A Mad Mulligan
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June 18th, 2007, 10:28 AM
We've had some problems with street racing recently and of course, as usual, the blame eventually gets around to a video game. Those damn kids again.
But what I'm wondering about is the recent splash of advertisements for cars that are aimed at street racing.
"Street Legal, we think"
0-60 in x seconds.
VW beats the BMW in 0-60
It's all about street racing.
Unless of course you have to get from 0-60 as fast as possible everyday.
With gas prices going up and having to go kill people in another land for their oil, shouldn't we be looking for better ways to use the gas we have then seeing just how fast we can get kids to drive cars.
If I have a lot of money, and I mean a lot of money, does that mean I should be allowed to do something detrimental to everyone else or is there a limit to that?
We've had some problems with street racing recently and of course, as usual, the blame eventually gets around to a video game. Those damn kids again.
But what I'm wondering about is the recent splash of advertisements for cars that are aimed at street racing.
"Street Legal, we think"
0-60 in x seconds.
VW beats the BMW in 0-60
It's all about street racing.
Unless of course you have to get from 0-60 as fast as possible everyday.
With gas prices going up and having to go kill people in another land for their oil, shouldn't we be looking for better ways to use the gas we have then seeing just how fast we can get kids to drive cars.
If I have a lot of money, and I mean a lot of money, does that mean I should be allowed to do something detrimental to everyone else or is there a limit to that?
A Mad Mulligan
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June 18th, 2007, 11:04 AM
Quoting IdRatherBeSkiing
Exactly. So does money make it right? And whose side are these guys on?
Its the same as the SUV sales selling cars for driving in the wilderness knowing most people who buy them will drive them too and from work.
June 18th, 2007, 11:10 AM
Again there is this turn toward blaming someone other than the perpetrator. I object to that. We, as individuals, should bear sole accountability for our actions. Its the same with those people who spill hot coffee on themselves then sue. DUH the coffee is hot. Dont freakin' spill it. Same goes with street racing. Owning the car doesnt make you guilty of racing. RACING makes you guilty of racing. Don't race. Problem solved. Blame the kid who did it and the parents who allowed it, not the video game or the car ad.
Again there is this turn toward blaming someone other than the perpetrator. I object to that. We, as individuals, should bear sole accountability for our actions. Its the same with those people who spill hot coffee on themselves then sue. DUH the coffee is hot. Dont freakin' spill it. Same goes with street racing. Owning the car doesnt make you guilty of racing. RACING makes you guilty of racing. Don't race. Problem solved. Blame the kid who did it and the parents who allowed it, not the video game or the car ad.
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,772
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June 18th, 2007, 12:35 PM
Quoting triedit
So what of responsibility in advertising?
Again there is this turn toward blaming someone other than the perpetrator. I object to that. We, as individuals, should bear sole accountability for our actions. Its the same with those people who spill hot coffee on themselves then sue. DUH the coffee is hot. Dont freakin' spill it. Same goes with street racing. Owning the car doesnt make you guilty of racing. RACING makes you guilty of racing. Don't race. Problem solved. Blame the kid who did it and the parents who allowed it, not the video game or the car ad.
June 18th, 2007, 12:43 PM
As far as Im concerned I don't think there should be much...certainly foul language and nudity should be curtailed as that is generally accepted by all to be inappropriate for children to observe in any situation. But if the advertisement is truthful, why not let it do it's job and sell the products?
The Joe Camel issue for me is a classic example. Change the world so kids don't mimic a cartoon camel. How about lets not let our children have cigarettes and the won't get hooked? Or better yet take the things off the market completely if we're that morally outraged. But blame a trademark? Puleeeez.
As far as Im concerned I don't think there should be much...certainly foul language and nudity should be curtailed as that is generally accepted by all to be inappropriate for children to observe in any situation. But if the advertisement is truthful, why not let it do it's job and sell the products?
The Joe Camel issue for me is a classic example. Change the world so kids don't mimic a cartoon camel. How about lets not let our children have cigarettes and the won't get hooked? Or better yet take the things off the market completely if we're that morally outraged. But blame a trademark? Puleeeez.
A Mad Mulligan
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June 18th, 2007, 01:33 PM
Truth as it stands now, has to only be factual within what a reasonable person would assume. Like the Pepsi Points case for the Jump Jet. Just because they say it, it doesn't have to be true if it is outlandish enough for someone to think it's not on the up and up.
As far as kids go, what's in appropriate these days? Also why wouldn't that fall under your first position of personal responsibility in that it's not the networks nor the advertisers problem to filter out what your children might see?
The Simpsons for example is not at all a kids show, yet it's scheduled constantly for the time when kids watch tv most often.
So where is this line between what is acceptable and what isn't? And when it isn't, what then?
Quoting triedit
Violence is ok?
As far as Im concerned I don't think there should be much...certainly foul language and nudity should be curtailed as that is generally accepted by all to be inappropriate for children to observe in any situation. But if the advertisement is truthful, why not let it do it's job and sell the products?
The Joe Camel issue for me is a classic example. Change the world so kids don't mimic a cartoon camel. How about lets not let our children have cigarettes and the won't get hooked? Or better yet take the things off the market completely if we're that morally outraged. But blame a trademark? Puleeeez.
The Joe Camel issue for me is a classic example. Change the world so kids don't mimic a cartoon camel. How about lets not let our children have cigarettes and the won't get hooked? Or better yet take the things off the market completely if we're that morally outraged. But blame a trademark? Puleeeez.
Truth as it stands now, has to only be factual within what a reasonable person would assume. Like the Pepsi Points case for the Jump Jet. Just because they say it, it doesn't have to be true if it is outlandish enough for someone to think it's not on the up and up.
As far as kids go, what's in appropriate these days? Also why wouldn't that fall under your first position of personal responsibility in that it's not the networks nor the advertisers problem to filter out what your children might see?
The Simpsons for example is not at all a kids show, yet it's scheduled constantly for the time when kids watch tv most often.
So where is this line between what is acceptable and what isn't? And when it isn't, what then?
Satelitte Radio Addict
Posts: 869
Location: Toronto, ON
Location: Toronto, ON
June 18th, 2007, 01:39 PM
I think the premise though that your kid is not going to see this crap somewhere is wrong. He/she is. What you have to teach is that everything you see on TV is not always true. Just yesterday my son and I were having a discussion about Peter Pan (a movie he is currently into). While Peter Pan does not contain anything overtly violent (althogh some of the ideas in it would not have made it into a movie with today's sensitivities), it does contain the concept that if you think good thoughts and jump out a window, you can fly. A concern since we live in an apartment on the 8th floor. So is the solution not to show Peter Pan to our kid? (What if he saw it at his friend's house?) For us, it is to keep reminding him that the world is not as presented on TV.
Quoting Unforgiven
I think that is one of the quirks with today's society is that nudity is considered wrong while violence is considered ok. It should really be the other way around.
Violence is ok?
Truth as it stands now, has to only be factual within what a reasonable person would assume. Like the Pepsi Points case for the Jump Jet. Just because they say it, it doesn't have to be true if it is outlandish enough for someone to think it's not on the up and up.
As far as kids go, what's in appropriate these days? Also why wouldn't that fall under your first position of personal responsibility in that it's not the networks nor the advertisers problem to filter out what your children might see?
The Simpsons for example is not at all a kids show, yet it's scheduled constantly for the time when kids watch tv most often.
So where is this line between what is acceptable and what isn't? And when it isn't, what then?
Truth as it stands now, has to only be factual within what a reasonable person would assume. Like the Pepsi Points case for the Jump Jet. Just because they say it, it doesn't have to be true if it is outlandish enough for someone to think it's not on the up and up.
As far as kids go, what's in appropriate these days? Also why wouldn't that fall under your first position of personal responsibility in that it's not the networks nor the advertisers problem to filter out what your children might see?
The Simpsons for example is not at all a kids show, yet it's scheduled constantly for the time when kids watch tv most often.
So where is this line between what is acceptable and what isn't? And when it isn't, what then?
I think the premise though that your kid is not going to see this crap somewhere is wrong. He/she is. What you have to teach is that everything you see on TV is not always true. Just yesterday my son and I were having a discussion about Peter Pan (a movie he is currently into). While Peter Pan does not contain anything overtly violent (althogh some of the ideas in it would not have made it into a movie with today's sensitivities), it does contain the concept that if you think good thoughts and jump out a window, you can fly. A concern since we live in an apartment on the 8th floor. So is the solution not to show Peter Pan to our kid? (What if he saw it at his friend's house?) For us, it is to keep reminding him that the world is not as presented on TV.
June 18th, 2007, 01:42 PM
My son watches Simpson's all the time. But we watch it with him. I don't think he's going to behave like Bart (or Homer) from simply watching a show. I don't let him watch CSI, et al because I don't think he can properly process all the things happening there. We've discussed cigarettes and although, to my chagrin I still smoke, he knows it is a bad thing. I think the parents and the individuals need to take the responsibility for what is watched and what is learned from watching, not the people that make the shows/ads.
Admittedly, we are struggling with some of that. He has a few violent video games and he like watching Ninja Turtles. He role plays fighting a little too often for my taste. But we ALSO talk about it and what the difference is between pretend and real life is. He now understands that dead is forever--that you don't get a bunch of lives for a do-over in the real world.
My son watches Simpson's all the time. But we watch it with him. I don't think he's going to behave like Bart (or Homer) from simply watching a show. I don't let him watch CSI, et al because I don't think he can properly process all the things happening there. We've discussed cigarettes and although, to my chagrin I still smoke, he knows it is a bad thing. I think the parents and the individuals need to take the responsibility for what is watched and what is learned from watching, not the people that make the shows/ads.
Admittedly, we are struggling with some of that. He has a few violent video games and he like watching Ninja Turtles. He role plays fighting a little too often for my taste. But we ALSO talk about it and what the difference is between pretend and real life is. He now understands that dead is forever--that you don't get a bunch of lives for a do-over in the real world.
Time Out
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June 18th, 2007, 01:49 PM
So unf ya still got that monte carlo with the big ole v8.
Or you squeezen into a smart car.
those things bug me...People drive me like they are sport cars. they end up in the fast lane pedal to the floor and cause everyone else to brake...and thats on the street for crying out loud.
So unf ya still got that monte carlo with the big ole v8.
Or you squeezen into a smart car.
those things bug me...People drive me like they are sport cars. they end up in the fast lane pedal to the floor and cause everyone else to brake...and thats on the street for crying out loud.
A Mad Mulligan
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June 18th, 2007, 05:26 PM
I don't think you can keep anything from kids these days. But it would be nice to be able to have somewhere that it isn't blasted at them constantly. I've started pre-recording the tv that I watch now. I like to zip through the commercials and just watch what I want to watch. Now and again if I'm talking with my wife or daughter while they are watching something, I get the blitz from the tv commercials. I don't know maybe I'm a little less desensitized to it now but it sure does play to the lowest common denominator.
We could probably do a lot better than that but when anyone opens their mouth to say anything about it, no one wants to listen.
Quoting IdRatherBeSkiing
I agree with your first premise. I don't know why that came about. I guess because it's been a "man's world" so long that this is just another hold over from the past.
I think that is one of the quirks with today's society is that nudity is considered wrong while violence is considered ok. It should really be the other way around.
I think the premise though that your kid is not going to see this crap somewhere is wrong. He/she is. What you have to teach is that everything you see on TV is not always true. Just yesterday my son and I were having a discussion about Peter Pan (a movie he is currently into). While Peter Pan does not contain anything overtly violent (althogh some of the ideas in it would not have made it into a movie with today's sensitivities), it does contain the concept that if you think good thoughts and jump out a window, you can fly. A concern since we live in an apartment on the 8th floor. So is the solution not to show Peter Pan to our kid? (What if he saw it at his friend's house?) For us, it is to keep reminding him that the world is not as presented on TV.
I think the premise though that your kid is not going to see this crap somewhere is wrong. He/she is. What you have to teach is that everything you see on TV is not always true. Just yesterday my son and I were having a discussion about Peter Pan (a movie he is currently into). While Peter Pan does not contain anything overtly violent (althogh some of the ideas in it would not have made it into a movie with today's sensitivities), it does contain the concept that if you think good thoughts and jump out a window, you can fly. A concern since we live in an apartment on the 8th floor. So is the solution not to show Peter Pan to our kid? (What if he saw it at his friend's house?) For us, it is to keep reminding him that the world is not as presented on TV.
I don't think you can keep anything from kids these days. But it would be nice to be able to have somewhere that it isn't blasted at them constantly. I've started pre-recording the tv that I watch now. I like to zip through the commercials and just watch what I want to watch. Now and again if I'm talking with my wife or daughter while they are watching something, I get the blitz from the tv commercials. I don't know maybe I'm a little less desensitized to it now but it sure does play to the lowest common denominator.
We could probably do a lot better than that but when anyone opens their mouth to say anything about it, no one wants to listen.
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,772
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June 18th, 2007, 05:31 PM
Quoting triedit
Sure, and it's the way parenting is supposed to be done. Discovery with the explanation brings enlightenment through reason. But how many times does the tv become the babysitter? While watching the Simpsons, how many commercials get blasted at him while waiting for the show to come back on and what is the theme? Everyone knows kids love the Simpsons. It's cause they are ****in funny. So if everyone knows the Simpsons are going to be watched by kids, then do they have a responsibility to alter their activities when advertising during that show?
My son watches Simpson's all the time. But we watch it with him. I don't think he's going to behave like Bart (or Homer) from simply watching a show. I don't let him watch CSI, et al because I don't think he can properly process all the things happening there. We've discussed cigarettes and although, to my chagrin I still smoke, he knows it is a bad thing. I think the parents and the individuals need to take the responsibility for what is watched and what is learned from watching, not the people that make the shows/ads.
Admittedly, we are struggling with some of that. He has a few violent video games and he like watching Ninja Turtles. He role plays fighting a little too often for my taste. But we ALSO talk about it and what the difference is between pretend and real life is. He now understands that dead is forever--that you don't get a bunch of lives for a do-over in the real world.
Admittedly, we are struggling with some of that. He has a few violent video games and he like watching Ninja Turtles. He role plays fighting a little too often for my taste. But we ALSO talk about it and what the difference is between pretend and real life is. He now understands that dead is forever--that you don't get a bunch of lives for a do-over in the real world.
A Mad Mulligan
Posts: 2,772
Videos: 3
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
Videos: 3
Location: The Moonsine Cafe
June 18th, 2007, 05:46 PM
The tv is more of a babysitter to more kids than daycare. I bet some kids know more from tv than they do school. What all parents should do and what most parents do are two different things.
Quoting triedit
Yeah, and murder is against the law. So we're all nice and safe.
No. We as parents have an obligation to act as translators and moral compasses and not allow the tv to be a babysitter.
The tv is more of a babysitter to more kids than daycare. I bet some kids know more from tv than they do school. What all parents should do and what most parents do are two different things.
June 18th, 2007, 07:45 PM
It's not my job, as a citizen, to parent other people's kids. It's not my responsibility, as a carmaker/advertiser to ensure they don't street race.
Quoting Unforgiven
That's very true. But it seems counter intuitive to punish the children alone in these cases. If Jimbob Jr has a fast car and gets charged with street racing, his parents should share some of the accountability imho. I find it very hard to believe that a kid who worked hard for his car, insurance, and gas and kept his grades reasonable and has a good relationship with his parents is going to be out street racing. Im not suggesting that the parents bear the sole accountability--those kids who street race know its wrong--but they do have some part in it, if only allowing them to be out after 11 for example.
Yeah, and murder is against the law. So we're all nice and safe.
The tv is more of a babysitter to more kids than daycare. I bet some kids know more from tv than they do school. What all parents should do and what most parents do are two different things.
The tv is more of a babysitter to more kids than daycare. I bet some kids know more from tv than they do school. What all parents should do and what most parents do are two different things.
It's not my job, as a citizen, to parent other people's kids. It's not my responsibility, as a carmaker/advertiser to ensure they don't street race.
