Genius
Posts: 813 
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 20th, 2007, 11:33 AM
From ctv news:
if (screen.width> 582.0 + 20) var win_width1 = 582.0; else win_width1 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 672.0 + 20) var win_height1 = 672.0; else win_height1 = screen.height - 20;win_prop1 = "width="+win_width1+",height="+win_height1+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop1);
View larger image
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion in Richmond Hill, Ont. on Feb. 18, 2007. (CP / Nathan Denette)
if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width2 = 655.0; else win_width2 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height2 = 615.0; else win_height2 = screen.height - 20;win_prop2 = "width="+win_width2+",height="+win_height2+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop2); View larger image
Just 18 per cent of respondents thought the Liberal leader would do the best job as prime minister, compared to 36 per cent for Stephen Harper.
if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width3 = 655.0; else win_width3 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height3 = 615.0; else win_height3 = screen.height - 20;win_prop3 = "width="+win_width3+",height="+win_height3+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop3); View larger image
The Liberals showed a significant drop since Dion first won his party's leadership race.
if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width4 = 655.0; else win_width4 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height4 = 615.0; else win_height4 = screen.height - 20;win_prop4 = "width="+win_width4+",height="+win_height4+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop4); View larger image
The poll hints that Canadians do not consider the Liberal environmental plan much more effective than that offered by the Conservatives.
if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width5 = 655.0; else win_width5 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height5 = 615.0; else win_height5 = screen.height - 20;win_prop5 = "width="+win_width5+",height="+win_height5+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop5); View larger image
More than half of respondents also felt that Harper is the most decisive of the party leaders.
Latest poll shows Dion, Liberals losing support
Updated Tue. Feb. 20 2007 8:59 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Stephane Dion's honeymoon with voters may be over. A new poll suggests fewer than one fifth of Canadians think he would make a good prime minister, as the parties gear up for a possible spring election.
"I think his problem is that he's not known," Tim Woolstencroft of The Strategic Counsel told CTV.ca on Monday.
"He clearly has not created an image for himself, and the Conservatives are in there trying to define his image and his leadership, and that's a challenge for him."
Following the release of Tory attack ads aimed directly at Dion, just 18 per cent of respondents thought the Liberal leader would do the best job as prime minister, compared to 36 per cent for Stephen Harper.
The Strategic Counsel conducted the survey between Feb. 15-18, for CTV News and The Globe and Mail.
Woolstencroft said Dion's numbers may improve as he boosts his political profile across the country. He also added that Harper would have received similar results in 2004, just after he became leader of the Conservative party.
But when asked how respondents would vote today, the Liberals showed a significant drop since Dion first won his party's leadership race (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3 poll in brackets):
"But keep in mind we still have to see some more movement. Right now, those numbers would by and large replicate what we got in the last election."
He added that the Conservatives likely need 38 or 40 per cent to win a majority government, and it's unclear if the latest poll indicates a growing trend.
Harper has also been unable to generate much more support in Ontario and Quebec.
"This is far from a slam dunk for Harper," said Woolstencroft. "There is a tremendous amount of ambivalence in Quebec and Ontario, with the numbers suggesting he is not close to a deal with (voters)."
In Ontario, the difference is just two per cent, less than the five per cent margin of error for the province's sample size (for details see 'Technical notes' below). Here are the results (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3 poll in brackets):
"All three opposition parties have just passed a bill demanding that the government meet the Kyoto targets, even though they know it's impossible to meet and could harm the economy," said Fife.
"All Stephen Harper has to do is present his own environmental plan that's credible, put some money into it with some targets, make it a confidence vote, and bingo -- he's trapped the opposition parties."
The best prime minister
Dion, an environmentalist who famously named his dog Kyoto, has made tackling climate change a major issue for his party.
But the poll hints that Canadians do not consider his plan much more effective than that offered by the Conservatives:
Meanwhile, when asked which party leader had the clearest vision of where he wants to take the country, Harper showed a significant lead over his rivals (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3-4 poll in brackets):
"I would not have been able to win this race if I had not been able to connect with Canadians ... I have a capacity to communicate with passion and with reason," he said last December.
But respondents seem to have felt otherwise in the poll. Here are the results when voters were asked who was the most charismatic (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3-4 poll in brackets):
"They're saying, 'Who's the leader? Stephane Dion or Michael Ignatieff? The Liberal caucus is starting to come apart at the seams," he said.
Technical notes
I'm not sure anyone in Canada is in love with Mr. Harper, which makes this all the worst for the liberals..
From ctv news:
if (screen.width> 582.0 + 20) var win_width1 = 582.0; else win_width1 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 672.0 + 20) var win_height1 = 672.0; else win_height1 = screen.height - 20;win_prop1 = "width="+win_width1+",height="+win_height1+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop1);
)
View larger image Liberal Leader Stephane Dion in Richmond Hill, Ont. on Feb. 18, 2007. (CP / Nathan Denette) if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width2 = 655.0; else win_width2 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height2 = 615.0; else win_height2 = screen.height - 20;win_prop2 = "width="+win_width2+",height="+win_height2+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop2);
View larger image Just 18 per cent of respondents thought the Liberal leader would do the best job as prime minister, compared to 36 per cent for Stephen Harper.if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width3 = 655.0; else win_width3 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height3 = 615.0; else win_height3 = screen.height - 20;win_prop3 = "width="+win_width3+",height="+win_height3+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop3);
View larger image The Liberals showed a significant drop since Dion first won his party's leadership race.if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width4 = 655.0; else win_width4 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height4 = 615.0; else win_height4 = screen.height - 20;win_prop4 = "width="+win_width4+",height="+win_height4+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop4);
View larger image The poll hints that Canadians do not consider the Liberal environmental plan much more effective than that offered by the Conservatives.if (screen.width> 655.0 + 20) var win_width5 = 655.0; else win_width5 = screen.width -20;if (screen.height > 615.0 + 20) var win_height5 = 615.0; else win_height5 = screen.height - 20;win_prop5 = "width="+win_width5+",height="+win_height5+",statu s=no,scrollbars=0,resizable=1,toolbar=no,left=1,sc reenX=1,screenY=0";//alert(win_prop5);
View larger image More than half of respondents also felt that Harper is the most decisive of the party leaders.Latest poll shows Dion, Liberals losing support
Updated Tue. Feb. 20 2007 8:59 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Stephane Dion's honeymoon with voters may be over. A new poll suggests fewer than one fifth of Canadians think he would make a good prime minister, as the parties gear up for a possible spring election.
"I think his problem is that he's not known," Tim Woolstencroft of The Strategic Counsel told CTV.ca on Monday.
"He clearly has not created an image for himself, and the Conservatives are in there trying to define his image and his leadership, and that's a challenge for him."
Following the release of Tory attack ads aimed directly at Dion, just 18 per cent of respondents thought the Liberal leader would do the best job as prime minister, compared to 36 per cent for Stephen Harper.
The Strategic Counsel conducted the survey between Feb. 15-18, for CTV News and The Globe and Mail.
Woolstencroft said Dion's numbers may improve as he boosts his political profile across the country. He also added that Harper would have received similar results in 2004, just after he became leader of the Conservative party.
But when asked how respondents would vote today, the Liberals showed a significant drop since Dion first won his party's leadership race (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3 poll in brackets):
- Liberals: 29 per cent (-
- Conservatives: 34 per cent (+ 3)
- NDP: 14 per cent (none)
- Bloc Quebecois: 11 per cent (none)
- Green Party: 12 per cent (+ 5)
"But keep in mind we still have to see some more movement. Right now, those numbers would by and large replicate what we got in the last election."
He added that the Conservatives likely need 38 or 40 per cent to win a majority government, and it's unclear if the latest poll indicates a growing trend.
Harper has also been unable to generate much more support in Ontario and Quebec.
"This is far from a slam dunk for Harper," said Woolstencroft. "There is a tremendous amount of ambivalence in Quebec and Ontario, with the numbers suggesting he is not close to a deal with (voters)."
In Ontario, the difference is just two per cent, less than the five per cent margin of error for the province's sample size (for details see 'Technical notes' below). Here are the results (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3 poll in brackets):
- Liberals: 39 per cent (- 9)
- Conservatives: 34 per cent (+ 2)
- NDP: 14 per cent (- 1)
- Green Party: 13 per cent (+
"All three opposition parties have just passed a bill demanding that the government meet the Kyoto targets, even though they know it's impossible to meet and could harm the economy," said Fife.
"All Stephen Harper has to do is present his own environmental plan that's credible, put some money into it with some targets, make it a confidence vote, and bingo -- he's trapped the opposition parties."
The best prime minister
Dion, an environmentalist who famously named his dog Kyoto, has made tackling climate change a major issue for his party.
But the poll hints that Canadians do not consider his plan much more effective than that offered by the Conservatives:
- Liberals: 23 per cent
- Conservatives: 20 per cent
- NDP: 21 per cent
- Bloc Quebecois: 6 per cent
- Other/don't know/refused: 31 per cent
Meanwhile, when asked which party leader had the clearest vision of where he wants to take the country, Harper showed a significant lead over his rivals (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3-4 poll in brackets):
- Stephen Harper: 50 per cent (+ 1
- Stephane Dion: 22 per cent (- 16 from when Paul Martin was leader)
- Jack Layton: 20 per cent (+ 1)
- Gilles Duceppe: 8 per cent (- 4)
- Harper: 53 per cent
- Dion: 19 per cent
- Layton: 20 per cent
- Duceppe: 8 per cent
"I would not have been able to win this race if I had not been able to connect with Canadians ... I have a capacity to communicate with passion and with reason," he said last December.
But respondents seem to have felt otherwise in the poll. Here are the results when voters were asked who was the most charismatic (percentage-point change from a Dec. 3-4 poll in brackets):
- Harper: 35 per cent (+ 1
- Dion: 20 per cent (- 9 from when Martin was leader)
- Layton: 36 per cent (- 2)
- Duceppe: 10 per cent (- 4)
"They're saying, 'Who's the leader? Stephane Dion or Michael Ignatieff? The Liberal caucus is starting to come apart at the seams," he said.
Technical notes
- Results are based on tracking among a proportionate national sample of Canadians 18 years of age or older.
- Interviews were conducted between Feb. 15 and Feb. 18, 2007.
- The national sample size is 1,000. The margin of error is plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.
- The Ontario sample is 379. The margin of error is 5.0 percentage points.
I'm not sure anyone in Canada is in love with Mr. Harper, which makes this all the worst for the liberals..
Member
Posts: 53
February 20th, 2007, 11:46 AM
Dion has a few problems. One is that people aren't really seeing him as much of a leader. Another and more important one is, people usually vote out governments, not vote them in. There's no widespread clamoring for a new government right now. Harper and his Conservatives have done a good enough job that most people are satisfied, and would be comfortable giving them a longer turn at the wheel.
Dion also has some geographic electability issues. He would do poorly in the West and probably Quebec. Lukewarm support in Ontario and Atlantic Canada isn't enough to win.
Dion has a few problems. One is that people aren't really seeing him as much of a leader. Another and more important one is, people usually vote out governments, not vote them in. There's no widespread clamoring for a new government right now. Harper and his Conservatives have done a good enough job that most people are satisfied, and would be comfortable giving them a longer turn at the wheel.
Dion also has some geographic electability issues. He would do poorly in the West and probably Quebec. Lukewarm support in Ontario and Atlantic Canada isn't enough to win.
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,343
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
February 20th, 2007, 11:51 AM
The problem is they rode the big green wave of hypocrisy and Canadians noticed. They should have gone with someone who could have rebuilt the party but instead they went with someone they thought could win, but got it wrong.
I said it when they chose him and I'm saying it again now, Dion will never be PM, nor would have Rae but the difference is Rae could have helped rebuild the party, Dion will divide it.
The problem is they rode the big green wave of hypocrisy and Canadians noticed. They should have gone with someone who could have rebuilt the party but instead they went with someone they thought could win, but got it wrong.
I said it when they chose him and I'm saying it again now, Dion will never be PM, nor would have Rae but the difference is Rae could have helped rebuild the party, Dion will divide it.
Genius
Posts: 813
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 20th, 2007, 12:01 PM
It's quite funny to me that the more Dion talks about the enviroment the more support the Green party gets....just too good!!!
Honestly, I think Canadians mostly know that enviromental issues are just being played by most parties for votes..outside of the green party..which has no other issue i may add...
I do agree with the statemnet above that we vote gov's out not elect them. I see the persent goverment as doing a fine job..agree or not with their dirrection, they haven't screwed up, no great amount of damage control required for any issue that has arrisen....The only members they have lost were both a bit out to lunch.
Do'n fine I think.
It's quite funny to me that the more Dion talks about the enviroment the more support the Green party gets....just too good!!!
Honestly, I think Canadians mostly know that enviromental issues are just being played by most parties for votes..outside of the green party..which has no other issue i may add...
I do agree with the statemnet above that we vote gov's out not elect them. I see the persent goverment as doing a fine job..agree or not with their dirrection, they haven't screwed up, no great amount of damage control required for any issue that has arrisen....The only members they have lost were both a bit out to lunch.
Do'n fine I think.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,982 
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
February 20th, 2007, 01:06 PM
Funny, Dion is NOT very bilingual. Somebody raised that issue during the leadership campaign, and I defended him, but his English seems to have actually gotten WORSE over the last 6 months..........I think he doesn't do well in the language when flustered, or off his usual script.
Doesn't bode well for him in English Canada.
Funny, Dion is NOT very bilingual. Somebody raised that issue during the leadership campaign, and I defended him, but his English seems to have actually gotten WORSE over the last 6 months..........I think he doesn't do well in the language when flustered, or off his usual script.
Doesn't bode well for him in English Canada.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 634
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
February 20th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Quoting Colpy
I'm an English Quebecer and I feel the same way.
Funny, Dion is NOT very bilingual. Somebody raised that issue during the leadership campaign, and I defended him, but his English seems to have actually gotten WORSE over the last 6 months..........I think he doesn't do well in the language when flustered, or off his usual script.
Doesn't bode well for him in English Canada.
Doesn't bode well for him in English Canada.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519
February 20th, 2007, 02:26 PM
The Conservatives have been running a media blitz attacking Dion, is it any wonder that his numbers are down. Their whole agenda has been focused on undermining his support since he was chosen as Liberal leader.
Whether or not Dion stands a chance of becoming PM depends on how well he reacts to this well organized assault. Personally I think he's been doing well considering the millions of dollars that have been spent in the last few months just to convince us not to support him.
The Conservatives have been running a media blitz attacking Dion, is it any wonder that his numbers are down. Their whole agenda has been focused on undermining his support since he was chosen as Liberal leader.
Whether or not Dion stands a chance of becoming PM depends on how well he reacts to this well organized assault. Personally I think he's been doing well considering the millions of dollars that have been spent in the last few months just to convince us not to support him.
Genius
Posts: 813
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 20th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Quoting Cobalt_Kid
so you are saying that Liberals can be turned towards conservatives because of an Ad campain..not very solid support I would say!!
The Conservatives have been running a media blitz attacking Dion, is it any wonder that his numbers are down. Their whole agenda has been focused on undermining his support since he was chosen as Liberal leader.
Whether or not Dion stands a chance of becoming PM depends on how well he reacts to this well organized assault. Personally I think he's been doing well considering the millions of dollars that have been spent in the last few months just to convince us not to support him.
Whether or not Dion stands a chance of becoming PM depends on how well he reacts to this well organized assault. Personally I think he's been doing well considering the millions of dollars that have been spent in the last few months just to convince us not to support him.
Bright Spark
Posts: 315
Location: Atikokan, Ontario
Location: Atikokan, Ontario
February 20th, 2007, 02:49 PM
It works both ways bill - the hyperbole is unnecessary.
Quoting ottawabill
Yes, not at all like a majority-ruling party being reduced to two seats, before eventually again becoming the official opposition and then the ruling party.
so you are saying that Liberals can be turned towards conservatives because of an Ad campain..not very solid support I would say!!
It works both ways bill - the hyperbole is unnecessary.
Genius
Posts: 813
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 20th, 2007, 02:57 PM
They did not lose that support because they were told to by ad's rather the gov. of the day lost support because we had a terrible government. Honestly the Liberal party has not taken in account that they should spend so time reflecting come up with a new strategy and stop just looking like they are the natural governing party..they have not learnd. If they do get in the next time around (sure) they would go right back to their old ways. Damn if this was the U.S. a number of people would be in jail for 25 years for the stuff that was going on here!!
Quoting snowles
Yes, not at all like a majority-ruling party being reduced to two seats, before eventually again becoming the official opposition and then the ruling party. It works both ways bill - the hyperbole is unnecessary.
It works both ways bill - the hyperbole is unnecessary.
They did not lose that support because they were told to by ad's rather the gov. of the day lost support because we had a terrible government. Honestly the Liberal party has not taken in account that they should spend so time reflecting come up with a new strategy and stop just looking like they are the natural governing party..they have not learnd. If they do get in the next time around (sure) they would go right back to their old ways. Damn if this was the U.S. a number of people would be in jail for 25 years for the stuff that was going on here!!
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519
February 20th, 2007, 03:42 PM
At least Dion is for something, all the Conservatives can really do is attack his position. John Baird wasn't moved into the Environment portfolio because of his strong background there. It's because he's a pitbull when it comes to attacking Conservative opponents. He was part of the Harris government who caused the whole Walkerton mess because of cuts in Ontario after all.
Quoting ottawabill
I'm saying that a lot of the votes the Conservatives got the last election were protest votes against the Liberals. There's not a lot of support for the Harper government, so the only way they can stay up in the polls is to keep attacking the Liberals.
so you are saying that Liberals can be turned towards conservatives because of an Ad campain..not very solid support I would say!!
At least Dion is for something, all the Conservatives can really do is attack his position. John Baird wasn't moved into the Environment portfolio because of his strong background there. It's because he's a pitbull when it comes to attacking Conservative opponents. He was part of the Harris government who caused the whole Walkerton mess because of cuts in Ontario after all.
Member
Posts: 74
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Location: Nanaimo, BC
February 20th, 2007, 04:29 PM
Facts:
1. Canadians want to see radical changes in environmental policy (preticularily GHG emissions) to strive towards Kyoto targets.
2. The Liberals took advantage of this by choosing M. Dion as their leader.
3. The conservative don't have the political will to make neccessary changes.
4. The Liberals have not put forward a good solid plan to reduce GHG emissions.
5. Voters are losing patience with all the main (3 or 4) political parties on the issue.
6. Green party support is going up.
Now. When M. Dion was chosen as Liberal leader myself and a lot of others thought that he must have a dynamite plan complete with REAL initiatives, REAL projects and REAL goals to combat our rising GHG emissions and work towards acheiving Kyoto... Where is it? If he has a great plan, he should reveal it to canadians so that they know that if they elect him as PM he will put his great plan in action RIGHT AWAY. He must make it clear that despite complaicency by his party on the issue in the past, a radical plan must be enacted RIGHT AWAY and would be the first thing done by his party if elected.
Here are some of the components I think his plan should include:
1. Consultation of all the experts in the country on renewable energy, fuel efficiency, public transport, etc. Ask the experts what to do. Don't pretend that people with political science degrees are experts on this issue.
2. Cutting GHG emissions mainly here in Canada. Not focusing on the carbon credit system. People want to see the changes first hand here in Canada.
3. Giving people real, big-time incentives to cut their personal energy use. Incentives that would actually make it worthwhile to cut energy consumption and not leave it up to people to make a moral decision... FORCE them to change. Make it too expensive for business, industry and residents to waste energy.
If the Liberals squander this chance they will likely not be in power anytime soon. And despite the environment being the #1 issue to Canadians it will not be addressed properly by the conservatives. Green party support may continue to rise but 2012 is not that far off. We need action on GHG emissions now and we need the solutions to come from the experts not from doddling politicians. M. Dion, give Canada what it wants; the chance to meet Kyoto and conserve our global respect.
Facts:
1. Canadians want to see radical changes in environmental policy (preticularily GHG emissions) to strive towards Kyoto targets.
2. The Liberals took advantage of this by choosing M. Dion as their leader.
3. The conservative don't have the political will to make neccessary changes.
4. The Liberals have not put forward a good solid plan to reduce GHG emissions.
5. Voters are losing patience with all the main (3 or 4) political parties on the issue.
6. Green party support is going up.
Now. When M. Dion was chosen as Liberal leader myself and a lot of others thought that he must have a dynamite plan complete with REAL initiatives, REAL projects and REAL goals to combat our rising GHG emissions and work towards acheiving Kyoto... Where is it? If he has a great plan, he should reveal it to canadians so that they know that if they elect him as PM he will put his great plan in action RIGHT AWAY. He must make it clear that despite complaicency by his party on the issue in the past, a radical plan must be enacted RIGHT AWAY and would be the first thing done by his party if elected.
Here are some of the components I think his plan should include:
1. Consultation of all the experts in the country on renewable energy, fuel efficiency, public transport, etc. Ask the experts what to do. Don't pretend that people with political science degrees are experts on this issue.
2. Cutting GHG emissions mainly here in Canada. Not focusing on the carbon credit system. People want to see the changes first hand here in Canada.
3. Giving people real, big-time incentives to cut their personal energy use. Incentives that would actually make it worthwhile to cut energy consumption and not leave it up to people to make a moral decision... FORCE them to change. Make it too expensive for business, industry and residents to waste energy.
If the Liberals squander this chance they will likely not be in power anytime soon. And despite the environment being the #1 issue to Canadians it will not be addressed properly by the conservatives. Green party support may continue to rise but 2012 is not that far off. We need action on GHG emissions now and we need the solutions to come from the experts not from doddling politicians. M. Dion, give Canada what it wants; the chance to meet Kyoto and conserve our global respect.
Genius
Posts: 813
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 21st, 2007, 11:31 AM
The sad thing about the voting public is that on one hand I agree they want action on the enviroment..a fast a furiuos plan to kick start a turning away to global warming...Yes they want in NOW, until someone actually does it then it will be different,
They will scream that fuel cost have doubled,
there is an enviro tax attached to there car licence
Only one bag of gargage a week can be at the curb,
food and veggie prices soar because of trucking emission quota's
Then they will all be ready to vote for the party that will bring taxes down and lower fuel costs....
We all want our cake and eat it too, we want a healthier planet but still want to drive or fly to florida every year with hundreds of thousands of others. Less coal emmissions, but no Nuclear, more Hydro electric, but no dams, but want our homes at the same temp in the winter and summer..no a degree more or less...
Outside of real activist how live and breath this stuff..the general population is fickle....ther big issue today is unimportant tomorrow....
thats why all the parties are poll driven instead of issue driven...
The sad thing about the voting public is that on one hand I agree they want action on the enviroment..a fast a furiuos plan to kick start a turning away to global warming...Yes they want in NOW, until someone actually does it then it will be different,
They will scream that fuel cost have doubled,
there is an enviro tax attached to there car licence
Only one bag of gargage a week can be at the curb,
food and veggie prices soar because of trucking emission quota's
Then they will all be ready to vote for the party that will bring taxes down and lower fuel costs....
We all want our cake and eat it too, we want a healthier planet but still want to drive or fly to florida every year with hundreds of thousands of others. Less coal emmissions, but no Nuclear, more Hydro electric, but no dams, but want our homes at the same temp in the winter and summer..no a degree more or less...
Outside of real activist how live and breath this stuff..the general population is fickle....ther big issue today is unimportant tomorrow....
thats why all the parties are poll driven instead of issue driven...
Clever Clogs
Posts: 520
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
May 30th, 2007, 10:43 AM
As far as the environmental issue is concerned I am getting just a little tired of it taking over every discussion and am sure that others feel the same way. I shiver in the winter and cook in the summer (no AC, you see) and still my hydro bill is bigger almost every month, I carpool, I install those twisty mercury-filled flourescent bulbs, I cram my walls with better and better insulation and still I am told by windbag politicians and environmentalists that I am doing nothing, that I am killing the globe. Politicians who keep talking about making energy users pay more get me nervous, whereas politicians who speak of the environment and include realities such as retaining jobs, increasing productivity, improving efficiency make me think they are considering all the issues not just the one issue currently on everybody's lips. It is in the best interest of energy users to be more efficient, to use less energy. Fostering the invention of better technology through research, and the implementation of more efficient technology by users should be the government's objective. Punishing energy companies and banning existing technology for ideological reasons are a sad substitute for real leadership and assistance.
I find it hard to believe that now that the Liberals are out of government Dion has all the answers on the environment while under his Liberal rule the Kyoto commitment was made and no progress made. If it was so damn easy to cut emissions why weren't our emissions cut? Or mabey it is actually difficult if not impossible to meet such reckless goals, as the Conservatives have stated.
As far as the environmental issue is concerned I am getting just a little tired of it taking over every discussion and am sure that others feel the same way. I shiver in the winter and cook in the summer (no AC, you see) and still my hydro bill is bigger almost every month, I carpool, I install those twisty mercury-filled flourescent bulbs, I cram my walls with better and better insulation and still I am told by windbag politicians and environmentalists that I am doing nothing, that I am killing the globe. Politicians who keep talking about making energy users pay more get me nervous, whereas politicians who speak of the environment and include realities such as retaining jobs, increasing productivity, improving efficiency make me think they are considering all the issues not just the one issue currently on everybody's lips. It is in the best interest of energy users to be more efficient, to use less energy. Fostering the invention of better technology through research, and the implementation of more efficient technology by users should be the government's objective. Punishing energy companies and banning existing technology for ideological reasons are a sad substitute for real leadership and assistance.
I find it hard to believe that now that the Liberals are out of government Dion has all the answers on the environment while under his Liberal rule the Kyoto commitment was made and no progress made. If it was so damn easy to cut emissions why weren't our emissions cut? Or mabey it is actually difficult if not impossible to meet such reckless goals, as the Conservatives have stated.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
May 30th, 2007, 10:59 AM
iartthereforeIam
I just finished writing a letter to John Williams, requesting a clarification on why exactly he as a member of Parliamentarians Against Corruption...doesn't want to hear about the apparent corruption in the RCMP....
Parliamentarians in Canada believe that their jobs are about themselves. Ensuring the golden parachute awaits at the end of six years of bamboozling the people of Canada and claiming to perform some function in the interests of the electorate.
Liberals have demonstrated exactly this attitude. Steal from Canadians and funnel money to your buddies in Quebec. If you were to mention the idea of global warming or climate change in front of a Liberal the best you'd get is a quizzical look and a wash of stupid ignorance enveloping those conditioned-to-stupidity and party-loyalty faces. Because the majority of Canadians are silent on issues like climate change and global warming...the monkeys in Canadian Parliament sit stoically in their benches in the House of Commons and do whatever the hell they like....the people be damned.
Perceptual engineering by the fossil fuel combines has convinced people that global warming is just a myth, that anthropomorphic global warming is a "tree-hugger" issue having more to do with hidden agendas and pet-peeves than real substantive concerns about climate.
As much as I accept that writing to my "Members of Parliament" may be a waste of time, I've got lots of time to waste before I'm worm food. So I intend to keep on writing to these morons via their e-mail addressess and through snail-mail. It won't matter that you keep your house insulated or that you exercise prudence in your personal use of fossil fuels, what matters is the great numb-brained masses of Canadians dreaming that everything is just swell....
As I've said before Canadians are pathetic when it comes to making their will known and holding their government to accountability. Sheep.
iartthereforeIam
I just finished writing a letter to John Williams, requesting a clarification on why exactly he as a member of Parliamentarians Against Corruption...doesn't want to hear about the apparent corruption in the RCMP....
Parliamentarians in Canada believe that their jobs are about themselves. Ensuring the golden parachute awaits at the end of six years of bamboozling the people of Canada and claiming to perform some function in the interests of the electorate.
Liberals have demonstrated exactly this attitude. Steal from Canadians and funnel money to your buddies in Quebec. If you were to mention the idea of global warming or climate change in front of a Liberal the best you'd get is a quizzical look and a wash of stupid ignorance enveloping those conditioned-to-stupidity and party-loyalty faces. Because the majority of Canadians are silent on issues like climate change and global warming...the monkeys in Canadian Parliament sit stoically in their benches in the House of Commons and do whatever the hell they like....the people be damned.
Perceptual engineering by the fossil fuel combines has convinced people that global warming is just a myth, that anthropomorphic global warming is a "tree-hugger" issue having more to do with hidden agendas and pet-peeves than real substantive concerns about climate.
As much as I accept that writing to my "Members of Parliament" may be a waste of time, I've got lots of time to waste before I'm worm food. So I intend to keep on writing to these morons via their e-mail addressess and through snail-mail. It won't matter that you keep your house insulated or that you exercise prudence in your personal use of fossil fuels, what matters is the great numb-brained masses of Canadians dreaming that everything is just swell....
As I've said before Canadians are pathetic when it comes to making their will known and holding their government to accountability. Sheep.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 520
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
June 5th, 2007, 12:26 PM
The truth is that we use far too much energy, every one of us. We must make changes that 1) reduce the energy we use and 2) use more efficient energy sources. However we cannot willy nilly decide this and that without fully comming to grips with reality. In Ontario the Liberals had the lofty and admirable goal of shuttering all coal-fired generating stations. Sounds good, right? Not when you hear that there is no replacement to the lost capacity. So brownouts and blackouts may be a solution, its just not a very good solution.
A better solution may be a realistic look at how countries that are meeting their energy needs are doing it. If a country like France is to be our model of Kyoto compliance why is it that we are afraid to follow it's example and utilize nuclear and build a system of high-speed trains to connect our country. If it is so important to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions that to fail to do so will result in our extinction (or something nearly as calamatous) than to not look to such an option as nuclear seems ridiculous.
Quoting MikeyDB
I have to disagree. My personal choices are what matter. It is the personal choices we all make that make up the whole of the Canadian energy demand. You clearly think Canadians are mindless lemmings and politicians are greedy blood-sucking ogres. And for some reason you still think all the initiatives must come from the top. If we all took measures to reduce the energy we use by being more more efficient we could greatly reduce the energy need of the nation.
iartthereforeIam
It won't matter that you keep your house insulated or that you exercise prudence in your personal use of fossil fuels, what matters is the great numb-brained masses of Canadians dreaming that everything is just swell....
As I've said before Canadians are pathetic when it comes to making their will known and holding their government to accountability. Sheep.
It won't matter that you keep your house insulated or that you exercise prudence in your personal use of fossil fuels, what matters is the great numb-brained masses of Canadians dreaming that everything is just swell....
As I've said before Canadians are pathetic when it comes to making their will known and holding their government to accountability. Sheep.
The truth is that we use far too much energy, every one of us. We must make changes that 1) reduce the energy we use and 2) use more efficient energy sources. However we cannot willy nilly decide this and that without fully comming to grips with reality. In Ontario the Liberals had the lofty and admirable goal of shuttering all coal-fired generating stations. Sounds good, right? Not when you hear that there is no replacement to the lost capacity. So brownouts and blackouts may be a solution, its just not a very good solution.
A better solution may be a realistic look at how countries that are meeting their energy needs are doing it. If a country like France is to be our model of Kyoto compliance why is it that we are afraid to follow it's example and utilize nuclear and build a system of high-speed trains to connect our country. If it is so important to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions that to fail to do so will result in our extinction (or something nearly as calamatous) than to not look to such an option as nuclear seems ridiculous.
