February 6th, 2007, 04:55 PM
Quoting selfactivated
I exersise mine daily. <thats not exorsise>
Ideals are one thing, Hate Mongering is another. Whats wrong with freedom of choice?
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February 6th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Quoting eh1eh
lol I try to too. In my opinion.....I know here we go again........A woman has a choice, its THEIR choice. In all the experiences that Ive had Ive never chose abortion BUT it was MY choice.
I exersise mine daily. <thats not exorsise>
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February 6th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Quoting marygaspe
Right. We always have. Read the rules for correct behaviour in Leviticus and Deuteronomy lately? Many of them would get you into serious trouble with the law these days. Stoning adulterers and rebellious children to death, murdering people who work on Sundays... Our laws don't come from biblical teachings and they never have, we pick what suits us based on existing social conditions and mores. Your claim is just a post hoc rationalization.
As it suits society, right? Every law we have in the west arrived to us through biblical teachings, so now we are to pick those things we want or don't want, right?
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February 6th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by marygaspe
As it suits society, right? Every law we have in the west arrived to us through biblical teachings, so now we are to pick those things we want or don't want, right?
Have you ever considered that the bible might actually contain things which are outdated and/or wrong?
Originally Posted by marygaspe
As it suits society, right? Every law we have in the west arrived to us through biblical teachings, so now we are to pick those things we want or don't want, right?
Have you ever considered that the bible might actually contain things which are outdated and/or wrong?
February 6th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Quoting Rawisbetter!
So what in Gods name gives you the right to tell a woman what she can or can not do with her body???
It's pretty obvious that I'm a guy.
Quoting marygaspe
I wouldn't doubt you dissagree, I have you seen your true colours exposed in your own cruel words. If it isn't condoned by the Church, it should be banned. Welcome to the Christian fascist state.
I strongly, but strongly disgaree. I think it is immoral and out and out murder. It is a cultural excuse to be sexually active. I believe in old fashioned advice my mother gave me way back in 62-63 when she had the "talk" with me, if you don't want a baby, keep your legs closed.
Quoting marygaspe
It's only immoral and or a sin in your eyes and the eyes of the indoctrinated members or your faith. You do not control, nor do you have the right to, the rest of the country, thank your God.
Because it is immoral, it is a sin and it is murder..are these enough reasons for you?
Quoting marygaspe
Yes most laws are based on Christian fundamental ideologies, but they have been addapted to fit an evolving world and that is a good thing. If we didn't evolve our laws and ourselves, we would be stuck with the Churches views on the flat planet, the sun orbiting the earth and so on. But don't let progress get in the way of your intolerance.
As it suits society, right? Every law we have in the west arrived to us through biblical teachings, so now we are to pick those things we want or don't want, right?
Quoting m_levesque
Look, no one posts anything anti Church until the resident religious spammer goes and posts intolerance filled pieces on others religions, or others come along and start talking about subjugating womens rights, with all the Catholic Zealots following along blindly bleating like the Church has trained it good sheeple.
It's always like this with anti-Church people, they scream about the intolerance of the Church and refuse too acknowledge their own intolerance.
Quoting m_levesque
Right on Rene, it is none of your business what anyone else does. If you are so religious and so sure God exists, then you should believe that "murdered" child is innocent and gets an automatic pass through the Pearly gates. The mother a one way trip down. If so, this isn't enough for you? You want to force your religious views on her? How fascist of you!!!
How much is none of our business in Canada? Is it none of our business if a mother murders her day old baby because she changed her mind?
Quoting selfactivated
Yes it was your choice, is your choice and by God will always be your choice.
lol I try to too. In my opinion.....I know here we go again........A woman has a choice, its THEIR choice. In all the experiences that Ive had Ive never chose abortion BUT it was MY choice.
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February 6th, 2007, 05:14 PM
hear hear old chap
hear hear old chap
February 6th, 2007, 05:15 PM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
I really hate to say this Dex, you know you always get my props, but the Magna Carta the Grandfather of our Constitution and The Draconian laws of Kebec, were born of Christion common law and such. I'm not sure on the exact amount and to what extent, I really wish ITN got in these topics sometimes, lol. He'ld know. But I would put money on I'm right here. Although it hurts to admit it.
Right. We always have. Read the rules for correct behaviour in Leviticus and Deuteronomy lately? Many of them would get you into serious trouble with the law these days. Stoning adulterers and rebellious children to death, murdering people who work on Sundays... Our laws don't come from biblical teachings and they never have, we pick what suits us based on existing social conditions and mores. Your claim is just a post hoc rationalization.
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February 6th, 2007, 05:26 PM
Yes Bear, I agree, mostly, I'm not suggesting Christianity's had no influence on the law, obviously it has, but it's not the only, or even the primary, source. On the matter of abortion specifically, the Bible is almost entirely silent, and nowhere does it explicitly forbid it. There are something over 600 prescriptions for correct behaviour listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and no nominally Christian nation has implemented any of them in law.
Yes Bear, I agree, mostly, I'm not suggesting Christianity's had no influence on the law, obviously it has, but it's not the only, or even the primary, source. On the matter of abortion specifically, the Bible is almost entirely silent, and nowhere does it explicitly forbid it. There are something over 600 prescriptions for correct behaviour listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and no nominally Christian nation has implemented any of them in law.
February 6th, 2007, 05:36 PM
Good on ya Dex. You always get my props!!!
Quoting Dexter Sinister
And for good reason!!!
Yes Bear, I agree, mostly, I'm not suggesting Christianity's had no influence on the law, obviously it has, but it's not the only, or even the primary, source. On the matter of abortion specifically, the Bible is almost entirely silent, and nowhere does it explicitly forbid it. There are something over 600 prescriptions for correct behaviour listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and no nominally Christian nation has implemented any of them in law.
Good on ya Dex. You always get my props!!!
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February 6th, 2007, 06:44 PM
MaryGaspe
Your mother's words to you about keeping your legs closed were appropriate for you at the time....but there are many other scenarious you have omitted regarding the actual creation of a child....
Rape, incest, gang bang, intoxication, drug overdose, mental incapability, and so on. Many children are created through "not so tidy" circumstances. This does not negate the right of the child to be born, but the mother still must have some "rights" as well... if she can bear the decision she might make.
Abortion is often the "solution" for many of the women abused already who cannot comprehend the concept of bearing a child from their experience.... whether it is right or wrong... we cannot judge
anyone for their decision. They alone bear the burden.
Many women come from the abortion decision with a life-long burden which they finally are able to understand and articulate - not that it frees them from the burden, but it does make the burden more
easily carried.... no woman is left unscarred.... even at the most cruel of times for her....
Be gentle in your judgment.
MaryGaspe
Your mother's words to you about keeping your legs closed were appropriate for you at the time....but there are many other scenarious you have omitted regarding the actual creation of a child....
Rape, incest, gang bang, intoxication, drug overdose, mental incapability, and so on. Many children are created through "not so tidy" circumstances. This does not negate the right of the child to be born, but the mother still must have some "rights" as well... if she can bear the decision she might make.
Abortion is often the "solution" for many of the women abused already who cannot comprehend the concept of bearing a child from their experience.... whether it is right or wrong... we cannot judge
anyone for their decision. They alone bear the burden.
Many women come from the abortion decision with a life-long burden which they finally are able to understand and articulate - not that it frees them from the burden, but it does make the burden more
easily carried.... no woman is left unscarred.... even at the most cruel of times for her....
Be gentle in your judgment.
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February 6th, 2007, 06:51 PM
" no woman is left unscarred"
And just in case you cared, for at least some of the men involved, there is always a doubt about whether it was the right decision or not....every human being second guesses their decisions. Even when you're sure that you made the right decision in the circumstances, you sometimes wonder later how the world would have been different.
But we all have to make decisions every day that could change our lives, whether it is to drink and drive, or to eat a sandwich. Either of those decisions, too, could radically change many lives.
" no woman is left unscarred"
And just in case you cared, for at least some of the men involved, there is always a doubt about whether it was the right decision or not....every human being second guesses their decisions. Even when you're sure that you made the right decision in the circumstances, you sometimes wonder later how the world would have been different.
But we all have to make decisions every day that could change our lives, whether it is to drink and drive, or to eat a sandwich. Either of those decisions, too, could radically change many lives.
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February 6th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Quoting TenPenny
I care and I do know. Please forgive us for not acknowledging the other siide of this.
" no woman is left unscarred"
And just in case you cared, for at least some of the men involved, there is always a doubt about whether it was the right decision or not....every human being second guesses their decisions. Even when you're sure that you made the right decision in the circumstances, you sometimes wonder later how the world would have been different.
But we all have to make decisions every day that could change our lives, whether it is to drink and drive, or to eat a sandwich. Either of those decisions, too, could radically change many lives.
And just in case you cared, for at least some of the men involved, there is always a doubt about whether it was the right decision or not....every human being second guesses their decisions. Even when you're sure that you made the right decision in the circumstances, you sometimes wonder later how the world would have been different.
But we all have to make decisions every day that could change our lives, whether it is to drink and drive, or to eat a sandwich. Either of those decisions, too, could radically change many lives.
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February 6th, 2007, 07:00 PM
TenPenny
Should I apologize? I wonder. The point I made in my message was many women have no choice when they are impregnated.... by the examples I gave.
By all means consider the men in the scenario....but not in the context I was pointing out.... and whether you felt the great need to make that remark:
I do care.... more than you will ever be called upon to demonstrate.
If a woman had the support of a man who wished she carry a child to term even under the most terrible of circumstances..... she may of course change her mind with that added dimension of love which could alter the circumstances....
Life isn't fair however and many abortions are left to the woman's decision alone..... not because she wouldn't love to share with the man... but may not even know who that man or men was....
TenPenny
Should I apologize? I wonder. The point I made in my message was many women have no choice when they are impregnated.... by the examples I gave.
By all means consider the men in the scenario....but not in the context I was pointing out.... and whether you felt the great need to make that remark:
I do care.... more than you will ever be called upon to demonstrate.
If a woman had the support of a man who wished she carry a child to term even under the most terrible of circumstances..... she may of course change her mind with that added dimension of love which could alter the circumstances....
Life isn't fair however and many abortions are left to the woman's decision alone..... not because she wouldn't love to share with the man... but may not even know who that man or men was....
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February 6th, 2007, 07:25 PM
I think your post was thoughtful Curio.
I would also love it if the pro-life people would consider the fact that abortions are done on wanted pregnancies as well. I've participated in them as a nurse and none of our families WANTED to abort their unborn child, it was just the better choice for them at the time. They agonize over their decision and don't deserve the condemnation of those who will never understand their situation. I don't understand how anyone with any sort of compassion could look at some of the suffering babies I've seen and NOT think abortion would have been kinder to them.
My general opinion on abortion is if you don't agree with them, don't have one. Otherwise butt out. If it was nearly as sinful as the bible people tell us, I would think there would be a specific prohibition against it in the bible and there isn't.
I think your post was thoughtful Curio.
I would also love it if the pro-life people would consider the fact that abortions are done on wanted pregnancies as well. I've participated in them as a nurse and none of our families WANTED to abort their unborn child, it was just the better choice for them at the time. They agonize over their decision and don't deserve the condemnation of those who will never understand their situation. I don't understand how anyone with any sort of compassion could look at some of the suffering babies I've seen and NOT think abortion would have been kinder to them.
My general opinion on abortion is if you don't agree with them, don't have one. Otherwise butt out. If it was nearly as sinful as the bible people tell us, I would think there would be a specific prohibition against it in the bible and there isn't.
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February 6th, 2007, 07:32 PM
Quoting selfactivated
That means he can choose to be hateful. You don't have to like what he says, and certainly not obey it..be he has every right to say it none the less.
Ideals are one thing, Hate Mongering is another. Whats wrong with freedom of choice?
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February 6th, 2007, 07:35 PM
I guess I should have used the New Brunswick phrase "youse" instead.
Quoting Curiosity
When I grabbed that phrase from your post, I was considering rewording my "in case you care", because I meant "you" in the more general, not specific, sense. But then I thought that it was unlikely that you would think I was specifically making the comment to you, since I wasn't using the html "" tags. TenPenny
Should I apologize? I wonder.
Should I apologize? I wonder.
I guess I should have used the New Brunswick phrase "youse" instead.
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February 6th, 2007, 07:37 PM
I disagree, hate is invasive. Its hurtful and when people hate me I cry. If someone doesnt like me thats fine but hating me, wishing me harm (or anyone else) then thats different.
Quoting Zzarchov
That means he can choose to be hateful. You don't have to like what he says, and certainly not obey it..be he has every right to say it none the less.
I disagree, hate is invasive. Its hurtful and when people hate me I cry. If someone doesnt like me thats fine but hating me, wishing me harm (or anyone else) then thats different.
