Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604 
December 4th, 2007, 09:01 AM
Hi Jimshort!
We could look at the current world situation several ways…
Osama Bin Laden is a fundamentalist who encourages the “faithful” to jihad, becauase it’s easier to convince anyone that their best interests are served by killing the ‘infidel’ when the infidel offers legitimacy to armed conflict.
Maybe you haven’t heard about the young woman who was gang raped and sentenced to lashes and a prison sentence… Or the British nanny who was detained for allowing children in her school room to name a stuffed toy “Mohammad”…
I’ve heard that the Bin Laden family is very rich, and that the Al Saud family are even wealthier than the Bin Ladens’….
“Saudi Arabia's proven reserves of petroleum exceed 250 billion barrels. Annual production in the early 1990s was some 3 billion barrels of oil, more than any other country; output rose sharply after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. Saudi Arabia is the world's leading oil exporter, with petroleum revenues accounting for about 90 percent of all exports.”
“The Government's human rights record remained poor. Citizens have neither the right nor the legal means to change their government. Security forces continued to abuse detainees and prisoners, arbitrarily arrest and detain persons, and hold them in incommunicado detention. In addition there were allegations that security forces committed torture. On October 1, the Council of Ministers approved a new law regarding punitive measures that would forbid harming detainees and to allow those accused of crimes to hire a lawyer or legal agent. The law became effective in November; however, at year's end, there were no reports of its implementation. Prolonged detention without charge is a problem. Security forces committed such abuses, in contradiction to the law, but with the acquiescence of the Government. The Mutawwa'in continued to intimidate, abuse, and detain citizens and foreigners. Most trials are closed, and defendants usually appear before judges without legal counsel. The Government infringes on citizens' privacy rights. The Government prohibits or restricts freedom of speech, the press, assembly, association, religion, and movement. However, during the year, the Government continued to tolerate a wider range of debate and criticism in the press concerning domestic issues. Other continuing problems included discrimination and violence against women, discrimination against ethnic and religious minorities, and strict limitations on worker rights.”
“Oil revenues account for approximately 55 percent of the GDP and 80 percent of government income.”
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/nea/8296.htm
North American appetite for petroleum products has funded the Saudi government and many others. The economic system of North America can be accurately characterized as petroleum dependent since, the wisdom of wealthy industrialists like the Rockerfellers and the Fords shaped the economies of the United States and Canada.
Millions of people throughout the Middle East have suffered at the hands of monarchies and dictatorships that have been funded by the consumers of North America. It didn’t matter that oppressive regimes exercised totalitarian measures on the citizens of these nations, they are after all, half a world away and how they treat their own citizens is their own business….
That a religion encouraging death be regarded as the “just-reward” for non-believers is the ancient underpinning tribal genesis of families that rose to power in the Middle East through satisfying the appetites of North Americans.
Let me put this into perspective for you….
Pick a thug, any thug….
Pay him billions upon billions of dollars to satisfy your appetite for “X”, while he’s orchestrating the subjugation of his people under a totalitarian yoke as described earlier…
Ignore the foreseeable consequences of building this thugs wealth beyond imagination while he’s driven by the message that “the infidel must die”…
Doesn’t matter…. The Standard Oil companies, the Exxon middle-men, the conditioning to regard “four wheel freedom” as entitlement of every man woman and child in North America is after all, just “business” and if those cubic meteres of currency end up funding torture and radical fundamentalism somewhere in the world….well, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles….
But wait! Take the lands of the Palestinians and divide that land while moving in an occupation force and system of government that relegates Palestinians to second-class citizenship….
Yes I know, no big deal…
If the suicide bombers and the armed conflicts in and around Israel hadn’t happened, what would all the newspapers of the world have had to print for the past 60 years!?
If the animosity and hatred that is at the very heart of the Semite tribes didn’t provide an easy avenue to the North American military-industrial complex for increasing the profits of defense and arms industries in America and Canada, then wouldn’t they simply have purchased what they wanted from the Russians or the Chinese…anyway…?
September 11/2001…..
If the Saudis involved in this little bit of entertaining foreign diplomacy had been Evangelical or Baptist or Catholic, we know these people could never have committed this atrocity….right?
No you’re right Jimshort…..it’s not our fault….it’s never our fault so I wonder why so many people are upset about Somalia or East Timor, Rwanda or any of a dozen conflicts that have emerged through political practices and economic “interests” of Canada and America?….
Silly rabbit, we’re not responsible for what happens anywhere in the world….
Hi Jimshort!
We could look at the current world situation several ways…
Osama Bin Laden is a fundamentalist who encourages the “faithful” to jihad, becauase it’s easier to convince anyone that their best interests are served by killing the ‘infidel’ when the infidel offers legitimacy to armed conflict.
Maybe you haven’t heard about the young woman who was gang raped and sentenced to lashes and a prison sentence… Or the British nanny who was detained for allowing children in her school room to name a stuffed toy “Mohammad”…
I’ve heard that the Bin Laden family is very rich, and that the Al Saud family are even wealthier than the Bin Ladens’….
“Saudi Arabia's proven reserves of petroleum exceed 250 billion barrels. Annual production in the early 1990s was some 3 billion barrels of oil, more than any other country; output rose sharply after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. Saudi Arabia is the world's leading oil exporter, with petroleum revenues accounting for about 90 percent of all exports.”
“The Government's human rights record remained poor. Citizens have neither the right nor the legal means to change their government. Security forces continued to abuse detainees and prisoners, arbitrarily arrest and detain persons, and hold them in incommunicado detention. In addition there were allegations that security forces committed torture. On October 1, the Council of Ministers approved a new law regarding punitive measures that would forbid harming detainees and to allow those accused of crimes to hire a lawyer or legal agent. The law became effective in November; however, at year's end, there were no reports of its implementation. Prolonged detention without charge is a problem. Security forces committed such abuses, in contradiction to the law, but with the acquiescence of the Government. The Mutawwa'in continued to intimidate, abuse, and detain citizens and foreigners. Most trials are closed, and defendants usually appear before judges without legal counsel. The Government infringes on citizens' privacy rights. The Government prohibits or restricts freedom of speech, the press, assembly, association, religion, and movement. However, during the year, the Government continued to tolerate a wider range of debate and criticism in the press concerning domestic issues. Other continuing problems included discrimination and violence against women, discrimination against ethnic and religious minorities, and strict limitations on worker rights.”
“Oil revenues account for approximately 55 percent of the GDP and 80 percent of government income.”
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/nea/8296.htm
North American appetite for petroleum products has funded the Saudi government and many others. The economic system of North America can be accurately characterized as petroleum dependent since, the wisdom of wealthy industrialists like the Rockerfellers and the Fords shaped the economies of the United States and Canada.
Millions of people throughout the Middle East have suffered at the hands of monarchies and dictatorships that have been funded by the consumers of North America. It didn’t matter that oppressive regimes exercised totalitarian measures on the citizens of these nations, they are after all, half a world away and how they treat their own citizens is their own business….
That a religion encouraging death be regarded as the “just-reward” for non-believers is the ancient underpinning tribal genesis of families that rose to power in the Middle East through satisfying the appetites of North Americans.
Let me put this into perspective for you….
Pick a thug, any thug….
Pay him billions upon billions of dollars to satisfy your appetite for “X”, while he’s orchestrating the subjugation of his people under a totalitarian yoke as described earlier…
Ignore the foreseeable consequences of building this thugs wealth beyond imagination while he’s driven by the message that “the infidel must die”…
Doesn’t matter…. The Standard Oil companies, the Exxon middle-men, the conditioning to regard “four wheel freedom” as entitlement of every man woman and child in North America is after all, just “business” and if those cubic meteres of currency end up funding torture and radical fundamentalism somewhere in the world….well, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles….
But wait! Take the lands of the Palestinians and divide that land while moving in an occupation force and system of government that relegates Palestinians to second-class citizenship….
Yes I know, no big deal…
If the suicide bombers and the armed conflicts in and around Israel hadn’t happened, what would all the newspapers of the world have had to print for the past 60 years!?
If the animosity and hatred that is at the very heart of the Semite tribes didn’t provide an easy avenue to the North American military-industrial complex for increasing the profits of defense and arms industries in America and Canada, then wouldn’t they simply have purchased what they wanted from the Russians or the Chinese…anyway…?
September 11/2001…..
If the Saudis involved in this little bit of entertaining foreign diplomacy had been Evangelical or Baptist or Catholic, we know these people could never have committed this atrocity….right?
No you’re right Jimshort…..it’s not our fault….it’s never our fault so I wonder why so many people are upset about Somalia or East Timor, Rwanda or any of a dozen conflicts that have emerged through political practices and economic “interests” of Canada and America?….
Silly rabbit, we’re not responsible for what happens anywhere in the world….
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,459
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Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
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December 4th, 2007, 09:36 AM
profitpowermoneygodprofitmoneypower
Something like that but not exactly.
Quoting dancing-loon
It's good for the economy and makes money and keeps Canadians working in the arms industry and if we defeat them over there we won't have to repulse them off our beaches when they have completed thier invasion fleets.
We are also BORROWING tanks from Germany, so we can fight for Mr. Bush in Afghanistan!!!
Can anyone tell me WHY we are fighting and killing Talibans in Afghanistan?
Can anyone tell me WHY we are fighting and killing Talibans in Afghanistan?
profitpowermoneygodprofitmoneypowerSomething like that but not exactly.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,459
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
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Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
December 4th, 2007, 09:42 AM
You could start with the Vikings, if you're really interested. And forget about thinking from the common mans perspective which count for nothing in this world most of the time.
Quoting iARTthere4iam
If I have to explain to you why war makes money, it means you have not read any history. The most efficient means to profit is theft. Military adventure is the most efficient means to effect theft.
Actually "friendly" makes bucket-loads of money. War is expensive and not productive. Our relationship with the US makes loads of money as does our relationship with countries all over the world. How would going to war make money? You keep stating that we go to war for profit. Please explain.
You could start with the Vikings, if you're really interested. And forget about thinking from the common mans perspective which count for nothing in this world most of the time.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,834
Location: in town
Location: in town
December 4th, 2007, 04:32 PM
WE COULD PAY OUR NATIONAL DEBT DOWN and save tons of interest money!!!
Why does this not appeal to our politicians?
Quoting darkbeaver
No, dark beaver, I don't think it is good for the economy and it doesn't make money either... it costs tons of money!!! Read here:
It's good for the economy and makes money and keeps Canadians working in the arms industry and if we defeat them over there we won't have to repulse them off our beaches when they have completed thier invasion fleets. profitpowermoneygodprofitmoneypower
Something like that but not exactly.
profitpowermoneygodprofitmoneypowerSomething like that but not exactly.
Quote:
Just think how many windmills and solar systems we could build with that much money!!
...what is the cost of the war in Afghanistan to Canadians? The deaths of 71 soldiers and a diplomat are fairly well known? The financial costs are less well known. According to one study published by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, the "full cost" of the Afghan war to Canada will be $7.2 billion by March 2008. This works out to more than $100 million every month. What could Canada do with $7.2 billion dollars? How could this money benefit our health care system, to help alleviate poverty, provide tax relief or be used in the fight against global warming?
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/hom.../05/01931.html
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/hom.../05/01931.html
WE COULD PAY OUR NATIONAL DEBT DOWN and save tons of interest money!!!
Why does this not appeal to our politicians?
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,459
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
December 4th, 2007, 04:51 PM
I was being sarcastic in previous posts sorry to have mislead you, it won't happen again sorry
Quoting dancing-loon
If it costs lots of money it's good for thier economy (the bankers) of course what you say and suggest is correct IMO. They aren't our politicians, they belong to the bankers.
No, dark beaver, I don't think it is good for the economy and it doesn't make money either... it costs tons of money!!! Read here:
Just think how many windmills and solar systems we could build with that much money!!
WE COULD PAY OUR NATIONAL DEBT DOWN and save tons of interest money!!!
Why does this not appeal to our politicians?
Just think how many windmills and solar systems we could build with that much money!!
WE COULD PAY OUR NATIONAL DEBT DOWN and save tons of interest money!!!
Why does this not appeal to our politicians?
I was being sarcastic in previous posts sorry to have mislead you, it won't happen again sorry
Bright Spark
Posts: 476
Location: Zurich
Location: Zurich
December 4th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Mikey, "No you’re right Jimshort…..it’s not our fault….it’s never our fault so I wonder why so many people are upset about Somalia or East Timor, Rwanda or any of a dozen conflicts that have emerged through political practices and economic “interests” of Canada and America?…."
Howdy Mickey! Actually I said that it wasn't MY fault. And like maybe anyway, it's never my fault, but you still wonder why the neighbours are upset about a dozen conflicts like Rwanda that were caused by Canada. Whoa!
Yes, I caused Rwanda. but I was just havin' some fun. Izzat so wrong?
You'd likely agree that the U.S tied its own hands when it developed a dependancy on the assets of primitives. Now that we have the mess, while we should not repeat error, we must focus on the future. Just because we fed and bred these monsters doesn't mean that we don't have to kill them. But the long term solution is to disengage, not invade. In the meantime we have the grand experiments of Iraq and Afghanistan, colonialism without the colony. It reminds me of how many psycologists it takes to change a light bulb - only one- but the light bulb has to want to change. It's looking like this is not realistic. Everybody is trying out 'invasion light', when what they may need is unconditional surrender or to execise distancing and containment, and nothing in between.
As an accomplished arm chair general, I'd say the lessons learned this early in the 21st century will bear fruit, but they are bitter lessons so far. When are things going to get sweet? When the UN is reformed and the free world speaks as one good bully.
Mikey, "No you’re right Jimshort…..it’s not our fault….it’s never our fault so I wonder why so many people are upset about Somalia or East Timor, Rwanda or any of a dozen conflicts that have emerged through political practices and economic “interests” of Canada and America?…."
Howdy Mickey! Actually I said that it wasn't MY fault. And like maybe anyway, it's never my fault, but you still wonder why the neighbours are upset about a dozen conflicts like Rwanda that were caused by Canada. Whoa!
Yes, I caused Rwanda. but I was just havin' some fun. Izzat so wrong?
You'd likely agree that the U.S tied its own hands when it developed a dependancy on the assets of primitives. Now that we have the mess, while we should not repeat error, we must focus on the future. Just because we fed and bred these monsters doesn't mean that we don't have to kill them. But the long term solution is to disengage, not invade. In the meantime we have the grand experiments of Iraq and Afghanistan, colonialism without the colony. It reminds me of how many psycologists it takes to change a light bulb - only one- but the light bulb has to want to change. It's looking like this is not realistic. Everybody is trying out 'invasion light', when what they may need is unconditional surrender or to execise distancing and containment, and nothing in between.
As an accomplished arm chair general, I'd say the lessons learned this early in the 21st century will bear fruit, but they are bitter lessons so far. When are things going to get sweet? When the UN is reformed and the free world speaks as one good bully.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,834
Location: in town
Location: in town
December 4th, 2007, 05:32 PM
Please, dark beaver, don't apologize! It is me who has a long wire and doesn't catch on right away.
Generally, yes, a war generates and stimulates the economy, because so much has to be fixed again afterwards. Plus, as you mentioned earlier, the THEFT that goes on in a war is worthwhile. So, do you think Canada gets some of that opium from Afghanistan???
Please, dark beaver, don't apologize! It is me who has a long wire and doesn't catch on right away.
Generally, yes, a war generates and stimulates the economy, because so much has to be fixed again afterwards. Plus, as you mentioned earlier, the THEFT that goes on in a war is worthwhile. So, do you think Canada gets some of that opium from Afghanistan???
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,459
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
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December 4th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Invasion light? Regional and municipal indiginous warfare is key to developement of our arms industry. Why rely on forigne conflicts when we have so many unemployed here at home? We're not paying attention to developements and the latest thinking in the oil bussiness. The eastern provinces should annex any hydro-carbon bearing provinces directly under the trust of Ahtowwaaa.
If we fight over our oil instead of thier oil we could avoid the transportation and logistical expence of an unpopular forigne war.
Those munitions and troops could be far more cost effectively spent in this country.
Invasion light? Regional and municipal indiginous warfare is key to developement of our arms industry. Why rely on forigne conflicts when we have so many unemployed here at home? We're not paying attention to developements and the latest thinking in the oil bussiness. The eastern provinces should annex any hydro-carbon bearing provinces directly under the trust of Ahtowwaaa.
If we fight over our oil instead of thier oil we could avoid the transportation and logistical expence of an unpopular forigne war.
Those munitions and troops could be far more cost effectively spent in this country.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,459
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
December 4th, 2007, 05:45 PM
Quoting dancing-loon
No Canadian would smoke opium in Afghanistan while they're on duty. You can get the seeds at Canadian tire. War is good for the economy and that's why we fight and kill and die.
Please, dark beaver, don't apologize! It is me who has a long wire and doesn't catch on right away.
Generally, yes, a war generates and stimulates the economy, because so much has to be fixed again afterwards. Plus, as you mentioned earlier, the THEFT that goes on in a war is worthwhile. So, do you think Canada gets some of that opium from Afghanistan???
Generally, yes, a war generates and stimulates the economy, because so much has to be fixed again afterwards. Plus, as you mentioned earlier, the THEFT that goes on in a war is worthwhile. So, do you think Canada gets some of that opium from Afghanistan???
Clever Clogs
Posts: 510
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
December 4th, 2007, 09:02 PM
Quoting darkbeaver
And would I have to explain to you that a capitalist can make many times more money. For example I could steal your wallet. Or if I really was interested in money I would sell you a McDonalds hamburger. And if you were sufficiently happy with the burger you would return and empty your wallet happily every week for years and I would get very rich. Robbery is limited it generates little wealth, capitalism generates great amounts of riches.
If I have to explain to you why war makes money, it means you have not read any history. The most efficient means to profit is theft. Military adventure is the most efficient means to effect theft.
You could start with the Vikings, if you're really interested. And forget about thinking from the common mans perspective which count for nothing in this world most of the time.
You could start with the Vikings, if you're really interested. And forget about thinking from the common mans perspective which count for nothing in this world most of the time.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 575
December 11th, 2007, 01:11 AM
Its just that it is not very sustainable nor is it economically friendly [not that communism and mercantilism mean any better, both are equally evil]. At best, maybe err...two centuries?
Our food production has reached its peak..and..er..demand for refined oil finally went over the roof and is at trouble. Poverty is spreading like epidemic in Africa...it hasn't GOT any better. More refugee, more natural disaster, more uncertainty of oil production & price.
Yes, capitalism works until it hits the wall.
Not that I have "any" better plan l o l
I wanna live luxuriously you see! And be happy, just like a fine-little capitalist~
We all have a bit of capitalist in us...so don't worry, it works really good.
Quote:
True, true, so true.
capitalism generates great amounts of riches.
Its just that it is not very sustainable nor is it economically friendly [not that communism and mercantilism mean any better, both are equally evil]. At best, maybe err...two centuries?
Our food production has reached its peak..and..er..demand for refined oil finally went over the roof and is at trouble. Poverty is spreading like epidemic in Africa...it hasn't GOT any better. More refugee, more natural disaster, more uncertainty of oil production & price.
Yes, capitalism works until it hits the wall.
Not that I have "any" better plan l o l
I wanna live luxuriously you see! And be happy, just like a fine-little capitalist~
We all have a bit of capitalist in us...so don't worry, it works really good.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 510
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
December 11th, 2007, 01:47 AM
So, Africa is suffering from an overabundance of Capitalism? I would have to disagree.
The US, Canada, Britain, Japan, Australia are a bit better examples of Capitalist societies than the continent of Africa (Zimbabwe, anyone?).
Our food production has not reached anywhere near maximum. Have you ever heard of a green house? It is a marvelous food making system. Ditto drip irrigation, ditto potatoes. Don't get fooled again.
Quoting YoungJoonKim
True, true, so true.
Its just that it is not very sustainable nor is it economically friendly [not that communism and mercantilism mean any better, both are equally evil]. At best, maybe err...two centuries?
Our food production has reached its peak..and..er..demand for refined oil finally went over the roof and is at trouble. Poverty is spreading like epidemic in Africa...it hasn't GOT any better. More refugee, more natural disaster, more uncertainty of oil production & price.
Yes, capitalism works until it hits the wall.
Not that I have "any" better plan l o l
I wanna live luxuriously you see! And be happy, just like a fine-little capitalist~
We all have a bit of capitalist in us...so don't worry, it works really good.
Its just that it is not very sustainable nor is it economically friendly [not that communism and mercantilism mean any better, both are equally evil]. At best, maybe err...two centuries?
Our food production has reached its peak..and..er..demand for refined oil finally went over the roof and is at trouble. Poverty is spreading like epidemic in Africa...it hasn't GOT any better. More refugee, more natural disaster, more uncertainty of oil production & price.
Yes, capitalism works until it hits the wall.
Not that I have "any" better plan l o l
I wanna live luxuriously you see! And be happy, just like a fine-little capitalist~
We all have a bit of capitalist in us...so don't worry, it works really good.
So, Africa is suffering from an overabundance of Capitalism? I would have to disagree.
The US, Canada, Britain, Japan, Australia are a bit better examples of Capitalist societies than the continent of Africa (Zimbabwe, anyone?).
Our food production has not reached anywhere near maximum. Have you ever heard of a green house? It is a marvelous food making system. Ditto drip irrigation, ditto potatoes. Don't get fooled again.
Bright Spark
Posts: 476
Location: Zurich
Location: Zurich
December 13th, 2007, 08:53 AM
Greetings to the young capitalist joon from capitalist everywhere! Kim on!
YJK, "Its just that it is not very sustainable nor is it economically friendly [not that communism and mercantilism mean any better, both are equally evil]. At best, maybe err...two centuries?"
Try forever.
YJK, "Our food production has reached its peak.."
No.
YJK, "and... oil... trouble. Poverty is spreading...More refugee, more natural disaster, more uncertainty of oil production & price.
Yes, capitalism works until it hits the wall."
Capitalism is the only system that ever was and always will be. Barter was capitalism. Communism is centralized capitalism. Mecantilism was capitalism. So, what are you on about? Wealth is spreading. Democracy is spreading. Peace is spreading. Civilization is advancing. Capitalism cannot be spread, it can only be controlled and adulterated.
You just love oil too much. Get rid of that Cadillac and buy a clean little car that uses half the fuel. Mix a few success stories with your bad news diet. See the big pattern and direction of the human race. Tyrants oppose progress, because progress is against them. This battle will wage on for perhaps a thousand years, before 100 million years of peace, for we are young and only in the pains of birth.
Greetings to the young capitalist joon from capitalist everywhere! Kim on!
YJK, "Its just that it is not very sustainable nor is it economically friendly [not that communism and mercantilism mean any better, both are equally evil]. At best, maybe err...two centuries?"
Try forever.
YJK, "Our food production has reached its peak.."
No.
YJK, "and... oil... trouble. Poverty is spreading...More refugee, more natural disaster, more uncertainty of oil production & price.
Yes, capitalism works until it hits the wall."
Capitalism is the only system that ever was and always will be. Barter was capitalism. Communism is centralized capitalism. Mecantilism was capitalism. So, what are you on about? Wealth is spreading. Democracy is spreading. Peace is spreading. Civilization is advancing. Capitalism cannot be spread, it can only be controlled and adulterated.
You just love oil too much. Get rid of that Cadillac and buy a clean little car that uses half the fuel. Mix a few success stories with your bad news diet. See the big pattern and direction of the human race. Tyrants oppose progress, because progress is against them. This battle will wage on for perhaps a thousand years, before 100 million years of peace, for we are young and only in the pains of birth.
