An orgy in the church of my baptism?

Machjo
#1
Though I do not profess the Catholic Faith, or at least not anymore, I was born and raised Catholic and many in my family continue to profess the Catholic Faith.

The whole time I'd gone to Catholic school and Catechism classes, I'd never suffered any kind of abuse at the hands of any of the teachers. Reading about all the sex scandals rocking the Church anew, however, it seems that I was among the lucky but perhaps smaller-than-I-thought majority. What's going on the the Church that so many in positions of authority have decided to abuse that authority, and what could the Church do to improve the situation?
 
gerryh
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Though I do not profess the Catholic Faith, or at least not anymore, I was born and raised Catholic and many in my family continue to profess the Catholic Faith.

The whole time I'd gone to Catholic school and Catechism classes, I'd never suffered any kind of abuse at the hands of any of the teachers. Reading about all the sex scandals rocking the Church anew, however, it seems that I was among the lucky but perhaps smaller-than-I-thought majority. What's going on the the Church that so many in positions of authority have decided to abuse that authority, and what could the Church do to improve the situation?


Let's, once again, blow things out of proportion with inflammatory statements like "it seems that I was among the lucky but perhaps smaller-than-I-thought majority".

The percentage of pedophiles within the Catholic Church runs at about the same level as the general population. What makes the whole thing even more horrific than it is, is the fact that the Church tried to cover it up for so long rather than deal with it up front.
 
SirJosephPorter
#3
I assume you are referring to what is happening in Ireland. Something good may come out of it. So far, Catholic Church has been governing Ireland with an iron fist. Public schools are run by Catholic Church, but funded by public money. When I lived in Britain in the 80s, even contraception was illegal in Ireland. Women who were in support of contraception used to be referred to as ‘evil women’ by the Church.

The Church’s argument was that legalizing contraception will tempt married women to have sex with the strangers, to commit adultery.

One of the good side effects may well be that the hegemony of Catholic Church may come to an end in Ireland, and about time to.
 
gerryh
#4
of course..... since any Catholic Church doctrine is bad. Even if the reality of Church doctrine, when it comes to sex, would pretty much eliminate STD's and pre-marital/single pregnancy's.
 
Machjo
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Let's, once again, blow things out of proportion with inflammatory statements like "it seems that I was among the lucky but perhaps smaller-than-I-thought majority".

The percentage of pedophiles within the Catholic Church runs at about the same level as the general population. What makes the whole thing even more horrific than it is, is the fact that the Church tried to cover it up for so long rather than deal with it up front.

You misunderstood me here. I have no issue with the existence of the Church per se in terms of freedom of religion. Nor am I suggesting that sexual abuse in the Church is necessarily its fault. Nor am I suggesting that the Church has the ability to eliminate such abuse altogether.
My issue has to do with how many high ranking members have covered up these issues instead of trying to purge these elements from among them. had that been the case, while the odd case of abuse might come up from time to time, it would be quickly dealt with, and way fewer such issues would occur. My issue is with how the Church often seems to try to turn a blind eye except when it makes it in the public spotlight.

Compared to other religious communities, it's record truly is dismal. Sure abuse cases have occurred in other religious communities, but it would seem that they are dealt with more quickly too. If a protestant did this, none in his church would defend him from the law. If a Muslim should do this, the Muslim community would be swift in turning him in to the police. Yet when it comes to the Catholic Church, it would seem that it's shy of legal authorities when it comes to reporting these cases instead of trying to hide them thinking it'll never come out into the open.
 
Machjo
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

of course..... since any Catholic Church doctrine is bad. Even if the reality of Church doctrine, when it comes to sex, would pretty much eliminate STD's and pre-marital/single pregnancy's.

I'm all for rules against extra-marital sex. But I'm also for any religious community to turn its members in to the police when they break the law. Heck, even the Church itself opposes extra-marital sex and marriage between people of the same sex and among minors. So how is it that the Church is so critical of this among the non-Catholic community but turns a blind eye among its leaders? The issue here is not even with whether or not we agree with Catholic doctrine, but rather with whether it lives up to its own avowed standards.
 
SirJosephPorter
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

I'm all for rules against extra-marital sex. But I'm also for any religious community to turn its members in to the police when they break the law. Heck, even the Church itself opposes extra-marital sex and marriage between people of the same sex and among minors. So how is it that the Church is so critical of this among the non-Catholic community but turns a blind eye among its leaders? The issue here is not even with whether or not we agree with Catholic doctrine, but rather with whether it lives up to its own avowed standards.

Why should it live up to its avowed standards? Hypocrisy is the hallmark of almost every religion. It is always one law for the member of the clergy and one for the hoi polloi. That is almost a universal rule, whether for Christianity or for Islam.
 
Machjo
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Why should it live up to its avowed standards? Hypocrisy is the hallmark of almost every religion. It is always one law for the member of the clergy and one for the hoi polloi. That is almost a universal rule, whether for Christianity or for Islam.

The arrogance of the ecclesiastical authorities is not to be blamed on the hoi polloi.Though I don't profess the Christian Faith myself, it's only fair to judge it by its scriptures. The Gospel is quite clear on its position with regards to the abuse of children and hypocrisy. So instead of blaming religion, how about rooting out the problem at its source?

The question in the OP is not intended to discredit the Christian Faith, which I think is truly a Faith worthy of respect, but rather to ask what the Christian and non-Christian communities can do to protect children from unscrupulous Church official who have a total disregard for the teachings of their own scriptures with regards to their responsibility towards the vulnerable, and perhaps even how the Christian scriptures themselves could be used to motivate them to live up to a higher standard and, even among Church officials who have not engaged in such abuse, to report abuses known to them to the proper authorities.
 
Spade
#9
Church theologian calls for a review of celibacy in Latin Rite of the Church.
Ratzinger's Responsibility | National Catholic Reporter
 
SirJosephPorter
#10
Spade, I think the Pope has declared this issue to be out of bounds for discussion. I am not sure exactly what he issued; it may have been a Papal Bull. I don’t think he has invoked the doctrine of infallibility on this one.

But he has effectively declared that the discussion on the issue is over, that there is no room for compromise.
 
YukonJack
#11
Once again we reached the height of Hypocrisy.

SirJosephPorter admonished me on another thread about voicing my opinion about cricket, because - Heavens! - I don't care for cricket.

Time after time, thread after thread he butts his nose into matters of religion, in spite of his proud admission that he is an ATHEIST.
 
Spade
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Spade, I think the Pope has declared this issue to be out of bounds for discussion. I am not sure exactly what he issued; it may have been a Papal Bull. I don’t think he has invoked the doctrine of infallibility on this one.

But he has effectively declared that the discussion on the issue is over, that there is no room for compromise.

Not so. Celibacy is simply a discipline within the Latin rite. Not only does the Pope allow exceptions in the Latin Rite, a married clergy is common in the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church.
Last edited by Spade; Mar 21st, 2010 at 12:51 PM..
 
SirJosephPorter
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

Once again we reached the height of Hypocrisy.

SirJosephPorter admonished me on another thread about voicing my opinion about cricket, because - Heavens! - I don't care for cricket.

Time after time, thread after thread he butts his nose into matters of religion, in spite of his proud admission that he is an ATHEIST.

That is because I am interested in religion, even though I donít believe in it. You posted in the cricket thread specifically to inform us that you were not interested in cricket. That is the difference.
 
gerryh
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

That is because I am interested in religion, even though I donít believe in it. You posted in the cricket thread specifically to inform us that you were not interested in cricket. That is the difference.

No, you're interested in bashing religion and the adherents. That is your only interest. You are not alone on this forum either.
 
DaSleeper
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

No, you're interested in bashing religion and the adherents. That is your only interest. You are not alone on this forum either.

That's what Trolls do......
 
abitz
#16
Less than 2% percent of the Clergy are involved in adulterous acts.

This is compared to 5% of the normal population.

That 2% is still an awful percentage, considering the position they are in.
 
L Gilbert
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

The percentage of pedophiles within the Catholic Church runs at about the same level as the general population. What makes the whole thing even more horrific than it is, is the fact that the Church tried to cover it up for so long rather than deal with it up front.

I'll echo gerryh's comment.
 
damngrumpy
#18
Ah, the Catholic Church, I remember well going to mass and all the other traditions.
I escaped, and I do not wish to return to that lifestyle. I think what ever the hell I
please. I eat meat when I like, I watch programs or read books and so on what ever
I please. Someone said the ratio of sex offenders in the church is the same as the
rest of society. The fact they hid the crimes, is the base of the problem.
People speculate all kinds of things and they view it differently its a problem within
the church. The real fact is these are not spiritual problems they are criminal problems and should be viewed as such. I think there should be trials for all religious leaders who commit such crimes. For the most part I have become tired of these
hypocrites, crying discrimination and rights violations. If the churches were in power
we would be suffering from an abundance of madmen enforcing Gods law.
 
china
#19
Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Though I do not profess the Catholic Faith, or at least not anymore, I was born and raised Catholic and many in my family continue to profess the Catholic Faith.

The whole time I'd gone to Catholic school and Catechism classes, I'd never suffered any kind of abuse at the hands of any of the teachers. Reading about all the sex scandals rocking the Church anew, however, it seems that I was among the lucky but perhaps smaller-than-I-thought majority. What's going on the the Church that so many in positions of authority have decided to abuse that authority, and what could the Church do to improve the situation?

I have also lived in a Catholic boarding school,and have never bin sexually abused in any way what so ever by the brothers . Though I must say that I have learned how to boxs pretty good and how to play an American Football -part of the Catholic curriculum .
Long live Catholic Schools.
 
china
#20
[
Quote:

quote=Machjo;1240619]Though I do not profess the Catholic Faith, or at least not anymore, I was born and raised Catholic and many in my family continue to profess the Catholic Faith.

You are an intelligent and creative man ,Machjo, that is hy
 
SirJosephPorter
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by abitzView Post

Less than 2% percent of the Clergy are involved in adulterous acts.

This is compared to 5% of the normal population.

That 2% is still an awful percentage, considering the position they are in.

Quite so. Let us say that 5% of plumbers are pedophiles. How many kids does a plumber come in contact? I would say very few. There is no reason why a family would trust their kids to a plumber.

But how many kids does a clergyman come into contact with? The parents from the congregation trust the priest implicitly and absolutely, most of them have no problem leaving their kid with the priest, secure in the belief that no harm will come to the kid. A clergyman comes into contact with many children, much more so than most other profession.

A pedophile clergyman probably would do as much damage as ten pedophile plumbers. That is why that 2% is way too high.
 
YukonJack
#22
Every time there is a prolific and seemingly uncatchable serial killer on the loose, there are innumerable copy cats (some actually commit murdrers) and some pathetic wannabe's who long for an undeserved 15 minutes of fame and "confess".

I am confident that a large proportion of claims against Catholic Priests is exactly just that. Unscrupulous crooks who know that in today's society they can not only get away with lies about Catholics, but actually be hailed and honoured for it.
 
darkbeaver
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

Every time there is a prolific and seemingly uncatchable serial killer on the loose, there are innumerable copy cats (some actually commit murdrers) and some pathetic wannabe's who long for an undeserved 15 minutes of fame and "confess".

I am confident that a large proportion of claims against Catholic Priests is exactly just that. Unscrupulous crooks who know that in today's society they can not only get away with lies about Catholics, but actually be hailed and honoured for it.

The various churches continue to depend on your thinking for their comfortable survival. The dirt under this rug has become very lumpy as a matter of media determination. Someone wants us looking the other way and all the banked situations are being withdrawn en masse to build a deflecting wall for some other notable dignitaries who may find todays climate too hot for growth. Today's society is almost entirely made of the honourable unscrupulous. Hail Baal.
 
AnnaG
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post


A pedophile clergyman probably would do as much damage as ten pedophile plumbers. That is why that 2% is way too high.

Evidence?
 

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