The Christian Lie :)

mentalfloss

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ANYONE who commits mass murder in the name of Christianity is simply NOT Christian, as the act itself shows their deviance from the theology.


Right-wing extremist or Christian terrorist?

The mass murders in Oslo have raised a host of agonizing questions, but few have such an ancient lineage and contemporary resonance as whether Anders Behring Breivik, the right-wing extremist behind the attacks that killed 76 Norwegians on July 22, is a Christian.

Breivik has claimed in various forums that he is a Christian but most explicitly and in greatest detail in the 1,500-page manifesto he compiled over several months and posted on the Internet.

"At the age of 15 I chose to be baptized and confirmed in the Norwegian State Church," the 32-year-old Breivik wrote. "I consider myself to be 100 percent Chris tian." But he also fiercely disagrees with the politics of most Protestant churches and the Roman Catholic Church.

"Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I'm not an excessively religious man," he writes. "I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe."

Breivik fashions himself a "cultural Christian" and a modern-day crusader in a resurrected order of the medieval Knights Templar, riding out to do battle against squishy "multiculturalism" and the onslaught of "Islamization"—and to suffer the glory of Christian martyrdom in the process.

Mark Juergensmeyer, author of Terror in the Mind of God, noted close parallels between Breivik and Timothy McVeigh, the antigovernment radical behind the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. "If [Osama] bin Laden is a Muslim terrorist, Breivik and McVeigh are surely Christian ones," Juergensmeyer, a professor of sociology at the University of California, Santa Barbara, wrote on the blog Religion Dispatches.

Not surprisingly, conservative pundits who share some of Breivik's views and also consider themselves Christians quickly sought to distance themselves from Breivik by declaring, as Bill O'Reilly did on Fox News, that "Breivik is not a Christian."

"That's impossible," O'Reilly said July 26. "No one believing in Jesus commits mass murder. The man might have called himself a Christian on the Net, but he is certainly not of that faith." O'Reilly blamed the "liberal media" for "pushing the Christian angle" in order to demean Christians like himself.

O'Reilly's point was taken up by any number of commentators and religion scholars.

Mathew N. Schmalz, a professor of religious studies at the College of the Holy Cross, wrote in a Washington Post column that Breivik's vision "is a Christianity without Christ" because the attacker rejects a personal relationship with Jesus.

Writing in the Guardian, Andrew Brown reasoned that "even in his saner moments [Breivik's] ideology had nothing to do with Christianity but was based on an atavistic horror of Muslims and a loathing of 'Marxists,' by which he meant anyone to the left of Genghis Khan."

Arne H. Fjeldstad, a longtime Norwegian journalist and Lutheran minister of the Church of Norway, wrote a lengthy analysis of Breivik's references to Christianity and also concluded that "his view is framed entirely by politics, with strong political and cultural opinions, which also include religious views." Fjeldstad added: "Breivik's religious position is rather distant from any Christian faith commitment."

Others pushed back against such a carefully cordoned-off interpretation of Breivik's faith, or of Christianity itself. "If he did what he has alleged to have done, Anders Breivik is a Christian terrorist," Boston Univer sity religion scholar Stephen Prothero wrote on CNN.com.

"Yes, he twisted the Christian tradition in directions most Christians would not countenance. But he rooted his hate and his terrorism in Christian thought and Christian history, particularly the history of the medieval Crusades against Muslims, and current efforts to renew that clash," said Prothero. "So Christians have a responsibility to speak out forcefully against him, and to look hard at the resources in the Christian tradition that can be used to such murderous ends."

Andrew Sullivan, a Catholic, also expounded on that point, writing that "it is obvious that Christians can commit murder, assault, etc. They do so every day. Because, as Christian orthodoxy tells us, we are all sinners.

"To say that no Christian can ever commit murder is a sophist's piffle. . . . Do the countless criminals who have gone to church or believe in Jesus immediately not count as Christians the minute they commit the crime? Of course not."

Sullivan said O'Reilly's argument "is complete heresy in terms of the most basic Christian orthodoxy." And Sullivan is right, though for some 2,000 years Christians have continually battled fiercely over who is a "real" Christian and who is not, or who is a "good" Christian and who is a "bad" Christian.

Many argue today that President Obama, for example, can't be a true Christian despite his profession of faith because of the liberal policies he proposes. Or that Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, a Tea Party favorite, can't be a real Catholic because he embraces the atheistic libertarianism of Ayn Rand in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Anders Breivik may be a bad Christian, perhaps the worst one can imagine, as well as a confused man who cherry-picked from scripture and history to justify his unchristian form of Christianity. But count less numbers of religion experts have observed that proof-texting the Bible and using faith to rationalize one's favorite political and cultural views is something that most believers—Jewish, Muslim and Christian—are guilty of at one time or another. So kicking Breivik out of Christianity in the end might be an ominous sign for all Christians.


http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2011-07/anders-breivik-christian-terrorist
 

Colpy

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First of all...........even if I accepted this as an act of Christian terrorism (which I most emphatically DO NOT)......... it is one.

Only 17,709 to go to catch up with the "Religion of Peace"

That since 2001.

Now.........From the Norwegian Monster himself...

“Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe. If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian.”
No matter WHAT he thinks, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ IS Christianity......without that, you ARE NOT Christian.

Now, go find me Muslim terrorists and ask if they believe Allah is a personal force in their lives.
 

mentalfloss

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No matter WHAT he thinks, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ IS Christianity......without that, you ARE NOT Christian.

My parents are Catholic and they do not have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Are you saying they're not Christians?
 

Colpy

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Reallllllly.

So, do you believe they will go to purgatory or hell instead of heaven?

Do I look like God to you?????

I don't judge.....it is simply that if they do not have a belief in the Christian God, then they are not Christians..........

That seems kind of obvious......
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Do I look like God to you?????

I don't judge.....it is simply that if they do not have a belief in the Christian God, then they are not Christians..........

That seems kind of obvious......

No, they do believe in God. They just don't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

The guy died a long time ago.
 
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Colpy

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No, they do believe in God. They just don't have a personal relationship with Jesus.

The guy died a long time ago.

I think you misunderstand.

Damn, I HATE discussing theology.

If they are if they believe the scriptures, if they have accepted that Jesus Christ died for them, if they have accepted Jesus Christ as God.........then they have a personal relationship. One of gratitude, one of worship.

If not, they are not Christians. They may be Deists, or agnostics, or any one of a hundred other perfectly acceptable beliefs....

But they are kidding themselves if they call themselves "Christian" without meeting the basic requirements

There is no half-way.

You can not be a Christian terrorist without being Christian. And being Christian precludes being a terrorist.

Not so with Islam.
 

MHz

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Damn, I HATE discussing theology.
....if they have accepted Jesus Christ as God.........then they have a personal relationship. .....
....... You can not be a Christian terrorist without being Christian. And being Christian precludes being a terrorist.......

Not so with Islam.
Then you should stay off ALL religious threads, not just the Christian ones.
Jesus is not God that is why there are verses like the one below.
I would suggest reading the 7 letters in Revelation to show yourself that there are two kinds of people in "Church", ones that God approves of and others that He does not.
No such animal as a 'Christian terrorist', ... however there are many false Christian terrorists that operate with impunity to even being confronted.

Joh.20:17
Jesus saith unto her,
Touch me not;
for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren,
and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father,
and your Father;
and to my God,
and your God.

Believing in the existence of God counts for NOTHING!

SATAN believes in God, he saw God face to face!
Apparentlyhe missed the part about going to the lake if you sinned after seeing God's face in person
 

In Between Man

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How the fack would you know? Seriously, it's your brand of Christianity that gives it a bad name.

"My brand of Christianity"? What I profess lines up with the bible, which is the infallible, inerrant word of God.

Muslims believe in God, creator of the universe. Can you give me any theological evidence that says Christians and Muslims are BOTH going to heaven?

And besides, I already told you, the devil has no doubts about God's existence. Is he going to be allowed to enter heaven one day?

Jesus replied: "I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. NO ONE comes to the father EXCEPT THROUGH ME." (John 14:6)

Jesus is not God

You and I CANNOT call ourselves brothers in Christ.

5 things we must agree on to call ourselves brothers:

1) Jesus was God. The promised Messiah who fulfilled the prophecies of God himself breaking into the world.

2) Jesus was born from a virgin. Scientists can now clone an animal without a sexual act. If man can do it, don't doubt for a second that God who created the entire universe could!

3) Jesus died on the cross. He received our punishment for our sins.

4) Jesus was resurrected from death and hell. He's alive today!

5) Jesus is coming back, just like he said he would.
 
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Goober

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First of all...........even if I accepted this as an act of Christian terrorism (which I most emphatically DO NOT)......... it is one.

Only 17,709 to go to catch up with the "Religion of Peace"

That since 2001.

Now.........From the Norwegian Monster himself...

No matter WHAT he thinks, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ IS Christianity......without that, you ARE NOT Christian.

Now, go find me Muslim terrorists and ask if they believe Allah is a personal force in their lives.

And so end this thread on Oslo Wacko as a Christian Fundamentalist wacko - He is more Aryan Nations - Nazi - than Christian.


Quote
“Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe. If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian.”

The above make him think he is Christian - So no relationship - So not a Christian - Pretty straight forward i would say.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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If they are if they believe the scriptures, if they have accepted that Jesus Christ died for them, if they have accepted Jesus Christ as God.........then they have a personal relationship. One of gratitude, one of worship.

I asked them if they believe Jesus Christ died for them and if they accept Jesus Christ as God.

They said yes.

I asked them if they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ/God.

They said no.
 

Colpy

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I asked them if they believe Jesus Christ died for them and if they accept Jesus Christ as God.

They said yes.

I asked them if they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ/God.

They said no.

Then they are confused.

As is, if they were honest about it, practically anyone discussing theology.

See what you started???? LOL

BTW, do they have suicide belts? Plans to shoot up a mall?? Do they approve of such actions???

No??

Then yeah, they might be Christians.

Damn Catholics. (just kidding)
 

Dexter Sinister

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Every time somebody claiming to be a Christian and motivated by Christian beliefs does something horrible, other Christians are quick to disavow the connection. I've heard that lame defense too many times, something horrible is done in the name of Christianity and other Christians dismiss it as not done by real Christians, who of course would never do such a thing. All the wars that raged across Europe for centuries, the destruction of aboriginal cultures around the world by colonizing European powers, the many crusades against Islam and the several mass murders of Jews on the way, the molestation of children by people in religious orders, slavery and the slave trade.... nope, none of it done by real Christians.

Nitpicking redefinitions of who is and is not a Christian don't get the church or its teachings off the hook. If people like bin Laden and the 9/11 hijackers are Muslim terrorists, Breivik is a Christian terrorist, by any reasonable definition of the terms. Admit it and deal with it, anything else is simply a denial of any responsibility by the faith community.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Then they are confused.

As is, if they were honest about it, practically anyone discussing theology.

See what you started???? LOL

BTW, do they have suicide belts? Plans to shoot up a mall?? Do they approve of such actions???

No??

Then yeah, they might be Christians.

Damn Catholics. (just kidding)

Douggie's words have never been truer, my friend.

Doug Stanhope "You make your own christianity" - YouTube
 
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MHz

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It wouldn't bother me to see any/all Church Organizations pay a heavy price in money and have their door closed permanently as they really are a blight on society. That being said, I can't find any verse or passage that gave them the authority to do what they have done over the centuries right up unto today with their fear-mongering and other assorted mis-deeds that go unpunished. That being said, the ones in charge of doing such clean-ups are part of the same problem, no wonder the 'clean-up' just never seems to happen.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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Every time somebody claiming to be a Christian and motivated by Christian beliefs does something horrible, other Christians are quick to disavow the connection. I've heard that lame defense too many times, something horrible is done in the name of Christianity and other Christians dismiss it as not done by real Christians, who of course would never do such a thing. All the wars that raged across Europe for centuries, the destruction of aboriginal cultures around the world by colonizing European powers, the many crusades against Islam and the several mass murders of Jews on the way, the molestation of children by people in religious orders, slavery and the slave trade.... nope, none of it done by real Christians.

Nitpicking redefinitions of who is and is not a Christian don't get the church or its teachings off the hook. If people like bin Laden and the 9/11 hijackers are Muslim terrorists, Breivik is a Christian terrorist, by any reasonable definition of the terms. Admit it and deal with it, anything else is simply a denial of any responsibility by the faith community.

I am wondering how many Moslem's deny that the terrorist bombers are Muslems or true Muslems? I am sure there are some but that is not the line of defence I am reading on the many threads on this subject here.

I think there are bad apples as a part of every religion and/or non-religion. Its a part of human nature. But I think it seems to be much more pronounced, for whatever reason, in the Moslem community. Maybe they are just better at it. *shrug*

I don't think you will find any Christian or Christian organization commending this attack. Usually is one or 2 if its a Molslem terrorist attack.

My 2 cents.