The Real Invented Nation, Israeli History Pure Fiction

[darkbeaver]

http://ashraf62.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/in-ancient-egypt-canaan-revisited-without-israel/
In Ancient Egypt, Canaan revisited without Israel

March 17, 2012
“Take Egypt out and the whole structure of the Israelites’ tale would instantly fall.”

Dr. Ashraf Ezzat

Did you know that Egypt is mentioned in the Holy Bible approximately 700 times (Egypt: 595 times, Egyptian(s): 120 times).
Obviously, Egypt must have played a vital role in the history of the Hebrews otherwise it wouldn’t have been such a recurring theme in the Jewish holy book.
Egypt was, and still is, the magnificent overture to the Israelites’ story. Take Egypt out and the whole structure of the Israelites’ tale would instantly fall.
The land of the Nile has been the theater for the Israelites’ epic stories of alleged enslavement, divine retaliation, wandering in the wilderness and finally a breath-taking and logic-defying exit.
But on the other hand, do you know how many times Israel or the Israelites were mentioned in the ancient Egyptian records? … Well, and according to history and the ancient Egyptian meticulous records – get ready for the surprise- once or … maybe none at all.
Now and before I take you on a little journey back in time, around 3000 years ago, I want you to contemplate on this paradoxical ratio 1:700, and try to answer this simple question; what if there was someone who, you were told, talked of you hundreds and hundreds of times, citing places and stories he said had shared with you, only you don’t know who he is or what the hell he is talking about … what do you call that person? … A liar! A deluded person! … or maybe someone who is trying to steal your thunder.
If that is your answer, then we’re having a common ground for my following argument. If not, then, hop on my time machine and let’s visit the ancient Egyptian empire at its zenith.
Once mentioned but never again

King Merneptah Stele - 1208 BC

The only time Israel was mentio

 

[Goober]

In Ancient Egypt, Canaan revisited without Israel « Pyramidion
In Ancient Egypt, Canaan revisited without Israel[/

The Egyptians had an odd habit of rewriting history when a Pharaoh died did they not?

 

[darkbeaver]

They did not. The Israeli debate over Israeli history is very interesting and very revealing, one side supports entirely the invented history even complete with invented artifacts the other can find nothing to support the Historical Israel. It is interesting that the liar often times blames the victim for actions he himself has committed or states he himself has obtained. It used to throw off the investigator. It's long worn out by now. The part of Israel that isn't pure bull**** is pure crime.

 

[gerryh]

The Egyptians had an odd habit of rewriting history when a Pharaoh died did they not?

The thread dies within hours if not replied to. Why give the idiot a forum for his racism and bigotry?

 

[Goober]

They did not. The Israeli debate over Israeli history is very interesting and very revealing, one side supports entirely the invented history even complete with invented artifacts the other can find nothing to support the Historical Israel. It is interesting that the liar often times blames the victim for actions he himself has committed or states he himself has obtained. It used to throw off the investigator. It's long worn out by now. The part of Israel that isn't pure bull**** is pure crime.

Taharqa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sennacherib abandoned the siege and returned home. Thus, Taharqa saved Jerusalem and the Hebrew society from destruction, a pivotal point in world and Hebrew history. The might of Taharqa's military forces was established at Eltekeh, leading to a period of peace in Egypt. During this period of peace and prosperity, the empire flourished. In the sixth year of Taharqa's reign, the prosperity was also aided by abundant rainfall and a large harvest. Taharqa took full advantage of the lull in fighting and abundant harvest. He restored existing temples, built new temples, and built the largest pyramid in the Napatan region. Particularly impressive were his additions to the Temple at Karnak, new temple at Kawa, and temple at Jebel Barkal.[7][8][9][10][11]

The True Story of Moses and the Pharaoh According to Velikovsky
According to the Pentateuch / Torah the Exodus occurred in 1447 B.C. and since Ramses was mentioned. It was assumed that Ramses II was the oppressive Pharaoh of the Exodus. Gigantic monuments of Ramses’s time fortified this view in the eyes of Victorian scholars. It was assumed that the Exodus must have occurred during his time (1279-1213 B.C.). However, there is no historical evidence to support this view. Nor is there any sign of the catastrophic period mention in the Pentateuch. Ramses is also mentioned during the time when Joseph was vizier. But this was hundreds of years before the Exodus. For this reason it has been reasonably assumed that Ramses is merely a generic term and that another Pharaoh was in power at the time. Both Velikovsky and the historian David Rohl in his book “A Testament of Time” have designated the Pharaoh of the Exodus as Dudimose of the 13th Dynasty. It is claimed that Moses is not a Hebrew name but means prince or son in Egyptian. For example, Tutmose, son of Thoth (The Egyptian god); Amenmose, son of Amen (the Egyptian god); Ramose, son of Ra (the Egyptian god) are all Pharaohs. According to the ancient Egyptian Historian Manetho, at the time of Dudimose, Egypt met “The Wrath of God” and signs of a great catastrophe were recently discovered at this period. Also according to Manetho, Egypt fell week in this period and was easily conquered by the Hyksos.


According to the Pentateuch, because the Pharaoh did not release the Israelites from bondage, Egypt suffered a series of ten plagues. These were: 1) Rivers and water sources turned into blood; 2) Frogs 3) Lice; 4) Flies; 5) Disease and death of Livestock; 6) Boils; 7) Hail mixed with fire; 8) Locusts; 9) Darkness; 10) Death of the first born.

An important argument set forth by Velikovsky involves the papyrus of Ipuwer placed into the Leiden Museum in the Netherlands in 1828. This papyrus appears to relate events that occurred in the early ages of ancient Egypt. According to academicians it contains riddles or prophecies, however it openly relates a number of catastrophes that befell Egypt. The Nile turning to blood, the waters being undrinkable, the death of animals, the sky becoming dark, fires, earthquakes, hungry and destitute Egyptians are among these. If Velikovsky is correct then it disproves the contention that there is no trace of the events related in the Pentateuch recorded in Egyptian history.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Not to worry. All nations are really artificial constructs. That is why most so-called "nation states" only came into existence during the last few centuries. For most of human history the most important human unit has been the family, followed by the clan, and then the tribe. People tend to relate best to those related to them by blood. Artificial constructs like nations have to be surrounded by vast amounts of myth and emotion to replace smaller political units. Israel is really no more artificial than many other nation states that exist today, particularly in areas of the world like the Middle East and Africa.

Here are a few of the characteristics of most nation states. It is interesting to see just how many apply to Canada.
1. Common ethnic background
2. Common history
3. Common geography
4. Common language
5. Common culture
6. Common religion
7. Common myths and traditions

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

People are real, languages are real, nations are real. Asia invents religions which are not real. Religions don't like to be burdened with things called facts. They are pre-modern, junk them.

A people based on a religion is quite unusual in history. I'm not sure why people consider Jews or Israel so fascinating.

 

[damngrumpy]

We all know the stories are legend and all of them have their own history.
Only the Celts have the truth everyone knows that. Actually I didn't even
have to look at who submitted this, I just looked for the tone of the material
and I could guess who, not Native stories this weekend either, shame when
the subject material is limited isn't it. Gerry you are right why bother with
this nonsense.

 

[earth_as_one]

The Jews were slaves and merchant class to the Egyptians. Most of ancient Egypt's written record refers to their Gods and rulers. I'm not surprised that Jews are barely mentioned in ancient Egyptian texts. No being mentioned proves that from the Egyptian Pharaoh's viewpoint, Jewish slaves weren't important.

 

[dancing-loon]

The thread dies within hours if not replied to. Why give the idiot a forum for his racism and bigotry?

Well, the thread isn't dead yet, is it?? The idiot is you with no brains whatsoever!

Yuri Avnery wrote an excellent piece just recently about Israel's myths and mentioned this...
"There can no longer be the slightest doubt that the Exodus never happened.
Neither the Exodus, nor the wandering in the desert, nor the conquest of Canaan."

"Without the Exodus story, there would probably be no State of Israel today – and certainly not in Palestine..."

and he writes further...

"There is no need to point out that after a hundred years of frantic archaeological searching by devout Christians and Zionist zealots, not a shred of concrete evidence for the conquest of Canaan has been found (nor that the kingdoms of Saul, David or Salomon ever existed)."

Sit down on your little fanny and read what else he has to say!

Judeofascism.com: Passover brainwashing ceremony designed to instill Jewish fear, loathing, paranoia, resentment and violent hatred of the goyim

 

[Serryah]

Suppose for a moment that the article/blog entry is true.

The Hebrews were never in Egypt as slaves and Exodus never happened.

Just how WOULD that change the course of "Biblical History"? How much would it invalidate the OT of the Bible and the stories that follow it?

How would it affect the claims of Israel today? Christianity?

I'm not saying what is there is truth, but what if...?

 

[Cliffy]

...but what if...?

Atomic Bomb Explosion - YouTube

 

[Serryah]

...but what if...?

Atomic Bomb Explosion - YouTube

Yeeeup.

A massive, collective, WTF $hitstorm.

 

[CDNBear]

The only time Israel was mentio

Well, the thread isn't dead yet, is it?? The idiot is you with no brains whatsoever!

You two aren't alone. There are many in the field that refuse to take the accounts of Israel at face value, unless their veracity can be validated by independent witnesses. Not only is this method unscientific, it's ladened with bias. Other ancient documents would have to be assumed to be accurate, even though said documents are just as based in religion as the Bible. Whose authors filled said texts with stories of their gods, and what those gods did on their behalf.

But since that is the method by which you seem to want to make your case, there is ample evidence of Israel in historical footnotes.

Lets start with a portion of the OP's article. How else could have Merenptah laid waste to Israel, and leave Khurru widowed? Why would this be recorded, if it was not a great victory, by the greatest king of his time? The Stele isn't the only time Israel is mentioned in Egyptian texts. An older reference was recently discovered, on a pillar plate from the dynasty of Ramesses II (Merenptah's Father), mentions Israel as well.

Why would the blogger in the OP, want to remove Egypt from the equation?

Well, other than him being painfully uninformed, he erroneously believes that if he were to remove Egypt from the equation, the existence of an historic Israel, would fall apart and his sad story would have a leg to stand on.

It doesn't.

In North Africa, where the Phoenicians settled having been driven from Canaan. Greek historian Procopius, wrote of column reliefs stating "We are they who fled from before the face of Joshua, the robber, the son of Nun". This of course is corroborated by the Armenian historian, Moses of Khoren, who wrote of similar column inscriptions, stating, "The inhabitants of these were Canaanites fleeing from the face of Joshua the son of Nun".

I might mention, that this post, contains documented archaeological, and historical references, to which footnotes and accreditation to historical scholars, can be supplied. I prefer to use reputable sources for historical information, not bloggers, that make wild claims, without any form of footnotes or full references to accredited historical evidence, in full.

 

[MHz]

Didn't God send Abraham to the same place as where Jerusalem stands before and isn't that where the High Priest came from. A High Priest of God in the Order of Melchisedec

http://bibleatlas.org/area/jerusalem.jpg

Somebody had authority from God to be there so God put control of that place under His control early on. Slaves were anybody who 'worked' as their 'bosses' were their 'owners'. Joseph was sold into slavery meaning he was in dept and could have purchased his own release instead he was the 'first of a group' to get to Egypt and it just works out that the debt gets paid off and that person gets in good with the Rulers so that when the rest of his 'blood brothers' arrive they are let in rather than being turned away. If they had all left a decade later their old lands may have been almost like they left them.

(rather than God punish people by creating a famine in the first place perhaps God just held back the rain a little more than normal. and Egypt being mentioned that many times is nothing to write home about, really. It was a place that needed to be there as it was part of the prophecies that had to do with events connected to the cross. The cross ended the events connected to the prophecies dealing with the bruise to the heel. Egypt is representative of Gentile Nations, in Zec:14 it will be all 10 Nations that come to the feast of they will get no rain. Using Egypt and the 700 times is nothing when compared to the number of words in the OT. Babylon is probably mentioned more in just a few OT books, that should make her more important. The introduction to Egypt was one of protection from starvation to death and the way they paid for their room and board was by becoming the 'working class'. When Moses came for the Exodus it would be like us putting out a draft notice that would claim everybody with a driver's to get over to Greenland right quick. The ones left behind are going to 'complain')

Not to be lost is that God left them there for 430 years exactly and in the 430 years their population must have changed, if it went up then they were 'thriving slaves (the lowest social class in a two class society) and if down then they were persecuted slaves. In that length of time if they were under persecution they would be extinct. As it was they were in certain jobs and they had a restriction on how many children they could have. Everybody had slaves back then why is it being painted that it was so bad in this one case when it wasn't. What can be gleaned from the 430 year part is the land had to be retaken through war rather than on a heritage theme which could have been an argument if it had been 30 years that they were gone.

Salem, Jerusalem, New Jerusalem are all in the same spot just different sizes, that is the are God has claimed as His 'capital city' and the border He put on the garden is Ge:2 is also His but from the exit from the Garden to the sound of the 7th trump in Re:11 Jerusalem is all He claims. The division of lands was a lease that had a start and an end. De:4:30 is the prophecy that came to be fulfilled when Luke:21:20 happened in 70AD. That was the scattering but this time it was for a mission from God, spread the word about the Kongdom of God to 'all Gentiles' as they now had a place in salvation. Before the land divisions of Ezekiel can be redone Jerusalem had to have the Messiah sitting on a throne in a Temple in Jerusalem and there are a lot of 'supernatural sized' conditions that go along with that so fakery is impossible. Babylon's exile was ended only as far as the city and the temple were concerned and when the cross was complete the temple ceased to have any special function as repenting sins could be done anywhere and the priest class was only needed to publish the books.

Obviously more than 430 has past and retaking land by force and keeping it was 'illegal' by the time 1945 rolled around and an agreement made before the Balfour Declaration was made with all locals that they would be granted sovereign nation status if they helped complete a specific task, they did so that agreement has to be honored. That happens to be a claim to land that was their just 30 yrs before it was given to another through an act of war, the Jews even named it as a war and it comes complete with refugees created in the same way WWII refugees were created, means that were deemed 'illegal'.

If they lay claim to the land based on written texts the the author of those texts should be able to confirm that He did write such a document and it is meant to be respected this very day. Just saying ......

 

[Machjo]

I have news for you, DB: all nations are invented; in each case, people had to conceptualize the nation and then create it. By definition the nation is an aritifial construct.

 

[taxslave]

Well, the thread isn't dead yet, is it?? The idiot is you with no brains whatsoever!

Yuri Avnery wrote an excellent piece just recently about Israel's myths and mentioned this...
"There can no longer be the slightest doubt that the Exodus never happened.
Neither the Exodus, nor the wandering in the desert, nor the conquest of Canaan."

"Without the Exodus story, there would probably be no State of Israel today – and certainly not in Palestine..."

and he writes further...

"There is no need to point out that after a hundred years of frantic archaeological searching by devout Christians and Zionist zealots, not a shred of concrete evidence for the conquest of Canaan has been found (nor that the kingdoms of Saul, David or Salomon ever existed)."

Sit down on your little fanny and read what else he has to say!

Judeofascism.com: Passover brainwashing ceremony designed to instill Jewish fear, loathing, paranoia, resentment and violent hatred of the goyim

Another pissant jew hater heard from.

 

[MHz]

The thread dies within hours if not replied to. Why give the idiot a forum for his racism and bigotry?

Yet you do just the opposite of your own advice???? What's up with that? (no reply wanted)
So the forum is just for your brand of racism and bigotry or are you claiming those traits cannot be found in you??

You should have some OT wisdom that shows the justification, after all you do support it so there should be some reason that is above 'because I'm supposed to'.

Gerry you are right why bother with
this nonsense.

Yet you bother to take the time to reply with, .... this????

Another pissant jew hater heard from.

There we go 3 little piggies.

 

[CDNBear]

There we go 3 little piggies.

The absolute hight of your intellectual abilities, fairy tales.

 

[MHz]

Suppose for a moment that the article/blog entry is true.

The Hebrews were never in Egypt as slaves and Exodus never happened.

Just how WOULD that change the course of "Biblical History"? How much would it invalidate the OT of the Bible and the stories that follow it?

How would it affect the claims of Israel today? Christianity?

I'm not saying what is there is truth, but what if...?

Never happened to what point?? The 10 Commandments were part of the exodus and the 600+ laws that Jesus is said to have followed came from those same wanderings. If this is about it then what is the 430 years about that requires wars and where were the giants back when Abraham and Joseph were around? If you leave an area because of famine that should come with a right to return once the famine is over, if left abandoned and other move in and have created cities and such then war is needed to claim the land. In the OT the war was intentionally caused so God could demonstrate how He fought wars. Then as now demononstraition of force is how you gain control over many if you are few, in this case one that is supernatural by our current standards (spoken word alone)

There are already things that show that today's Israel isn't part of any Bible verses, we are in a 'void' as far as there being any proof the Bible is talking about literal things. The various verses I've seen used don't hold up when you read the whole passage just once. What started in Like:21:20 stays the same until the last 42 months arrive and begin to unfold. It is somewhat like Jerusalem before John the Baptist was called, it was called the Holy City but not one true OT Prophet walked it's streets after the exile into Babylon. If God was in charge the very first thing that is to be done is all sinners killed in a single day and then every person that was ever a member of the 12 Tribes will be alive and walking around, that also goes for the Gentiles that make up the Church starting back at the time of the cross. Without that God is not working front and center.

That doesn't mean Jews are forbidden from being there (as far as I know) but if God is the reason then should they not take on the same role as God gave them (publishers about the Kingdom of God) perhaps they should enter as 'refugees from a famine of being without God) rather that attempting to fulfill prophecy about returning as waring kings. (perhaps God is playing a role, He got the Nations to sign all the children's rights documents saying war is wrong in big letters.