It even has the forum fave Pat Martin.

I'll let you guys decide who looks disingenuous and who looks sincere.

MPs on robocall investigation on MSN Video (external - login to view)

I'm 3:55 in, and it sure isn't Easter, or Martin.

Martin, "Why don't you join us in a call for a nation wide investigation...?"

Ummm, did he miss the RCMP and Elections Canada investigation?

Easter, "In the in and out scandal, the Conservative Party, pleaded guilty to election fraud..."

Ummm, no, they plead guilty to over spending, not election fraud.

But hey, it's OK Fuzzy, you have poo to help fling.

if you have any poo fling it now - YouTube

 
JLM
#368
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

There will be increasing pressure on Elections Canada to step up to the plate here.
The problem is we have had these rules for decades and no one seriously abused
them until now and the Elections Canada people got free skating for decades and
now they are about to earn their money. If this is not dealt with several serious things
could come out of it.

1 The last remaining vestige of trust in the electoral system will die
2 More and more infractions will happen as there will be no teeth in the legislation
3 The threat to fair and democratic elections will raise the profile of deceit that has
been going on in smaller ways for a long time.
4 We will see others use the same methods as the conservatives and thus the system
resemble Mexico before long and we will need UN inspectors to conduct a vote.

This needs to be addressed and the parties responsible must be prosecuted to the
full extent of the law. Tracing the outlets back in not good enough there must be serious
penalties. Dirty tricks is a measure of politics but outright breaches of the law, Federal
Law I might add cannot be tolerated and should not be tolerated.
It is time for the party or parties to come clean. Who was it Buddha who once said there
are three things that cannot be hidden. The Sun, The Moon and the Truth.
It is now time for the truth to emerge.

Maybe Harper knew something when he embarked on building all those new prisons, but it would be really ironic if he ends up occupying one the bunks. LOL Nonetheless by the size of this monster I would say there are quite a few involved. Bernie Madoff got 150 years, so I think the ring leader of this skulduggery qualifies for 149.
 
mentalfloss
#369
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I'm 3:55 in, and it sure isn't Easter, or Martin.

Martin, "Why don't you join us in a call for a nation wide investigation...?"

Ummm, did he miss the RCMP and Elections Canada investigation?

Easter, "In the in and out scandal, the Conservative Party, pleaded guilty to election fraud..."

Ummm, no, they plead guilty to over spending, not election fraud.

But hey, it's OK Fuzzy, you have poo to help fling.

if you have any poo fling it now - YouTube

I don't disagree with the hair splitting you've brought forward.

But somehow you've decided not to comment on the Conservative accusations blaming the Liberals for being primarily responsible, and the fact that it is the Conservatives that are under the greatest scrutiny right now.

I'm just commenting on the main discourse right now, which puts the CPC under scrutiny more than the other parties.

Del Mastro was called on his assumption that the Liberals used a U.S. company and that was not the case.

MPs on Liberal robocalls on MSN Video (external - login to view)

Also, the Conservatives said in the house that parties using U.S. companies are suspect, but CBC actually found the that the Conservatives used a Washington-based company on the National.

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvMaiNX2ngBm7BC--QCaR

Last edited by mentalfloss; Mar 3rd, 2012 at 03:08 PM..
 
CDNBear
#370
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

I don't disagree with the hair splitting you've brought forward.

LOL, hair splitting.

Quote:

But somehow you've decided not to comment on the Conservative accusations blaming the Liberals for being primarily responsible, and the fact that it is the Conservatives that are under investigation from Elections Canada.

Harassing phone calls are a separate issue from the accusations of election fraud, currently being investigated by Elections Canada.

Quote:

But the only confirmed full investigation by Elections Canada is into the Ontario riding of Guelph, where allegations first surfaced almost 10 months ago.


According to court documents filed in Edmonton, those calls are linked to a disposable cellphone registered under the apparent pseudonym "Pierre Poutine."


The documents show the Elections Canada investigator is looking at possible ties between people who worked on the local Conservative campaign and the phone calls.
jessica.murphy@sunmedia.ca (external - login to view)

Quote:

I'm just commenting on the main discourse right now, which puts the CPC under scrutiny more than the other parties.

Exactly, lol. Despite...

Quote:

According to court documents filed in Edmonton, those calls are linked to a disposable cellphone registered under the apparent pseudonym "Pierre Poutine."


The documents show the Elections Canada investigator is looking at possible ties between people who worked on the local Conservative campaign and the phone calls.
jessica.murphy@sunmedia.ca (external - login to view)

There's no evidence (<<< You should look that word up Jimmy) the CPC is culpable yet. Unless we listen to you and Jimmy, and many of the other Usual Suspects.

Quote:

Del Mastro was called on his assumption that the Liberals used a U.S. company and that was not the case.

Also, the Conservatives said in the house that parties using U.S. companies are suspect, but CBC actually found the that the Conservatives used a Washington-based company on the National.

A mistake the CPC should walk away from, for now. But I'd still like to see the LPC's full disclosure.

 
mentalfloss
+1
#371
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

There's no evidence (<<< You should look that word up Jimmy) the CPC is culpable yet. Unless we listen to you and Jimmy, and many of the other Usual Suspects.

Of course there's no direct evidence. I've told you 3x now that there's no smoking gun linking this to the CPC.

I posted that in the first page of this thread.

But that doesn't mean we can't talk about these stories that are about the Robocalls in Conservative ridings and the stories that are related to Conservatives just as I have no problem with you talking about Pat Martin being sued.

So, in conclusion - you're accusing me of something I don't disagree with you about.

I have no idea why you would do that.
 
Spade
+1
#372
Conservative MPs used U.S.-based telemarketers - Politics - CBC News
 
mentalfloss
#373
The prime minister and his parliamentary secretary, Peterborough MP Dean Del Mastro, claimed in the Commons that the Liberals were the only party that used American calling firms.

“We’ve done some checking,” the PM said, and “we’ve only found that it was the Liberal Party that did source its phone calls from the United States.”

But documents show 14 Conservative campaigns enlisted the telephone services of an Ohio company called Front Porch Strategies.


Yea, this is not confidence-building stuff, that's for sure.
 
Spade
+4
#374
If any good comes out of any of this, it is closer scrutiny of the use of call centres by Elections Canada. Canadians must have confidence in the electoral process. We don't want foreign observers mocking our democracy.
 
CDNBear
+1
#375
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Of course there's no direct evidence. I've told you 3x now that there's no smoking gun linking this to the CPC.

I posted that in the first page of this thread.

You can say that until the cows come home, your commentary tells a completely different tale (external - login to view).

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

So, in conclusion - you're accusing me of something I don't disagree with you about.

That's good, admission is always the first step on the way to recovery. With a little work, maybe one day you won't be a partisan hack, pretending to be objective.
 
mentalfloss
#376
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That's good, admission is always the first step on the way to recovery. With a little work, maybe one day you won't be a partisan hack, pretending to be objective.

Whatever. I told you this in the last page as well and still you persist in jumping on me with your fecal ridden paws, accusing me of flinging poo.

Not my problem, brah.
 
CDNBear
+2
#377
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Whatever. I told you this in the last page as well and still you persist in jumping on me with your fecal ridden paws, accusing me of flinging poo.

My paws only have crap on them, because I've been walking over your posts.

Quote:

Not my problem, brah.

You aren't my "brah" even in the most limited sense. You lack the skill, fortitude and objectivity.
 
DaSleeper
+1
#378
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

You can say that until the cows come home, your commentary tells a completely different tale (external - login to view).

That's good, admission is always the first step on the way to recovery. With a little work, maybe one day you won't be a partisan hack, pretending to be objective.

May be a disclaimer starting with "For the record"??

Naahh... wouldn't work....already being used...
 
CDNBear
+1
#379
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

May be a disclaimer starting with "For the record"??

Naahh... wouldn't work....already being used...

Being in the same club, maybe they could share?
 
mentalfloss
#380
How about no comment on this one so I don't get labelled a partisan hack by a Pooh Bear.

RackNine defamation lawsuit an attempt to ‘silence critics,’ NDP MP Pat Martin says


New Democratic Party MP Pat Martin does not think much of the $5-million defamation lawsuit filed against him and the NDP by RackNine, the company at the centre of the robocall scandal.

Martin said Friday evening that he suspects the lawsuit has a purpose other than simply seeking damages.

In an email to Postmedia News, Martin said RackNine “pulled the trigger on this lawsuit without even waiting for our response to their original letter of complaint which leads me to believe this is more a … suit to silence critics than any legitimate grievance about damages to reputation.

“There’s a strong public interest in defending the integrity of our democratic institutions,” Martin said in the email. “As an MP, I think it’s my job to defend the right of Canadians to cast their ballot in a fair election, free of interference.”

Robocall scandal: NDP MP Pat Martin says $5M RackNine defamation lawsuit an attempt to 'silence critics' | News | National Post
 
Cannuck
-1
#381
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Really? I have that kind of power over you?

None whatsoever. It's called being courteous. It's the very least I can do given that you are (by your own words) disadvantaged and I am a Canadian.
 
Locutus
+1
#382
Rex Murphy: Not much of a robo-scandal
 
Goober
#383
SIZE="4"]
TORIES GET DESPERATE - [/SIZE]
MP says Guelph robocalls a mystery to Tories - Politics - CBC News

A Tory MP who serves as the prime minister's point-person on allegations of fraudulent calls to voters during the last federal election says his party doesn't know whether a former staffer who resigned last week had anything to do with the so-called "robocalls."

The Conservatives accepted the resignation of Michael Sona amid reports that Elections Canada was investigating allegations of robocalls misleading voters about polling station changes in the riding of Guelph leading up to last May's election.

We don't know what happened in Guelph. We don't have any information about what happened in Guelph. But what we can say is that the allegations that have come forward and the evidence that we've seen which is all public — we have no more information than anyone else on this — is troubling."

Del Mastro's comments about Sona contradict remarks made by a Conservative minister two days after the aide's resignation.

In an interview with CBC News last Sunday, Defence Minister Peter Mackay said: "I think they have identified the individual involved in this."

Sona, a staffer who worked in the office of Conservative MP Eve Adams until Feb. 24, also worked for Conservative candidate Marty Burke in the riding of Guelph during the last campaign.

A few days after Mackay's comments, Sona said he had quit because rumours that he was involved with the robocalls were preventing him from doing his job as a staffer, but added that he hoped the "real guilty party" would be apprehended.

To date, there has been no public evidence to show that he was involved with the robocalls.
Last edited by Goober; Mar 3rd, 2012 at 07:13 PM..
 
relic
#384
I guess I'm "usual suspect # ?" Because I {A}think del mastro is a moron , and is doing his boss no good. {B}think the torys are guilty .People have been put in prison with as much or less circumstantial evidence.Looking at heir record,of underhanded,dishonest,slimy if not illeagle actions is good enough for me.The way they've handled their "defense"doesn't help their cause.
Call me what you like,you'll find this mess will turn out torys guilty,I'll also be surprised if any action is taken,more than some lacky going down for the party.
 
Goober
#385
Quote: Originally Posted by relicView Post

I guess I'm "usual suspect # ?" Because I {A}think del mastro is a moron , and is doing his boss no good. {B}think the torys are guilty .People have been put in prison with as much or less circumstantial evidence.Looking at heir record,of underhanded,dishonest,slimy if not illeagle actions is good enough for me.The way they've handled their "defense"doesn't help their cause.
Call me what you like,you'll find this mess will turn out torys guilty,I'll also be surprised if any action is taken,more than some lacky going down for the party.

Between the RCMP who brought down a Liberal govt - To Elections Canada that is not a Conservative fan group after their In - Out BS - The facts will come out. The pressure is on.
 
DurkaDurka
#386
Canadian politics as its best, do we really expect anything but?
 
MHz
#387
Somebody should poll the 31,000 (or actual number that didn't vote) and see if that would have changed anything. Seems like too high a number to be a mistake.

CANADIAN ELECTIONS: Elections Canada confirms over 31,000 complaints in RoboCall Scandal : Federal Jack (external - login to view)
 
DurkaDurka
+2
#388
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Somebody should poll the 31,000 (or actual number that didn't vote) and see if that would have changed anything. Seems like too high a number to be a mistake.

CANADIAN ELECTIONS: Elections Canada confirms over 31,000 complaints in RoboCall Scandal : Federal Jack (external - login to view)

Can I robocall you with a sexy voice?
 
MHz
#389
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Canadian politics as its best, do we really expect anything but?

Do you mean that 'they' mess up on the simplest deceptions going? Why it's almost like Harper wanted to be caught, ..... A politician caught doing 'tricks' is like a pregnant prostitute, neither one is very good at their job.
 
DurkaDurka
#390
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Do you mean that 'they' mess up on the simplest deceptions going? Why it's almost like Harper wanted to be caught, ..... A politician caught doing 'tricks' is like a pregnant prostitute, neither one is very good at their job.

I mean by, "power corrupts". it's cyclical.
 

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