Council Member
Posts: 1,926 
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 24th, 2007, 09:39 PM
Up until Jesus came, that was not possible and non-negotiable.
Because God created the first parents, set them in a ballpark (Earth) without their permission, set the rules for the game, and caused them to live within those rules without the hope of accomplishing them.
It sounds like I am painting a picture of an unfair God, but quite the opposite.
If one comes to understand what God did, one would die with appreciation.
For God loved and loves all His creatures and would have non of them be separated for ever with out Him.
How did He do it?
Mankind was given the right to sin when he gained knowledge of good and evil.
So throughout the ages of mankind, there were all sorts of attempts to identify a higher spiritual entity that mankind could relate to.
So images of all sorts were erected as gods.
Evil mankind also prevailed to the slaughter of millions over the ages.
God had to go to the beginning, if He was to capture all the sin that was committed amongst all of mankind, as pictured by the number 7 or the 7-day creation story, plus, all of the yet unborn future souls possibility of sins, encapsulate all the sins collected into one body (Lamb for the sacrifice), and have mankind offer it back to God as a ransom for mankind's souls.
Means, God provided the ransom and not mankind.
So, the beast is the sacrificial lamb (Symbolism) and the great ***** is the lamb who loves the souls of all mankind, written in a form that depicted the events of the times, but seen not for the events themselves, but to be seen in the spiritual sense the battle that was completed spiritually.
Jesus had to become that which mankind was sentenced with, so in essences, He became the greatest sinner ever to exist, as He held the sins of the entire world, and as God, paid the price for all of them.
It's a pretty simple plan, but mankind has added to it to where the whole plan has been clouded over with.
God is not naive to any of it, but is ever watchful and in charge of the whole thing.
That is why, to read the bible without having the spirit of God to open our eyes to see, we will be blinded and see only those things which depict events that may or may not happen.
It that is the case then, we have what we have today, and uncertain, unpredictable Armageddon scenario, of which it's any body's guess.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting s_lone
What the bible tells me, is that God has to take the sins of the world (In totality) pay the price for them in order to liberate mankind to again have entrance to His presence.
Well I'm not sure that Jesus is the Beast according to AJ...that's what he seems to say... but AJ will have to confirm that...
Up until Jesus came, that was not possible and non-negotiable.
Because God created the first parents, set them in a ballpark (Earth) without their permission, set the rules for the game, and caused them to live within those rules without the hope of accomplishing them.
It sounds like I am painting a picture of an unfair God, but quite the opposite.
If one comes to understand what God did, one would die with appreciation.
For God loved and loves all His creatures and would have non of them be separated for ever with out Him.
How did He do it?
Mankind was given the right to sin when he gained knowledge of good and evil.
So throughout the ages of mankind, there were all sorts of attempts to identify a higher spiritual entity that mankind could relate to.
So images of all sorts were erected as gods.
Evil mankind also prevailed to the slaughter of millions over the ages.
God had to go to the beginning, if He was to capture all the sin that was committed amongst all of mankind, as pictured by the number 7 or the 7-day creation story, plus, all of the yet unborn future souls possibility of sins, encapsulate all the sins collected into one body (Lamb for the sacrifice), and have mankind offer it back to God as a ransom for mankind's souls.
Means, God provided the ransom and not mankind.
So, the beast is the sacrificial lamb (Symbolism) and the great ***** is the lamb who loves the souls of all mankind, written in a form that depicted the events of the times, but seen not for the events themselves, but to be seen in the spiritual sense the battle that was completed spiritually.
Jesus had to become that which mankind was sentenced with, so in essences, He became the greatest sinner ever to exist, as He held the sins of the entire world, and as God, paid the price for all of them.
It's a pretty simple plan, but mankind has added to it to where the whole plan has been clouded over with.
God is not naive to any of it, but is ever watchful and in charge of the whole thing.
That is why, to read the bible without having the spirit of God to open our eyes to see, we will be blinded and see only those things which depict events that may or may not happen.
It that is the case then, we have what we have today, and uncertain, unpredictable Armageddon scenario, of which it's any body's guess.
Peace>>>AJ
House Member
Posts: 3,638 
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
October 27th, 2007, 03:59 PM
Quoting look3467
That's one of the points that's always given me pause, essentially because it means god cannot have the characteristics usually ascribed to him. He got it wrong when he set things up the first time, or else it was a deliberate setup, and he expresses considerable chagrin and surprise when he discovers his creatures have eaten from the tree he forbade them. Like he couldn't see that coming? Either way, he's neither omnipotent nor omniscient and is thus, assuming he exists at all, not worthy of unconditional worship.
... and caused them to live within those rules without the hope of accomplishing them.
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 27th, 2007, 05:08 PM
The tree of knowledge is just a way of giving us the story that caused our down fall.
If a baby is born, it is already condemned to die. When? Who knows.
But if that baby never receives no knowledge of any kind,it will be much like an animal.
Intelligence than is a gift disguised as a curse of which only God himself could take away. Of which He did.
He knew exactly what He was doing and what the ramifications all of His creation would bring.
He fooled us intentionally so that we may have the right to challenge Him, and of course, that is very well demonstrated on these forums.
I have posted extensively with hints here and there about that (Deliberate delusion) and hopefully some may pick up on it.
But, to Gods credit, He also provided a way to amend the perceived deception, by offering up His Son on our behalf.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Dexter Sinister
"It was a deliberate set up", that's a good observation because that is exactly what transpired.
That's one of the points that's always given me pause, essentially because it means god cannot have the characteristics usually ascribed to him. He got it wrong when he set things up the first time, or else it was a deliberate setup, and he expresses considerable chagrin and surprise when he discovers his creatures have eaten from the tree he forbade them. Like he couldn't see that coming? Either way, he's neither omnipotent nor omniscient and is thus, assuming he exists at all, not worthy of unconditional worship.
The tree of knowledge is just a way of giving us the story that caused our down fall.
If a baby is born, it is already condemned to die. When? Who knows.
But if that baby never receives no knowledge of any kind,it will be much like an animal.
Intelligence than is a gift disguised as a curse of which only God himself could take away. Of which He did.
He knew exactly what He was doing and what the ramifications all of His creation would bring.
He fooled us intentionally so that we may have the right to challenge Him, and of course, that is very well demonstrated on these forums.
I have posted extensively with hints here and there about that (Deliberate delusion) and hopefully some may pick up on it.
But, to Gods credit, He also provided a way to amend the perceived deception, by offering up His Son on our behalf.
Peace>>>AJ
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
October 27th, 2007, 05:44 PM
Quoting look3467
Thanks look, for taking the time to explain why you do not believe it to be the pope.
That is a popular notion. But he is no different than you or I, for he is covered by the blood of the lamb too.
Peace>>>AJ
Peace>>>AJ
House Member
Posts: 3,638
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
October 28th, 2007, 01:52 AM
I simply cannot believe any just, loving, and rational god would behave that way. If there is a god with the characteristics usually attributed to him (which I don't believe), the possibility of redemption must always be open. And if there isn't, this is all irrelevant, this life is all there is, so make the best you can of it. Love and care for each other, be kind to each other, try to make a positive difference, leave the world a better place than you found it. That's the core of my ethics, simple humanism, and what I understand to be the heart of Jesus' message. I don't believe Jesus was divine, but he was a smart and perceptive guy who's reported as having said some very sensible things, and a lot of mystical nonsense designed to serve Paul The Tentmaker's political agenda.
Quoting look3467
Yeah, I've picked up on it, and I don't believe a word of it. That's a rotten trick, to deliberately set up a situation he knows we'll perceive incorrectly, then cause his own son to die horribly in order to show us a way out of it, while adding parenthetically--at least according to some so-called Christian groups--that if we don't buy his solution we get to fry forever in the fires of Hell. If when I die I find out that any of this is actually true, I'll tell god to his face that I think he's a liar, a cheat, and a bully. I'll be headed for Hell anyway, there's nothing he could do to make it any worse at that point. What's he going to do, condemn me for eternity plus a day? Might give me a little reputation in Hell though. "Don't mess with that guy, he told god to his face that he's an a$$hole." Maybe the Beelzebubbas will think twice about trying to sodomize me in the sulfur pits.
I have posted extensively with hints here and there about that (Deliberate delusion) and hopefully some may pick up on it.
But, to Gods credit, He also provided a way to amend the perceived deception, by offering up His Son on our behalf.
But, to Gods credit, He also provided a way to amend the perceived deception, by offering up His Son on our behalf.
I simply cannot believe any just, loving, and rational god would behave that way. If there is a god with the characteristics usually attributed to him (which I don't believe), the possibility of redemption must always be open. And if there isn't, this is all irrelevant, this life is all there is, so make the best you can of it. Love and care for each other, be kind to each other, try to make a positive difference, leave the world a better place than you found it. That's the core of my ethics, simple humanism, and what I understand to be the heart of Jesus' message. I don't believe Jesus was divine, but he was a smart and perceptive guy who's reported as having said some very sensible things, and a lot of mystical nonsense designed to serve Paul The Tentmaker's political agenda.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,201
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
October 28th, 2007, 07:31 AM
Identifying the Beast as Jesus him/it/herself is novel, but I maintain that it,s me. It,s always been me or you or every living human, and it's never been hidden from us, every phillosophy or method has identified the self as the beast and no other.
Lay off the other animals 3467, we are animals, flesh and blood, of the one for the one and by the one.
Identifying the Beast as Jesus him/it/herself is novel, but I maintain that it,s me. It,s always been me or you or every living human, and it's never been hidden from us, every phillosophy or method has identified the self as the beast and no other.
Lay off the other animals 3467, we are animals, flesh and blood, of the one for the one and by the one.
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 28th, 2007, 11:28 AM
That's a rotten trick, to deliberately set up a situation he knows we'll perceive incorrectly, then cause his own son to die horribly in order to show us a way out of it, while adding parenthetically-->>>Dexter
How else could God give us the same qualities that He has and expect us to exercises them in a pure and perfect world?
He had to subject us with those qualities into an in-perfect world of the flesh in order that those qualities may be exercised as a matter of choice.
Given a set of standards which are inherent in all souls by which all souls have for self governing are what you have described as having the same qualities of that master quote: "That's the core of my ethics, simple humanism, and what I understand to be the heart of Jesus' message. and "...this is all irrelevant, this life is all there is, so make the best you can of it. Love and care for each other, be kind to each other, try to make a positive difference, leave the world a better place than you found it"...
The bible speaks of just that view :
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.
Which means, that all souls have an inner element of God in them.
You have a right to explicitly judge God unfavorably, but to my knowledge He is greater than that, and would still find room to love you regardless.
As for Christianities view on hell, well that has always been a scare tactic of sorts in order to scare people to come to God.
When in reality, it should be the opposite; as God with open arms sees and understands our travails and will wait for us to seek Him out in and during our adversities to reach down and comfort us, much as a parent does to their children.
Part of our travail in this world is to shift through all the confusion and find the truth as best as we can, for the effort expanded will not go unnoticed.
Peace>>>AJ
That's a rotten trick, to deliberately set up a situation he knows we'll perceive incorrectly, then cause his own son to die horribly in order to show us a way out of it, while adding parenthetically-->>>Dexter
How else could God give us the same qualities that He has and expect us to exercises them in a pure and perfect world?
He had to subject us with those qualities into an in-perfect world of the flesh in order that those qualities may be exercised as a matter of choice.
Given a set of standards which are inherent in all souls by which all souls have for self governing are what you have described as having the same qualities of that master quote: "That's the core of my ethics, simple humanism, and what I understand to be the heart of Jesus' message. and "...this is all irrelevant, this life is all there is, so make the best you can of it. Love and care for each other, be kind to each other, try to make a positive difference, leave the world a better place than you found it"...
The bible speaks of just that view :
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.
Which means, that all souls have an inner element of God in them.
You have a right to explicitly judge God unfavorably, but to my knowledge He is greater than that, and would still find room to love you regardless.
As for Christianities view on hell, well that has always been a scare tactic of sorts in order to scare people to come to God.
When in reality, it should be the opposite; as God with open arms sees and understands our travails and will wait for us to seek Him out in and during our adversities to reach down and comfort us, much as a parent does to their children.
Part of our travail in this world is to shift through all the confusion and find the truth as best as we can, for the effort expanded will not go unnoticed.
Peace>>>AJ
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 28th, 2007, 11:33 AM
Anti-Christ can be said of each one of us if we resist His love for us as been anti-Him.
Look, God made it very simple, but mankind has convoluted the whole message to it's own self interests.
If we but follow this simple message:
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Doing that, nobody can go wrong.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting darkbeaver
Yes, in a way we are our own enemy, because we can self destruct if left to this world without the help of God for the inner man in us.
Identifying the Beast as Jesus him/it/herself is novel, but I maintain that it,s me. It,s always been me or you or every living human, and it's never been hidden from us, every phillosophy or method has identified the self as the beast and no other.
Lay off the other animals 3467, we are animals, flesh and blood, of the one for the one and by the one.
Lay off the other animals 3467, we are animals, flesh and blood, of the one for the one and by the one.
Anti-Christ can be said of each one of us if we resist His love for us as been anti-Him.
Look, God made it very simple, but mankind has convoluted the whole message to it's own self interests.
If we but follow this simple message:
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Doing that, nobody can go wrong.
Peace>>>AJ
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 28th, 2007, 11:35 AM
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Walter
Well..............I would certainly look into that if I were you! Always question things in order so that you may be at peace in your mind about what you believe in. My union keeps telling me that Mike Harris is the beast. I thought it was PET and his son, Cretin.
Peace>>>AJ
Electoral Member
Posts: 502
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
October 28th, 2007, 12:32 PM
Oh, and ple-e-e-ase don't hit me with some of that old "Away Satan" mythology...
I've already got him locked up....
Quoting look3467
OK ,as you think one of the beasts creating the sufferring of Man is a person, I'll go along with your "idol worship", who is it???? ( I'm expecting you to say me, so if you want, go ahead) This is a challenge to all believers and non believers alike, have you wisdom?
I know who it is, and I dare say if I were to reveal it in this thread I will become an outcast.
So, I will give you all a chance to tell me if I am wrong, but first, lets hear it from you all, and at some point I will reveal it.
Peace>>>AJ
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
I know who it is, and I dare say if I were to reveal it in this thread I will become an outcast.
So, I will give you all a chance to tell me if I am wrong, but first, lets hear it from you all, and at some point I will reveal it.
Peace>>>AJ
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Oh, and ple-e-e-ase don't hit me with some of that old "Away Satan" mythology...
I've already got him locked up....
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 28th, 2007, 12:47 PM
In order for Him to take away the sins of the world, He has to become the worlds beasts of beasts, above all the greatest if He is to exclude no one.
If you have him locked up, then I applaud you, for you must know who it is then.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Northboy
Jesus is a beast of beasts, meaning that He has become sin for all of us.
OK ,as you think one of the beasts creating the sufferring of Man is a person, I'll go along with your "idol worship", who is it???? ( I'm expecting you to say me, so if you want, go ahead)
Oh, and ple-e-e-ase don't hit me with some of that old "Away Satan" mythology...
I've already got him locked up....
Oh, and ple-e-e-ase don't hit me with some of that old "Away Satan" mythology...
I've already got him locked up....
In order for Him to take away the sins of the world, He has to become the worlds beasts of beasts, above all the greatest if He is to exclude no one.
If you have him locked up, then I applaud you, for you must know who it is then.
Peace>>>AJ
House Member
Posts: 3,638
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
October 28th, 2007, 01:36 PM
Quoting look3467
If he really had given us the same qualities he has we wouldn't have perceived the situation incorrectly.
That's a rotten trick, to deliberately set up a situation he knows we'll perceive incorrectly, then cause his own son to die horribly in order to show us a way out of it, while adding parenthetically-->>>Dexter
How else could God give us the same qualities that He has and expect us to exercises them in a pure and perfect world?
How else could God give us the same qualities that He has and expect us to exercises them in a pure and perfect world?
Electoral Member
Posts: 502
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
October 28th, 2007, 01:42 PM
All names/things are "Angelspeak" metaphors and do not relate to a specific individual, yet individuals can be ruled by them....
666 "The Beast" = what would be called the spirit of gold, but more accurately today= GDP...
Materialism, Andy Materialism is how it manifested itself....
By the way, Andy, you have been a great spiritual guide and you deserve your place in Grace....
Sing, Andy, Sing, to your heart's content....
You'll find me here anytime you want to talk
Quoting look3467
This is an easy one, once you understand the code of the Book...
Jesus is a beast of beasts, meaning that He has become sin for all of us.
In order for Him to take away the sins of the world, He has to become the worlds beasts of beasts, above all the greatest if He is to exclude no one.
If you have him locked up, then I applaud you, for you must know who it is then.
Peace>>>AJ
In order for Him to take away the sins of the world, He has to become the worlds beasts of beasts, above all the greatest if He is to exclude no one.
If you have him locked up, then I applaud you, for you must know who it is then.
Peace>>>AJ
All names/things are "Angelspeak" metaphors and do not relate to a specific individual, yet individuals can be ruled by them....
666 "The Beast" = what would be called the spirit of gold, but more accurately today= GDP...
Materialism, Andy Materialism is how it manifested itself....
By the way, Andy, you have been a great spiritual guide and you deserve your place in Grace....
Sing, Andy, Sing, to your heart's content....
You'll find me here anytime you want to talk
Council Member
Posts: 1,926
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
October 28th, 2007, 05:25 PM
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
That indicates that the Lord knew what He was doing by keeping the tree of life away from us until a predetermined time when that tree should be made available to us.
Now, understand that there have been billions of people who lived and died without ever so much as heard about God, much less about Jesus, that could not re enter the presence of God.
Those souls were being held temporary in a prison called hell, until that time in which Jesus was to come. When He came, and was put to death, He went to that same place where these souls were kept and visited them.
He in then broke open the bars that held them as prisoners and liberated all souls to where there is no longer a holding place.
All this is described in the bible.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Quote:
If he really had given us the same qualities he has we wouldn't have perceived the situation incorrectly.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
That indicates that the Lord knew what He was doing by keeping the tree of life away from us until a predetermined time when that tree should be made available to us.
Now, understand that there have been billions of people who lived and died without ever so much as heard about God, much less about Jesus, that could not re enter the presence of God.
Those souls were being held temporary in a prison called hell, until that time in which Jesus was to come. When He came, and was put to death, He went to that same place where these souls were kept and visited them.
He in then broke open the bars that held them as prisoners and liberated all souls to where there is no longer a holding place.
All this is described in the bible.
Peace>>>AJ
Electoral Member
Posts: 502
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
October 28th, 2007, 05:40 PM
I love your music!!!!
Quoting look3467
The battle of Armageddon is what Jesus has to battle going to the cross. The book of Revelation is written about Jesus' travail and how He conquered the consequence of all sin in order to win salvation, not just for the righteous, but for the unrighteous still.
That the part where humanity is hung up, they can't believe that God would rescue the unrighteous as if they were righteous. Mankind's ways wouldn't have nothing to do with such a thought.
Fortunately, some are beginning to see it as well, but not so easy to see, considering that religion has dogmatically set the par for that what is thought of today.
There are bits and pieces amongst the different religions that give my view certain credibility.
I believe that a time has come were information INTERNET is bringing the world much closer together and with some very interesting Revelations along the lines of religious beliefs, and are been shown to be quite opposite of what has been the norm.
All of course is my own opinions, and they hold no weight.
Peace>>>AJ
That the part where humanity is hung up, they can't believe that God would rescue the unrighteous as if they were righteous. Mankind's ways wouldn't have nothing to do with such a thought.
Fortunately, some are beginning to see it as well, but not so easy to see, considering that religion has dogmatically set the par for that what is thought of today.
There are bits and pieces amongst the different religions that give my view certain credibility.
I believe that a time has come were information INTERNET is bringing the world much closer together and with some very interesting Revelations along the lines of religious beliefs, and are been shown to be quite opposite of what has been the norm.
All of course is my own opinions, and they hold no weight.
Peace>>>AJ
I love your music!!!!
