Council Member
Posts: 1,688 
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
January 31st, 2008, 12:10 AM
What for? You've already stated you know the answers. If my answer differs from yours, it won't make any difference. It's quite clear how antagonistic the "athiests" are towards religion, especially Chrisianity, on this board.
AJ posts quite well, you do have to think about what he has written to understand it though. That seems to be the problem with those athiests that chose to post in these threads...... unwilling to think, and unwilling to understand "Faith".
I've read the bullshyte responses from the "athiests", tell me why I should post or respond with anything more.... and don't bother with the "that's not very christian".... you aren't a christian, so you don't have that optional retort to use.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
And you still haven't answered the questions.
What for? You've already stated you know the answers. If my answer differs from yours, it won't make any difference. It's quite clear how antagonistic the "athiests" are towards religion, especially Chrisianity, on this board.
AJ posts quite well, you do have to think about what he has written to understand it though. That seems to be the problem with those athiests that chose to post in these threads...... unwilling to think, and unwilling to understand "Faith".
I've read the bullshyte responses from the "athiests", tell me why I should post or respond with anything more.... and don't bother with the "that's not very christian".... you aren't a christian, so you don't have that optional retort to use.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,535
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Location: Calgary, Alberta
January 31st, 2008, 12:28 AM
Gerryh:
I certainly haven't resorted to name calling and swearing as a way to avoid answering points raised. My questions of a couple days ago stand, and you keep dodging them: your avoidance of asking yourself very difficult questions about your own faith speaks to the blinkered cowardice of many of the faithful.
This is not slander: it is observation - remember only churches really get into banning thought and books. Others do it, sure, but governments are amateurs when it comes to suppressing thought.
Gerryh, try to answer what I wrote, if your faith is true and right, you should have no trouble proving your point and who knows? You might even win a convert or two.
That is an obligation of your faith, isn't it?
Pangloss
Gerryh:
I certainly haven't resorted to name calling and swearing as a way to avoid answering points raised. My questions of a couple days ago stand, and you keep dodging them: your avoidance of asking yourself very difficult questions about your own faith speaks to the blinkered cowardice of many of the faithful.
This is not slander: it is observation - remember only churches really get into banning thought and books. Others do it, sure, but governments are amateurs when it comes to suppressing thought.
Gerryh, try to answer what I wrote, if your faith is true and right, you should have no trouble proving your point and who knows? You might even win a convert or two.
That is an obligation of your faith, isn't it?
Pangloss
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 9,067
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Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
January 31st, 2008, 07:30 AM
Much of the bible is written in layers. The way of men and god (power) is more or less contained in the various books of the bible from the simplest to the more complex. It's quite out of date but most of the basics are buried in it, as they are in other old tomes of other origins. If you take a literal meaning from the compilation you will quite frankly become insane/hooked/fanatasized/indoctrinated-----------abandone all hope.
The distance between then and now, if measured in years is 2008 years + or- 400yrs, things have changed since that time, exponentially, beyond the point where the founding conspirators could ensure conformity. Hysteria and delusion tends to rage out of control directly proportional to time and scale. Thank god (haha) for the printing press something that saved mankind, if where we are now can be considered salvation. The entire history of organized institutionalized christian religion has in fact been much ado about absolutely nothing more than, much ado, The very old bait and switch game of shock and awe. A game for mice while the cats held sway.
Much of the bible is written in layers. The way of men and god (power) is more or less contained in the various books of the bible from the simplest to the more complex. It's quite out of date but most of the basics are buried in it, as they are in other old tomes of other origins. If you take a literal meaning from the compilation you will quite frankly become insane/hooked/fanatasized/indoctrinated-----------abandone all hope.
The distance between then and now, if measured in years is 2008 years + or- 400yrs, things have changed since that time, exponentially, beyond the point where the founding conspirators could ensure conformity. Hysteria and delusion tends to rage out of control directly proportional to time and scale. Thank god (haha) for the printing press something that saved mankind, if where we are now can be considered salvation. The entire history of organized institutionalized christian religion has in fact been much ado about absolutely nothing more than, much ado, The very old bait and switch game of shock and awe. A game for mice while the cats held sway.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,535
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Location: Calgary, Alberta
January 31st, 2008, 09:42 AM
Gerryh:
"you aren't a christian, so you don't have that optional retort to use" (quote from you - including the grammatical mistake).
Of course non-christians (or non-Buddhists, non-Jews, non-Moonies, etc) can point to someone of whatever faith and call them on behaving contradictory to their faith.
If you profess to have a better ("truer") way of living, one that gives you better morals or more resistance to temptation or a greater proclivity to charity, then when you act a thug or a cheat or a liar, we can call you on it.
Just as you could call me a sanctimonious hypocrite liar if you saw me (a vegetarian) eating a hamburger, even if you were not a vegetarian yourself. Pretty simple stuff here, gerryh.
Even a moments reflection would point out the error of your thinking. So, perhaps you should think before you post.
Just a suggestion.
Gerryh:
"you aren't a christian, so you don't have that optional retort to use" (quote from you - including the grammatical mistake).
Of course non-christians (or non-Buddhists, non-Jews, non-Moonies, etc) can point to someone of whatever faith and call them on behaving contradictory to their faith.
If you profess to have a better ("truer") way of living, one that gives you better morals or more resistance to temptation or a greater proclivity to charity, then when you act a thug or a cheat or a liar, we can call you on it.
Just as you could call me a sanctimonious hypocrite liar if you saw me (a vegetarian) eating a hamburger, even if you were not a vegetarian yourself. Pretty simple stuff here, gerryh.
Even a moments reflection would point out the error of your thinking. So, perhaps you should think before you post.
Just a suggestion.
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
January 31st, 2008, 09:51 AM
and perhaps YOU should try the same thing...since you know nothing of Christianity, especially MY beliefs.
Biggest arguments by you idiots.... the OT this the OT that....the NT is the Christian bible.....The NT is where Jesus laid things out.
Quoting Pangloss
Gerryh:
"you aren't a christian, so you don't have that optional retort to use" (quote from you - including the grammatical mistake).
Of course non-christians (or non-Buddhists, non-Jews, non-Moonies, etc) can point to someone of whatever faith and call them on behaving contradictory to their faith.
If you profess to have a better ("truer") way of living, one that gives you better morals or more resistance to temptation or a greater proclivity to charity, then when you act a thug or a cheat or a liar, we can call you on it.
Just as you could call me a sanctimonious hypocrite liar if you saw me (a vegetarian) eating a hamburger, even if you were not a vegetarian yourself. Pretty simple stuff here, gerryh.
Even a moments reflection would point out the error of your thinking. So, perhaps you should think before you post.
Just a suggestion.
"you aren't a christian, so you don't have that optional retort to use" (quote from you - including the grammatical mistake).
Of course non-christians (or non-Buddhists, non-Jews, non-Moonies, etc) can point to someone of whatever faith and call them on behaving contradictory to their faith.
If you profess to have a better ("truer") way of living, one that gives you better morals or more resistance to temptation or a greater proclivity to charity, then when you act a thug or a cheat or a liar, we can call you on it.
Just as you could call me a sanctimonious hypocrite liar if you saw me (a vegetarian) eating a hamburger, even if you were not a vegetarian yourself. Pretty simple stuff here, gerryh.
Even a moments reflection would point out the error of your thinking. So, perhaps you should think before you post.
Just a suggestion.
and perhaps YOU should try the same thing...since you know nothing of Christianity, especially MY beliefs.
Biggest arguments by you idiots.... the OT this the OT that....the NT is the Christian bible.....The NT is where Jesus laid things out.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,535
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Location: Calgary, Alberta
January 31st, 2008, 10:06 AM
Now, as to this not knowing anything of christianity - where do you get this, gerryh? Is this just a guess, or more slander? I was raised Anglican, and taught Sunday school, my angry little sophist - so you're still batting zero - all pitches and swings, and no hits.
When asked if he stood by the books of the old testament, gerryh, Jesus answered that he stood by every law and would not change a word. So yes, the Old Testament is relevant to a discussion of Jesus.
You still haven't answered any questions, gerryh. You just seem to be getting angrier and angrier, and doing your best to avoid answering what you said you could so so easily.
Hmmm, makes me doubt your sincerity.
Aren't christians supposed to be sincere?
Pangloss
Quoting gerryh
Not exactly a refutation - sort of a schoolyard "says you!" kind of a retort, isn't it gerryh?
and perhaps YOU should try the same thing...since you know nothing of Christianity, especially MY beliefs.
Biggest arguments by you idiots.... the OT this the OT that....the NT is the Christian bible.....The NT is where Jesus laid things out.
Biggest arguments by you idiots.... the OT this the OT that....the NT is the Christian bible.....The NT is where Jesus laid things out.
Now, as to this not knowing anything of christianity - where do you get this, gerryh? Is this just a guess, or more slander? I was raised Anglican, and taught Sunday school, my angry little sophist - so you're still batting zero - all pitches and swings, and no hits.
When asked if he stood by the books of the old testament, gerryh, Jesus answered that he stood by every law and would not change a word. So yes, the Old Testament is relevant to a discussion of Jesus.
You still haven't answered any questions, gerryh. You just seem to be getting angrier and angrier, and doing your best to avoid answering what you said you could so so easily.
Hmmm, makes me doubt your sincerity.
Aren't christians supposed to be sincere?
Pangloss
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
January 31st, 2008, 01:06 PM
Quoting Pangloss
Site the relevant scripture.
When asked if he stood by the books of the old testament, gerryh, Jesus answered that he stood by every law and would not change a word. So yes, the Old Testament is relevant to a discussion of Jesus.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,535
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Location: Calgary, Alberta
January 31st, 2008, 01:09 PM
Nice attempt to dodge. Too bad it didn't work.
How's about it? Wanna step up and answer my original questions? The ones you said you could. . .
Pangloss
Quoting gerryh
Um, it's cite, and I'll get back to you after lunch. Meanwhile, perhaps you can address my questions.
Site the relevant scripture.
Nice attempt to dodge. Too bad it didn't work.
How's about it? Wanna step up and answer my original questions? The ones you said you could. . .
Pangloss
House Member
Posts: 3,507
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
January 31st, 2008, 01:14 PM
Matthew 5:18-19 Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Quoting gerryh
The site, and the cite:
Site the relevant scripture.
Matthew 5:18-19 Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
January 31st, 2008, 01:20 PM
There are "flood stories" from many many different sources. This does not "discount" the biblical interpratation.
Where did Cain and Abels wives come from? You need a lesson in procreation now? Catholisism does not discount the fact that there wasn't ONLY Adam and Eve. The story of the garden is just that, a story. With moralistic lessons. Every story in the Bible is a lesson to be learned. It is a rough History of the Jewish people with Lesson's that are still of value today.
Why do you want to see slavery, incest, and rape listed in the 10 commandments? God gave us 10 Commandments to live our life by and the ability to think for ourselves and choose between right and wrong. If we choose wrong, then that is our problem not His. Everything else is pretty well common sese, no? Incest begats genetically inferior children, I don't think I need to tell you why rape is bad, and slavery is still common in many parts of the world, but man is slowly seeing the error of his ways in that regard.
You want to tell me who, from 2000, 3000, 4000 or more years ago would have understood plate techtonics etc, or would have needed to know? We've managed to figure these things out on our own, that would be the ability to think for ourselves. Aren't you glad God gave us that ability?
Mathew explains who Jesus was and is. Give it a read.
Quoting Pangloss
How can anyone believe in the bible of the christians when it contradicts itself, misses so much obvious truth, get things wrong and plagiarizes most of the good stories?
Read Gilgamesh for the story of the flood.
Where did Cain and Abel's wives come from?
Why isn't slavery, rape or incest listed in the 10 commandments?
Plate tectonics? The germ theory of disease? DNA? Electromagnetism?
Did "God" or Jesus not know of these things? If they were omniscient why did they keep these things a secret?
Who was Jesus? Some crazy guy from a deeply crazy part of the world.
Buncha bullpuckey.
Pangloss
Read Gilgamesh for the story of the flood.
Where did Cain and Abel's wives come from?
Why isn't slavery, rape or incest listed in the 10 commandments?
Plate tectonics? The germ theory of disease? DNA? Electromagnetism?
Did "God" or Jesus not know of these things? If they were omniscient why did they keep these things a secret?
Who was Jesus? Some crazy guy from a deeply crazy part of the world.
Buncha bullpuckey.
Pangloss
There are "flood stories" from many many different sources. This does not "discount" the biblical interpratation.
Where did Cain and Abels wives come from? You need a lesson in procreation now? Catholisism does not discount the fact that there wasn't ONLY Adam and Eve. The story of the garden is just that, a story. With moralistic lessons. Every story in the Bible is a lesson to be learned. It is a rough History of the Jewish people with Lesson's that are still of value today.
Why do you want to see slavery, incest, and rape listed in the 10 commandments? God gave us 10 Commandments to live our life by and the ability to think for ourselves and choose between right and wrong. If we choose wrong, then that is our problem not His. Everything else is pretty well common sese, no? Incest begats genetically inferior children, I don't think I need to tell you why rape is bad, and slavery is still common in many parts of the world, but man is slowly seeing the error of his ways in that regard.
You want to tell me who, from 2000, 3000, 4000 or more years ago would have understood plate techtonics etc, or would have needed to know? We've managed to figure these things out on our own, that would be the ability to think for ourselves. Aren't you glad God gave us that ability?
Mathew explains who Jesus was and is. Give it a read.
House Member
Posts: 3,507
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
January 31st, 2008, 01:20 PM
Or you can take the opposite view:
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John [the Baptist]: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached.
Romans 7:4, 6 Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ .... We are delivered from the law, that being dead.
2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
Or you can take the opposite view:
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John [the Baptist]: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached.
Romans 7:4, 6 Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ .... We are delivered from the law, that being dead.
2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
Member
Posts: 115
Location: Living in Lymington (the new forest) in the south of the U.K.
Location: Living in Lymington (the new forest) in the south of the U.K.
January 31st, 2008, 01:25 PM
Surely your god is who you believe him to be, one time it was my headmaster, another time my father, and so on, I think the most touching referencemade to god was by Dave Allen the Irish comedian, when he closed his shows, he always said "Good night and may your god go with you"
Surely your god is who you believe him to be, one time it was my headmaster, another time my father, and so on, I think the most touching referencemade to god was by Dave Allen the Irish comedian, when he closed his shows, he always said "Good night and may your god go with you"
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,535
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Location: Calgary, Alberta
January 31st, 2008, 01:31 PM
Dexter:
I'm not going to contradict you, instead I'll let the bible of the christians contradict itself:
Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am come not to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be filfilled."
That was the big guy, Jesus himself, being quoted.
Gerryh: By your logic, murder doesn't need to be in the Decalogue, either. BTW, there is more slavery now in the world than at any time in human history. . .
Yeah, about the flood story - it is still ripped off from other cultures, and is still impossible and prima facie wrong.
Plate tectonics would have been great to know - it would have proved that God knew something we didn't already.
Germ theory of disease? Didn't bother with that one, huh? I understand.
As for reading Matthew, look where my Jesus quote was cited from.
Learn your own bible, gerryh - aren't you the christian here?
Pangloss
Dexter:
I'm not going to contradict you, instead I'll let the bible of the christians contradict itself:
Matthew 5:17-18: "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am come not to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be filfilled."
That was the big guy, Jesus himself, being quoted.
Gerryh: By your logic, murder doesn't need to be in the Decalogue, either. BTW, there is more slavery now in the world than at any time in human history. . .
Yeah, about the flood story - it is still ripped off from other cultures, and is still impossible and prima facie wrong.
Plate tectonics would have been great to know - it would have proved that God knew something we didn't already.
Germ theory of disease? Didn't bother with that one, huh? I understand.
As for reading Matthew, look where my Jesus quote was cited from.
Learn your own bible, gerryh - aren't you the christian here?
Pangloss
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 9,067
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
January 31st, 2008, 01:33 PM
They provide the basis on which Paul is able to make his stand against James (jesus)-is able to extol the supremacy of faith, while James extols the supremacy of the Law.
pg288 The Dead Sea Scrolls Desception (1991) Letter to the Romans (1:17) Letter to the Calatians (3:11)
Christians are actually Paulines and not Christians and Jesus is James.
Qumran was the Damascus Saul/Paul was on the way to when he had his little ephifeny, he was a double agent who was spirited out of the ME just after the revolt got underway, he is responsible for the Roman Catholic Church and not Jesus who quite likely never existed but was a cover for James who did exist and is supported in original books/gospels found at Qumran they differ from the bible in some very interesting ways.
They provide the basis on which Paul is able to make his stand against James (jesus)-is able to extol the supremacy of faith, while James extols the supremacy of the Law.
pg288 The Dead Sea Scrolls Desception (1991) Letter to the Romans (1:17) Letter to the Calatians (3:11)
Christians are actually Paulines and not Christians and Jesus is James.
Qumran was the Damascus Saul/Paul was on the way to when he had his little ephifeny, he was a double agent who was spirited out of the ME just after the revolt got underway, he is responsible for the Roman Catholic Church and not Jesus who quite likely never existed but was a cover for James who did exist and is supported in original books/gospels found at Qumran they differ from the bible in some very interesting ways.
