When I was studying catechism in Catholic school as a kid, one the the points taught in class that had always confounded me was the question of the ascention of Jesus. It was always taught as a literal ascention, and explicitely so when I'd questioned the teacher about it. Generally speaking, the answer I always got was that it was a question of Faith. While I can accept that not all can be proven, the problem with a literal ascention is its implications on the material, and thus scientifially verifiable, world.
For instance, if Jesus ascended literally, then he must have followed a particular trajectory at a particular velocity within a particular acceletory pattern for a set period of time before reaching Heaven, which woud thus allow us to pinpoint Heaven at a particular co-ordiate in space. At that stage, it's no longer a matter of Faith that simply cannot be either proven or disproven. If the ascention is literal, even if we accept miracles, it still must have involved a trajectory, a velocity, an acceleration, and a time frame, allowing us to pinpoint a co-ordinate, something not spiritual, but very much material and as such, verifiable by science.
It cannot be compared to other miracles, either, Let's take healing the sick, resurecting people, or walking on water as examples. In all of these cases, God could suspend the laws of physics to allow these events to occur. As for the ascention of Jesus, of course he could do the same in order to allow Jesus to ascend. The difference, however, is in its implications concerning heaven. If Jesus physically ascended towards Heaven, that implies that heaven is not a spiritual domain, but very much an astral one.
So while I could accept a spiritual ascention, with the story in the Gospel taken as a symbolic representation of that ascention, with the concept of ascention itself to be symbolic (sinse even up and down are relative gravitational concepts), I can't see how that ascention could be literal without implying that Heaven is at a particular co-ordinate in space, since a literal ascention would involve movement in physical space to reach it.
I'd be curious to know how most Christians here understand the ascention of Jesus and that understanding's implication for your conception of Heaven as either a spiritual or physical place.
For instance, if Jesus ascended literally, then he must have followed a particular trajectory at a particular velocity within a particular acceletory pattern for a set period of time before reaching Heaven, which woud thus allow us to pinpoint Heaven at a particular co-ordiate in space. At that stage, it's no longer a matter of Faith that simply cannot be either proven or disproven. If the ascention is literal, even if we accept miracles, it still must have involved a trajectory, a velocity, an acceleration, and a time frame, allowing us to pinpoint a co-ordinate, something not spiritual, but very much material and as such, verifiable by science.
It cannot be compared to other miracles, either, Let's take healing the sick, resurecting people, or walking on water as examples. In all of these cases, God could suspend the laws of physics to allow these events to occur. As for the ascention of Jesus, of course he could do the same in order to allow Jesus to ascend. The difference, however, is in its implications concerning heaven. If Jesus physically ascended towards Heaven, that implies that heaven is not a spiritual domain, but very much an astral one.
So while I could accept a spiritual ascention, with the story in the Gospel taken as a symbolic representation of that ascention, with the concept of ascention itself to be symbolic (sinse even up and down are relative gravitational concepts), I can't see how that ascention could be literal without implying that Heaven is at a particular co-ordinate in space, since a literal ascention would involve movement in physical space to reach it.
I'd be curious to know how most Christians here understand the ascention of Jesus and that understanding's implication for your conception of Heaven as either a spiritual or physical place.
