Orthodox Jewish men keep delaying flights by refusing to sit next to women


tay
#1
A flight from New York to Tel Aviv was delayed by half an hour last week after a group of male ultra-Orthodox Jewish passengers refused to sit next to women (external - login to view), the third such incident in recent months.


The cabin crew on the Delta flight out of John F. Kennedy Airport tried to find seats for the men, but were met with refusal by other passengers, some of whom who took a dim view of the reasoning behind the request.


The incident took place on Delta flight 468 on 20 December, the Israeli publication The Times of Israel reports. An American passenger ultimately switched seats with the men.


This is the third widely reported incident in the last few months in which ultra-Orthodox Jewish men have delayed a flight by asking to be segregated from women.


On the eve of the Jewish festival Rosh Hashana in October, a flight, also between New York and Tel Aviv, was delayed by an hour after a group of Haredim refused to sit next to women.


In this case, passengers ultimately left the plane before take-off.


A month earlier in September an El Al flight descended into an “11-hour long nightmare” (external - login to view) after a group of Haredi Jewish passengers refused to sit next to women.




In the UK, the ultra-Orthadox Jewish community in Stamford Hill, north London, was recently criticised after signs requesting women to walk on a certain side of the street were erected (external - login to view), promoting segregation for a Torah parade.


more




Groups of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men keep delaying flights by refusing to sit next to women - World - News - The Independent (external - login to view)
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
Sal
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by tayView Post

A flight from New York to Tel Aviv was delayed by half an hour last week after a group of male ultra-Orthodox Jewish passengers refused to sit next to women (external - login to view), the third such incident in recent months.


The cabin crew on the Delta flight out of John F. Kennedy Airport tried to find seats for the men, but were met with refusal by other passengers, some of whom who took a dim view of the reasoning behind the request.


The incident took place on Delta flight 468 on 20 December, the Israeli publication The Times of Israel reports. An American passenger ultimately switched seats with the men.


This is the third widely reported incident in the last few months in which ultra-Orthodox Jewish men have delayed a flight by asking to be segregated from women.


On the eve of the Jewish festival Rosh Hashana in October, a flight, also between New York and Tel Aviv, was delayed by an hour after a group of Haredim refused to sit next to women.


In this case, passengers ultimately left the plane before take-off.


A month earlier in September an El Al flight descended into an “11-hour long nightmare” (external - login to view) after a group of Haredi Jewish passengers refused to sit next to women.




In the UK, the ultra-Orthadox Jewish community in Stamford Hill, north London, was recently criticised after signs requesting women to walk on a certain side of the street were erected (external - login to view), promoting segregation for a Torah parade.


more




Groups of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men keep delaying flights by refusing to sit next to women - World - News - The Independent (external - login to view)

I have a problem with this. They are using a public airline and holding it hostage for private treatment.

I'd give up my seat no problem. My next flight is free or I'm not moving.

that's best case scenario for me...in reality I'd like just give up my seat...this seems wrong to me on multiple levels.
 
tay
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

I have a problem with this. They are using a public airline and holding it hostage for private treatment.

I'd give up my seat no problem. My next flight is free or I'm not moving.

that's best case scenario for me...in reality I'd like just give up my seat...this seems wrong to me on multiple levels.







I have a problem with that too. And I'm really surprised at their 'sidewalk' request.........












 
Sal
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by tayView Post

I have a problem with that too. And I'm really surprised at their 'sidewalk' request.........

yes I'd like to say I am....I admit that I breezed over that with a..."yeah" said in my head only because it conjured up some vague memory that never came to the forefront of my brain but gave me that feeling of familiarity that this was not unusual

extremism...

the women used to shave their heads and wear wigs

maybe still do

I remember there being a big upheaval about the wailing wall and I don't think the women can pray at it or something...

orthodoxy and equality...they don't live side by side
 
Ludlow
+5
#5  Top Rated Post
I was putting in some furniture for a Jewish couple down in Tucson awhile back. Headboard and accessories for the master bedroom. Had to wait for the electrician to move an outlet before we could complete the job. As I was waiting I could not help but notice a print on the wall. I guess the only way to describe it , would be that it was a pledge between a husband and a wife. That they would learn together, grow together and be devoted to each other as equal partners in life. They call this tradition a word which starts with a K but right now I can't seem to recall the word. As I read these words and considered my position as a divorcee, I gotta admit I had to step outside for awhile. Maybe the sentiment expressed in this thread does indicate a second class distinction of women among this strand of Judaism. But that print I read on the wall contradicts this idea. Anyways, have a happy New
Year everyone.
 
Sal
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by LudlowView Post

I was putting in some furniture for a Jewish couple down in Tucson awhile back. Headboard and accessories for the master bedroom. Had to wait for the electrician to move an outlet before we could complete the job. As I was waiting I could not help but notice a print on the wall. I guess the only way to describe it , would be that it was a pledge between a husband and a wife. That they would learn together, grow together and be devoted to each other as equal partners in life. They call this tradition a word which starts with a K but right now I can't seem to recall the word. As I read these words and considered my position as a divorcee, I gotta admit I had to step outside for awhile. Maybe the sentiment expressed in this thread does indicate a second class distinction of women among this strand of Judaism. But that print I read on the wall contradicts this idea. Anyways, have a happy New
Year everyone.

were they Orthodox Jews?

there are many sects and various beliefs just like there are within the Christian groups
 
SLM
+2
#7
Why the hell would they, or anyone else, have to delay a flight? Was this "condition" not capable of being mentioned when the flight was booked?
 
Serryah
+2
#8
I always wonder seeing stories like this just how different they are from Extremist Muslims and Extremist Christians.

I see no difference.
 
darkbeaver
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Why the hell would they, or anyone else, have to delay a flight? Was this "condition" not capable of being mentioned when the flight was booked?

Yes wasn't it? But that would have prevented the scene. Was the flight or the scene the purchase? How does the monster anti semitism land in our villages?
 
Ludlow
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

were they Orthodox Jews?

there are many sects and various beliefs just like there are within the Christian groups

Yes I'm aware of that thank you.
 
Walter
#11
He must be Jewish, too.
Jet Blue flight delayed by tardy de Blasio | New York Post (external - login to view)
 
DaSleeper
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

yes I'd like to say I am....I admit that I breezed over that with a..."yeah" said in my head only because it conjured up some vague memory that never came to the forefront of my brain but gave me that feeling of familiarity that this was not unusual

extremism...

the women used to shave their heads and wear wigs

maybe still do

I remember there being a big upheaval about the wailing wall and I don't think the women can pray at it or something...

orthodoxy and equality...they don't live side by side

I remember when women had to cover their heads to go in an R.C. church and men had to remove their hat....now women can wear whatever they want (within reason)....and with all the evolution of the church.....it is slowly shrinking.....while all the fanatical sects of different religions seem to be growing....
Could the R.C. church be going the wrong way?
Are the faithful actually looking for more guidance instead of less?
I only have questions and no real answer to that one...
 
Cannuck
+2 / -1
#13
Fundamentalism has little to do with religion and more to do with a fear of modernity. Religion is just the tool.
 
Blackleaf
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

I have a problem with this.

I suspect you'd have no problem with it were they Muslims rather than Jews.
 
Cannuck
+2 / -1
#15
Oops, looks like my common sense post has angered Wally.

Here ha go Wally, you should do some reading today.


fundamentalist and fear of modernity - Google Scholar (external - login to view)

I know it's a little over your head but you can always PM me when you get to the parts that confuse you. I'm here all day.

Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

I suspect you'd have no problem with it were they Muslims rather than Jews.

I suspect you suspect wrong.
 
lone wolf
+2
#16
If they're that damned great, why do they need the plane?
 
Sal
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by LudlowView Post

Yes I'm aware of that thank you.

okay I was just trying to do some research to find out what it was called and to see if the script was poetic or talmud because I was interested but we can just leave it

Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

I remember when women had to cover their heads to go in an R.C. church and men had to remove their hat....now women can wear whatever they want (within reason)....and with all the evolution of the church.....it is slowly shrinking.....while all the fanatical sects of different religions seem to be growing....
Could the R.C. church be going the wrong way?
Are the faithful actually looking for more guidance instead of less?
I only have questions and no real answer to that one...

I remember forgetting the class was going to mass thus not having a hat and being forced to wear a Kleenex on my head...

your observations of fanatical sects growing and some of the more open churches shrinking would seem to be true.

I don't know what that is about either...that might be a good thread for a discussion though because it does raise a lot of questions
 
Blackleaf
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post


I suspect you suspect wrong.

I rightly suspect that you wrongly suspect that I suspect wrong.
 
taxslave
#19
Maybe next time they can just group book and get a block of seats.
 
Sal
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

I suspect you'd have no problem with it were they Muslims rather than Jews.

no I would still have a problem with it

when the old Reitman brothers used to fly (Orthodox Jews) I don't recall planes leaving late because of needing special seating and their family is kosher thus they could not eat the airline meals, they used to bring their own food aboard not expect the airline to cater

when people live in a world that is this fast paced one can not expect the world to accommodate every need and whim, some balance has to be struck by all...it's possible but not with extremists

Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

I rightly suspect that you wrongly suspect that I suspect wrong.

but it's only the first day of the year and indeed...oops
 
taxslave
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

no I would still have a problem with it

when the old Reitman brothers used to fly (Orthodox Jews) I don't recall planes leaving late because of needing special seating and their family is kosher thus they could not eat the airline meals, they used to bring their own food aboard not expect the airline to cater

when people live in a world that is this fast paced one can not expect the world to accommodate every need and whim, some balance has to be struck by all...it's possible but not with extremists


but it's only the first day of the year and indeed...oops

If I had to fly that far I would bring my own food too.
 
darkbeaver
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

I rightly suspect that you wrongly suspect that I suspect wrong.

I suspect that you would have given up your seat. And your shoes and your dignity.
 
Sal
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

If I had to fly that far I would bring my own food too.

especially with that cardboard now....er...food
 
Cannuck
+3
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

I rightly suspect that you wrongly suspect that I suspect wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

no I would still have a problem with it

I quite rightly suspected that you would suspect that I wrongly suspected that you suspected wrongly. You were, as usual, wrong. I suspect you will not acknowledge your error.
 
taxslave
#25
Wow a trippple negative in there. Somehow one of you is going to end up being right. Or wrong.
 
Ludlow
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by LudlowView Post

I was putting in some furniture for a Jewish couple down in Tucson awhile back. Headboard and accessories for the master bedroom. Had to wait for the electrician to move an outlet before we could complete the job. As I was waiting I could not help but notice a print on the wall. I guess the only way to describe it , would be that it was a pledge between a husband and a wife. That they would learn together, grow together and be devoted to each other as equal partners in life. They call this tradition a word which starts with a K but right now I can't seem to recall the word. As I read these words and considered my position as a divorcee, I gotta admit I had to step outside for awhile. Maybe the sentiment expressed in this thread does indicate a second class distinction of women among this strand of Judaism. But that print I read on the wall contradicts this idea. Anyways, have a happy New
Year everyone.

It's called Ketubah.I looked it up
 
eh1eh
+1
#27
So misogynistic Luddites can control free people who don't subscribe to their beliefs?

Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

I suspect you'd have no problem with it were they Muslims rather than Jews.

I think it would be exactly the same. All religions are stupid equally.
 
Machjo
+1
#28
Welcome to Jewish Airways! Our all female travelers to Tel Aviv, please go to gate number nine. Your flight departs in 60 minutes. The male flight will depart 30 minutes later from gate 19. Thank you.
 
Cliffy
#29
I think these clowns should have to fly out on the wing. Reminds me of that video where a white woman refused to sit by a black woman and the stewardess took the black woman up to first class.
 
Machjo
+1
#30
We forgot to mention the female flights leave from JFK, the male ones from LGA.

Please note that all males must provide proof of circumcision. If you are an uncircumcised male, we ask that you arrive early so that the rabbi-on-location can circumcise you in our operations lounge.
Also, to reduce the risk of adultery and the consequent lapidation that must follow, male passengers having reached the age of maturity must be securely locked into a chastity cage and must not take any keys with them into the cabin.
 

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