Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,844 
May 3rd, 2007, 09:54 AM
Ok, seriously, has no one thought this through?
Education is not a magic bullet. It means you can apply for more jobs, but there are the same number of jobs and the same number of people.
Someone still has to work the minimum wage jobs and someone still has to have no job at all.
If EVERYONE had a PhD than that just means every store clerk will have a PhD.
Education only has true value if you have it, and others don't.
Ie, Learning to read is important. But knowing how to read doesn't grant you a great job. Since almost everyone can read, it just means you really can't have any job without it. The more higher education people have, the less it becomes an advantage and the more it just becomes the status quo.
So "more education" isn't as important as "more jobs". Without jobs, education isn't very useful. Lots of heavily educated countries have a job shortages, causing highly educated people to become unemployed.
Ok, seriously, has no one thought this through?
Education is not a magic bullet. It means you can apply for more jobs, but there are the same number of jobs and the same number of people.
Someone still has to work the minimum wage jobs and someone still has to have no job at all.
If EVERYONE had a PhD than that just means every store clerk will have a PhD.
Education only has true value if you have it, and others don't.
Ie, Learning to read is important. But knowing how to read doesn't grant you a great job. Since almost everyone can read, it just means you really can't have any job without it. The more higher education people have, the less it becomes an advantage and the more it just becomes the status quo.
So "more education" isn't as important as "more jobs". Without jobs, education isn't very useful. Lots of heavily educated countries have a job shortages, causing highly educated people to become unemployed.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,889
May 3rd, 2007, 10:01 AM
For young people not yet in the work force the advice is: Go to school, Go to college, Go to tech school, Go to university. Get some training or education that will set you above the masses. There will always be people who will work for minimum wage. If you don't want to be one of them, get some education.....have a plan.
For young people not yet in the work force the advice is: Go to school, Go to college, Go to tech school, Go to university. Get some training or education that will set you above the masses. There will always be people who will work for minimum wage. If you don't want to be one of them, get some education.....have a plan.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,844
May 3rd, 2007, 12:41 PM
The problem is, it won't set you above the masses.
Demographically, the majority masses have post-secondary. So merely having post secondary will no longer suffice to "set you above the masses".
Supply and Demand, there is no longer such a big demand and low supply for higher education, therefore, wages go down. Basic economics.
People do not want to pay you more than they have to, if you are easily replacable, your wages are lower.
The problem is, it won't set you above the masses.
Demographically, the majority masses have post-secondary. So merely having post secondary will no longer suffice to "set you above the masses".
Supply and Demand, there is no longer such a big demand and low supply for higher education, therefore, wages go down. Basic economics.
People do not want to pay you more than they have to, if you are easily replacable, your wages are lower.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,986
May 3rd, 2007, 01:49 PM
It is very hard to find younger people who have the skills and attitude for many jobs.
Quoting Zzarchov
Aside from education, you need skills of some sort, plus the right attitude.
The problem is, it won't set you above the masses.
Demographically, the majority masses have post-secondary. So merely having post secondary will no longer suffice to "set you above the masses".
Demographically, the majority masses have post-secondary. So merely having post secondary will no longer suffice to "set you above the masses".
It is very hard to find younger people who have the skills and attitude for many jobs.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,889
May 3rd, 2007, 01:57 PM
My point was, that if a guy has a degree in engineering, education, accounting, etc. He won't be applying for a job at a fast food place for minimum wage. If a kid has the ability to go to college, he should go even if it takes twenty grand in student loans. Minimum wage jobs rarely lead anywhere.
My point was, that if a guy has a degree in engineering, education, accounting, etc. He won't be applying for a job at a fast food place for minimum wage. If a kid has the ability to go to college, he should go even if it takes twenty grand in student loans. Minimum wage jobs rarely lead anywhere.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,844
May 3rd, 2007, 02:55 PM
I do have 2 diplomas in two of those fields.
If I wanted work, I had to start my own business. Otherwise, I was still limited to either volunteer work (which I did for a year) or minimum wage.
When the labour force is full, its full. And now without mandatory retirement, its gonna stay full for a long time.
Many of my old college buddies, including the valedictorian are worse off. The interest payments cost more than the increase in wages for their job requiring post-secondary in a very demanding field. They would actually be better off having not gone and going to flip burgers.
Now three of the five (ya, of 72 people in only 8 graduate) who were unemployed went to alberta and make descent money, one is even working in his field.
But there is a huge problem with bottlenecking. In my job, I was told there was no openings and I was unqualified for a position as an assistent to a technician. Two months later I was hired as my personal business, to the do the job of the guy I would have been an assistant too.
Talking off the record to HR about why he'd pay me $45/hr instead of $15? Its too hard to replace people from midlevel positions due to the cost in reasonable notice, so they hire contractors to pick up their slack, because its cheaper. When they do hire lower level people, they want people who are far over qualified, so when the queue starts moving they can be promoted quickly.
Now I will be the first to admit, that is ONE (poorly run) company. And other than as an amusing/annoying anecdote there isn't a whole lot of weight behind it.
But it is a HUGE problem. Too much education, not enough jobs requiring it.
I do have 2 diplomas in two of those fields.
If I wanted work, I had to start my own business. Otherwise, I was still limited to either volunteer work (which I did for a year) or minimum wage.
When the labour force is full, its full. And now without mandatory retirement, its gonna stay full for a long time.
Many of my old college buddies, including the valedictorian are worse off. The interest payments cost more than the increase in wages for their job requiring post-secondary in a very demanding field. They would actually be better off having not gone and going to flip burgers.
Now three of the five (ya, of 72 people in only 8 graduate) who were unemployed went to alberta and make descent money, one is even working in his field.
But there is a huge problem with bottlenecking. In my job, I was told there was no openings and I was unqualified for a position as an assistent to a technician. Two months later I was hired as my personal business, to the do the job of the guy I would have been an assistant too.
Talking off the record to HR about why he'd pay me $45/hr instead of $15? Its too hard to replace people from midlevel positions due to the cost in reasonable notice, so they hire contractors to pick up their slack, because its cheaper. When they do hire lower level people, they want people who are far over qualified, so when the queue starts moving they can be promoted quickly.
Now I will be the first to admit, that is ONE (poorly run) company. And other than as an amusing/annoying anecdote there isn't a whole lot of weight behind it.
But it is a HUGE problem. Too much education, not enough jobs requiring it.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,889
May 3rd, 2007, 03:00 PM
Quoting Zzarchov
I have a degree in mechanical engineering and even though I'm retired, I could go to work tomorrow. I don't know where you live but it is not like that here.
I do have 2 diplomas in two of those fields.
If I wanted work, I had to start my own business. Otherwise, I was still limited to either volunteer work (which I did for a year) or minimum wage.
When the labour force is full, its full. And now without mandatory retirement, its gonna stay full for a long time.
Many of my old college buddies, including the valedictorian are worse off. The interest payments cost more than the increase in wages for their job requiring post-secondary in a very demanding field. They would actually be better off having not gone and going to flip burgers.
Now three of the five (ya, of 72 people in only 8 graduate) who were unemployed went to alberta and make descent money, one is even working in his field.
But there is a huge problem with bottlenecking. In my job, I was told there was no openings and I was unqualified for a position as an assistent to a technician. Two months later I was hired as my personal business, to the do the job of the guy I would have been an assistant too.
Talking off the record to HR about why he'd pay me $45/hr instead of $15? Its too hard to replace people from midlevel positions due to the cost in reasonable notice, so they hire contractors to pick up their slack, because its cheaper. When they do hire lower level people, they want people who are far over qualified, so when the queue starts moving they can be promoted quickly.
Now I will be the first to admit, that is ONE (poorly run) company. And other than as an amusing/annoying anecdote there isn't a whole lot of weight behind it.
But it is a HUGE problem. Too much education, not enough jobs requiring it.
If I wanted work, I had to start my own business. Otherwise, I was still limited to either volunteer work (which I did for a year) or minimum wage.
When the labour force is full, its full. And now without mandatory retirement, its gonna stay full for a long time.
Many of my old college buddies, including the valedictorian are worse off. The interest payments cost more than the increase in wages for their job requiring post-secondary in a very demanding field. They would actually be better off having not gone and going to flip burgers.
Now three of the five (ya, of 72 people in only 8 graduate) who were unemployed went to alberta and make descent money, one is even working in his field.
But there is a huge problem with bottlenecking. In my job, I was told there was no openings and I was unqualified for a position as an assistent to a technician. Two months later I was hired as my personal business, to the do the job of the guy I would have been an assistant too.
Talking off the record to HR about why he'd pay me $45/hr instead of $15? Its too hard to replace people from midlevel positions due to the cost in reasonable notice, so they hire contractors to pick up their slack, because its cheaper. When they do hire lower level people, they want people who are far over qualified, so when the queue starts moving they can be promoted quickly.
Now I will be the first to admit, that is ONE (poorly run) company. And other than as an amusing/annoying anecdote there isn't a whole lot of weight behind it.
But it is a HUGE problem. Too much education, not enough jobs requiring it.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,844
May 3rd, 2007, 03:12 PM
Could also be age related too, again, im not an expert in the matter, I can only speak with anecdotal evidence to trends.
try putting out a fake resume as if you'd been fresh out of school, see if you get anything even entry level. Might be a fun experiment.
Could also be age related too, again, im not an expert in the matter, I can only speak with anecdotal evidence to trends.
try putting out a fake resume as if you'd been fresh out of school, see if you get anything even entry level. Might be a fun experiment.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,889
May 3rd, 2007, 03:23 PM
Quoting Zzarchov
I know young people are being hired because I still have a lot of contacts in the field.. Even entry level in engineering is far above minimum wage. These kids fresh out of university are pulling down twenty five grand and in a couple years they'll demand twice that.
Could also be age related too, again, im not an expert in the matter, I can only speak with anecdotal evidence to trends.
try putting out a fake resume as if you'd been fresh out of school, see if you get anything even entry level. Might be a fun experiment.
try putting out a fake resume as if you'd been fresh out of school, see if you get anything even entry level. Might be a fun experiment.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,844
May 3rd, 2007, 05:13 PM
Its not about being hired, its about how many aren't.
I'd also question if they will still rise up in ranks fast enough to make twice that, with no mandatory retirement, the line doesn't move. That is a major problem alot of HR managers I talk to have, finding ways to keep staff happy without room to promote.
But different perspectives. I looked up from the bottom, your looking down the top. Neither one is right, the world is different since you rose the ranks, and the world is gonna keep changing so that nothing I could see right now will be there in five or ten. But the baby boomer bottleneck is the biggest HR headache out there right now.
I did pretty well just circumventing the whole mess, for now anyways.
Its not about being hired, its about how many aren't.
I'd also question if they will still rise up in ranks fast enough to make twice that, with no mandatory retirement, the line doesn't move. That is a major problem alot of HR managers I talk to have, finding ways to keep staff happy without room to promote.
But different perspectives. I looked up from the bottom, your looking down the top. Neither one is right, the world is different since you rose the ranks, and the world is gonna keep changing so that nothing I could see right now will be there in five or ten. But the baby boomer bottleneck is the biggest HR headache out there right now.
I did pretty well just circumventing the whole mess, for now anyways.
Member
Posts: 54
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
May 3rd, 2007, 08:27 PM
Quoting #juan
For sure. In the world today, degrees are almost required even for the most basic entry level positions with major companies.
For young people not yet in the work force the advice is: Go to school, Go to college, Go to tech school, Go to university. Get some training or education that will set you above the masses. There will always be people who will work for minimum wage. If you don't want to be one of them, get some education.....have a plan.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 622
May 4th, 2007, 09:04 AM
who ever decided I needed a the 'C"MON ' rep remark ,Thank you --whatever you meant by that ,it is you who needs to C'MON get your facts straight ,get into the real world --
The Sat's that say 18-24 year old are , for the most part, the people that make up the minimum wage group are in dream land
Your Canada ,your country is hiding is poor and the greedy government we pay so well to ensure this very thing doesnt happen is the worst --the Corporations got the biggest tax cuts ,we the majority got zip a pittance ,everything has gone up in price except the pays for the people who need it the most ,the people that buy the corporation's crap -- Watch as everything goes underground from cigg to meat
who ever decided I needed a the 'C"MON ' rep remark ,Thank you --whatever you meant by that ,it is you who needs to C'MON get your facts straight ,get into the real world --
The Sat's that say 18-24 year old are , for the most part, the people that make up the minimum wage group are in dream land
Your Canada ,your country is hiding is poor and the greedy government we pay so well to ensure this very thing doesnt happen is the worst --the Corporations got the biggest tax cuts ,we the majority got zip a pittance ,everything has gone up in price except the pays for the people who need it the most ,the people that buy the corporation's crap -- Watch as everything goes underground from cigg to meat
