May 15th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Thank you for posting this. These battle the Canadians fought are anything but forgotten. Not much has been said but that is changing, it seems my generation is very interested in WW2.
I have been to almost every Rememberance day since I was a child, I first played at the cenotaph when I was 8 y/o. I remember the vets in my small community used to march down the street in company strength, last year there was only one. The crowds have started to return and last year was the largest I have seen since the 70's.
I would like to share a similar story about the British Columbia Regiment, the Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles. Their first day of battle was a disaster, it will take some time to put it together but will post it here if anybody is interested.
Thank you for posting this. These battle the Canadians fought are anything but forgotten. Not much has been said but that is changing, it seems my generation is very interested in WW2.
I have been to almost every Rememberance day since I was a child, I first played at the cenotaph when I was 8 y/o. I remember the vets in my small community used to march down the street in company strength, last year there was only one. The crowds have started to return and last year was the largest I have seen since the 70's.
I would like to share a similar story about the British Columbia Regiment, the Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles. Their first day of battle was a disaster, it will take some time to put it together but will post it here if anybody is interested.
Council Member
Posts: 2,299 
May 15th, 2008, 11:45 AM
[quote=Jersay;710272]Now this is an amazing battle that has been mostly forgotten in Canadian history.
During the assault on Verrierres Ridge in July 1944, 325 men left the start line and only 15 made it back to friendly lines, the others being killed or wounded by well entrenched Waffen SS soldiers and tanks.The Waffen ss were shocked at these Canadian efforts as the soliders had no tanks,artillary cover.They marched with there guns to their breasts and up-right like in a parade.Soldiers that have had 4-5 years of experience in Russia were amazed as no man took cover,for the Black Watch were never taught the word retreat. Note they ordered there men not to shoot (those who are mostly wounded) as the fled back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bla...29_of_C anada
My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!
[quote=Jersay;710272]Now this is an amazing battle that has been mostly forgotten in Canadian history.
During the assault on Verrierres Ridge in July 1944, 325 men left the start line and only 15 made it back to friendly lines, the others being killed or wounded by well entrenched Waffen SS soldiers and tanks.The Waffen ss were shocked at these Canadian efforts as the soliders had no tanks,artillary cover.They marched with there guns to their breasts and up-right like in a parade.Soldiers that have had 4-5 years of experience in Russia were amazed as no man took cover,for the Black Watch were never taught the word retreat. Note they ordered there men not to shoot (those who are mostly wounded) as the fled back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bla...29_of_C anada
My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!
May 17th, 2008, 08:50 PM
My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys![/quote]
The fact that your brother was 17 in 1943 and he joined the Waffen SS makes him a likely candidate for the 12 SS Hitler Jugend. This elite German division was key in holding the allies back in Normandy. They like all other Waffen SS were labelled fanatics and worse. After much research and thought, I think the labels are undeserved for the most part. These young men were chosen for there personal qualities and received some of the best training and equipment of any of the German divisions.
"...to create a new division consisting exclusively of volunteers from the Hitler Youth born in the year 1926. The Division was to be a symbol of the willingness of the German youth to sacrifice itself and of it's will to achieve total victory." Hubert Meyer, History of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend"
Do you have any photos of your Bruder at this time?
My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys![/quote]
The fact that your brother was 17 in 1943 and he joined the Waffen SS makes him a likely candidate for the 12 SS Hitler Jugend. This elite German division was key in holding the allies back in Normandy. They like all other Waffen SS were labelled fanatics and worse. After much research and thought, I think the labels are undeserved for the most part. These young men were chosen for there personal qualities and received some of the best training and equipment of any of the German divisions.
"...to create a new division consisting exclusively of volunteers from the Hitler Youth born in the year 1926. The Division was to be a symbol of the willingness of the German youth to sacrifice itself and of it's will to achieve total victory." Hubert Meyer, History of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend"
Do you have any photos of your Bruder at this time?
Council Member
Posts: 2,299
May 17th, 2008, 11:11 PM
Unfortunately, I don't recall what his division was called, but it was a Panzerdivision, and he was a Funker. At the end of the war he was in Hungary, and they had no Sprit!! They used horses to pull their equipment. Three times they were chased by the Russians around the Plattensee, when finally a US tanker-truck arrived and brought them Sprit, and helped them to escape to the West. What had happened was that their commander had a cousin on the American side, whom he had asked for help.
Just this winter I read two books from Leon Degrelle. You heard about him? He fought on the East front, just like my oldest brother, also in the SS.
Quoting alypipes
The fact that your brother was 17 in 1943 and he joined the Waffen SS makes him a likely candidate for the 12 SS Hitler Jugend. This elite German division was key in holding the allies back in Normandy. They like all other Waffen SS were labelled fanatics and worse. After much research and thought, I think the labels are undeserved for the most part. These young men were chosen for there personal qualities and received some of the best training and equipment of any of the German divisions.
My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!
Quote:
No, not a single one! He left in September 1943 and came back in the fall of 1948. Never once came home "auf Urlaub".
"...to create a new division consisting exclusively of volunteers from the Hitler Youth born in the year 1926. The Division was to be a symbol of the willingness of the German youth to sacrifice itself and of it's will to achieve total victory." Hubert Meyer, History of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend"
Do you have any photos of your Bruder at this time?
Do you have any photos of your Bruder at this time?
Unfortunately, I don't recall what his division was called, but it was a Panzerdivision, and he was a Funker. At the end of the war he was in Hungary, and they had no Sprit!! They used horses to pull their equipment. Three times they were chased by the Russians around the Plattensee, when finally a US tanker-truck arrived and brought them Sprit, and helped them to escape to the West. What had happened was that their commander had a cousin on the American side, whom he had asked for help.
Just this winter I read two books from Leon Degrelle. You heard about him? He fought on the East front, just like my oldest brother, also in the SS.
May 18th, 2008, 11:53 AM
Hi DL
It sounds more and more like your youngest brother was indeed a 12SS man.
After the British and Canadian forces had liberated Caen, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division was one of the 24 German combat divisions, which became encircled in the Falaise pocket. At this time, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division was ordered to hold the German lines on the northern edge of the pocket so that the trapped divisions could escape as best they could. The HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division escaped being encircled as did about 20.000 other Germans - but over 50.000 other German forces were trapped in the Falaise pocket and surrendered to the Allies.
Although the Normandy campaign survivors of the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division fought with just as much determination and dedication as they did a month earlier, in the long run, they were fighting a losing battle. By September of 1944, only 1.500-3.500+ HJ troopers survived in the division. They had lost over 9.000 of their comrades in Normandy and in the Falaise Gap. After the Falaise campaign, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division had also lost nearly all of its armor, much of their equipment and heavy weapons.
In December of 1944, the now re-organized HJ SS Panzer Division participated in the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes forest. After that, the HJ SS Panzer Division was sent to Hungary where it was supposed to assist in recapturing Budapest.
On May 8th, approximately 10.000 survivors of the 12th SS Panzer Division surrendered to the American 65th Infantry Division, 7th Army, near Enns in Austria. One surviving tank belonging to the division also surrendered to the Americans that day.
Hi DL
It sounds more and more like your youngest brother was indeed a 12SS man.
After the British and Canadian forces had liberated Caen, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division was one of the 24 German combat divisions, which became encircled in the Falaise pocket. At this time, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division was ordered to hold the German lines on the northern edge of the pocket so that the trapped divisions could escape as best they could. The HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division escaped being encircled as did about 20.000 other Germans - but over 50.000 other German forces were trapped in the Falaise pocket and surrendered to the Allies.
Although the Normandy campaign survivors of the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division fought with just as much determination and dedication as they did a month earlier, in the long run, they were fighting a losing battle. By September of 1944, only 1.500-3.500+ HJ troopers survived in the division. They had lost over 9.000 of their comrades in Normandy and in the Falaise Gap. After the Falaise campaign, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division had also lost nearly all of its armor, much of their equipment and heavy weapons.
In December of 1944, the now re-organized HJ SS Panzer Division participated in the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes forest. After that, the HJ SS Panzer Division was sent to Hungary where it was supposed to assist in recapturing Budapest.
On May 8th, approximately 10.000 survivors of the 12th SS Panzer Division surrendered to the American 65th Infantry Division, 7th Army, near Enns in Austria. One surviving tank belonging to the division also surrendered to the Americans that day.
May 18th, 2008, 09:45 PM
My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!
Your brother also could have taken part in this battle, the 12SS Panzergrenadier Division was holding the line in Tilly at the time of this battle.
All Canadian troops were referred to by the Germans as TommySS, Tommy of course were the Brits. The Canadians had a strong disliking for SS and 12SS was a marked division by our troops, the tendancy was to not take prisoners.
My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.
The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!
Your brother also could have taken part in this battle, the 12SS Panzergrenadier Division was holding the line in Tilly at the time of this battle.
All Canadian troops were referred to by the Germans as TommySS, Tommy of course were the Brits. The Canadians had a strong disliking for SS and 12SS was a marked division by our troops, the tendancy was to not take prisoners.
Council Member
Posts: 2,299
May 18th, 2008, 10:52 PM
I guess my brother was lucky. He and most of the German soldiers were packed on fields or the so called Rheinwiesen, and left to starve. He was later given the choice of either going to England or France to do labour for war reparations. He chose France and had a relative easy time helping aging farmers work their land with a stubborn ox!!! In the fall of 1948 he was finally let go and came home... he had been gone for 5 years.
You mention the Ardennen... I seem to remember having heard that name in relation to my brother. My sister-in-law is still alive.. I should phone her and see if she knows more details. I was only 10 when the war was over!
We had three enemies... den Iwan, den Tommy und die Amis!!!
I guess my brother was lucky. He and most of the German soldiers were packed on fields or the so called Rheinwiesen, and left to starve. He was later given the choice of either going to England or France to do labour for war reparations. He chose France and had a relative easy time helping aging farmers work their land with a stubborn ox!!! In the fall of 1948 he was finally let go and came home... he had been gone for 5 years.
You mention the Ardennen... I seem to remember having heard that name in relation to my brother. My sister-in-law is still alive.. I should phone her and see if she knows more details. I was only 10 when the war was over!
We had three enemies... den Iwan, den Tommy und die Amis!!!
