Council Member
Posts: 1,679 
March 11th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Jesus said to forgive 70 x 7; in other words forgive the sinner no matter the sin. Jesus supercedes Leviticus.
Leviticus seems pretty clear that we should hate the sinner too, or we should at least think badly enough of him to kill him. Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death;their blood shall be upon them." I'd agree at least that there's no room for interpretation there, nor is there any context around that verse that would mitigate it.
House Member
Posts: 2,761
Location: California
Location: California
March 11th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Quoting Walter
Does Jesus ever say anything specifically about homosexuals? Just curious because I've never heard it.
Jesus said to forgive 70 x 7; in other words forgive the sinner no matter the sin. Jesus supercedes Leviticus.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
March 11th, 2007, 08:01 PM
Quoting Walter
Do you believe blacks should't be seen as equals to whites too? Or women to men?
Who said anything about hate and rage? I just don't believe that homosexuality should be equivocated with heterosexuality.
Council Member
Posts: 1,679
March 11th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Quoting hermanntrude
Oops, I misread. I meant they should be seen as equal. (that second glass of wine is very good)
let me just get this right so i'm sure i didnt misunderstand you:
did you just say that you don't see black and white people as equals?
did you just say that you don't see black and white people as equals?
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Location: Newfoundland!
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March 11th, 2007, 08:15 PM
OK phew. It seemed from context that must be what u meant, but i was already mentally composing my rebuff
OK phew. It seemed from context that must be what u meant, but i was already mentally composing my rebuff
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Posts: 6,506
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Location: Newfoundland!
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Location: Newfoundland!
March 11th, 2007, 08:26 PM
Quoting snfu73
agreed. there are differences between black and white just as there are between homo and hetero, but all should be treated with the same respect
So, what is the difference? Why shouldn't hetrosexuals and homosexuals be seen as equals?
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Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 11th, 2007, 08:47 PM
My dear friends, the law was given to add degree to sin. And because of sin, we transgressed the law to the point of not being able to attain salvation.
Whether at one point or another, breaking the law was unavoidable.
Hence it says: Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
What this is saying to us is this: that despite any and all our efforts to meet the standard of the law for salvation, the law could never be met.
Rendering us all totally: hopeless.
There than had to be one that could meet the standard for all of us. That one had to be God Himself!
After all, He is the one who set it up in the first place, and we without choice were made subject to it.
So, God in Jesus came to fulfill every dot and tittle of the law, and took the penalty of it away from us.
That means that anybody in Christ is free from condemnation of the law.
The law no longer applies to hinder us from our salvation.
It does affect our relationship with God, as like a father and child relationship, were loving correction is administered on behalf of the child.
This correction comes as a form of spiritual vexation, as well as physical trauma.
So as not to be misunderstood, corrections are inflicted by the world on our own selves as we challenge the laws of God and man.
As far as homosexuality, there is a standard set in the bible concerning that behavior.
If one chooses to indulge in such actions, than God will give them up to the world to administer corrective actions. And we all know that the world has no mercy.
So, we need to treat that action as a transgression of the standard and deal with each individual separately to curb that behavior with the help of God.
We all have choices, and some are made to our own demise. That is human nature.
To curb human natures desires is a change of heart. And only God can do that if we let Him.
If we don’t have in society, standards for governing ourselves, than the there will be nothing but confusion as to what is right from what is not right.
The key to having laws is to apply them with an eye to mercy and not condemnation.
That was what the first law did, and what Jesus came to change.
Peace>>>AJ
My dear friends, the law was given to add degree to sin. And because of sin, we transgressed the law to the point of not being able to attain salvation.
Whether at one point or another, breaking the law was unavoidable.
Hence it says: Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
What this is saying to us is this: that despite any and all our efforts to meet the standard of the law for salvation, the law could never be met.
Rendering us all totally: hopeless.
There than had to be one that could meet the standard for all of us. That one had to be God Himself!
After all, He is the one who set it up in the first place, and we without choice were made subject to it.
So, God in Jesus came to fulfill every dot and tittle of the law, and took the penalty of it away from us.
That means that anybody in Christ is free from condemnation of the law.
The law no longer applies to hinder us from our salvation.
It does affect our relationship with God, as like a father and child relationship, were loving correction is administered on behalf of the child.
This correction comes as a form of spiritual vexation, as well as physical trauma.
So as not to be misunderstood, corrections are inflicted by the world on our own selves as we challenge the laws of God and man.
As far as homosexuality, there is a standard set in the bible concerning that behavior.
If one chooses to indulge in such actions, than God will give them up to the world to administer corrective actions. And we all know that the world has no mercy.
So, we need to treat that action as a transgression of the standard and deal with each individual separately to curb that behavior with the help of God.
We all have choices, and some are made to our own demise. That is human nature.
To curb human natures desires is a change of heart. And only God can do that if we let Him.
If we don’t have in society, standards for governing ourselves, than the there will be nothing but confusion as to what is right from what is not right.
The key to having laws is to apply them with an eye to mercy and not condemnation.
That was what the first law did, and what Jesus came to change.
Peace>>>AJ
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Posts: 3,507
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 11th, 2007, 09:03 PM
Quoting Lithp
That wasn't my purpose. They disprove your point. It is *not* clear from scripture whether the Old Testament laws apply to Christians or not, because the New Testament makes both claims. You didn't address my point, which is that you're cherry-picking things that suit your prejudices. You simply claimed I'm wrong and went into a largely irrelevant argument from authority.
none of those passages prove your point.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
March 11th, 2007, 09:22 PM
Anyway, I don't think antigay sentiments should be looked at any differently than racism or sexism...it's all the same. One can justify it by attributing it to god...but I don't buy that.
Quoting look3467
Huh??
My dear friends, the law was given to add degree to sin. And because of sin, we transgressed the law to the point of not being able to attain salvation.
Whether at one point or another, breaking the law was unavoidable.
Hence it says: Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
What this is saying to us is this: that despite any and all our efforts to meet the standard of the law for salvation, the law could never be met.
Rendering us all totally: hopeless.
There than had to be one that could meet the standard for all of us. That one had to be God Himself!
After all, He is the one who set it up in the first place, and we without choice were made subject to it.
So, God in Jesus came to fulfill every dot and tittle of the law, and took the penalty of it away from us.
That means that anybody in Christ is free from condemnation of the law.
The law no longer applies to hinder us from our salvation.
It does affect our relationship with God, as like a father and child relationship, were loving correction is administered on behalf of the child.
This correction comes as a form of spiritual vexation, as well as physical trauma.
So as not to be misunderstood, corrections are inflicted by the world on our own selves as we challenge the laws of God and man.
As far as homosexuality, there is a standard set in the bible concerning that behavior.
If one chooses to indulge in such actions, than God will give them up to the world to administer corrective actions. And we all know that the world has no mercy.
So, we need to treat that action as a transgression of the standard and deal with each individual separately to curb that behavior with the help of God.
We all have choices, and some are made to our own demise. That is human nature.
To curb human natures desires is a change of heart. And only God can do that if we let Him.
If we don’t have in society, standards for governing ourselves, than the there will be nothing but confusion as to what is right from what is not right.
The key to having laws is to apply them with an eye to mercy and not condemnation.
That was what the first law did, and what Jesus came to change.
Peace>>>AJ
Whether at one point or another, breaking the law was unavoidable.
Hence it says: Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
What this is saying to us is this: that despite any and all our efforts to meet the standard of the law for salvation, the law could never be met.
Rendering us all totally: hopeless.
There than had to be one that could meet the standard for all of us. That one had to be God Himself!
After all, He is the one who set it up in the first place, and we without choice were made subject to it.
So, God in Jesus came to fulfill every dot and tittle of the law, and took the penalty of it away from us.
That means that anybody in Christ is free from condemnation of the law.
The law no longer applies to hinder us from our salvation.
It does affect our relationship with God, as like a father and child relationship, were loving correction is administered on behalf of the child.
This correction comes as a form of spiritual vexation, as well as physical trauma.
So as not to be misunderstood, corrections are inflicted by the world on our own selves as we challenge the laws of God and man.
As far as homosexuality, there is a standard set in the bible concerning that behavior.
If one chooses to indulge in such actions, than God will give them up to the world to administer corrective actions. And we all know that the world has no mercy.
So, we need to treat that action as a transgression of the standard and deal with each individual separately to curb that behavior with the help of God.
We all have choices, and some are made to our own demise. That is human nature.
To curb human natures desires is a change of heart. And only God can do that if we let Him.
If we don’t have in society, standards for governing ourselves, than the there will be nothing but confusion as to what is right from what is not right.
The key to having laws is to apply them with an eye to mercy and not condemnation.
That was what the first law did, and what Jesus came to change.
Peace>>>AJ
Anyway, I don't think antigay sentiments should be looked at any differently than racism or sexism...it's all the same. One can justify it by attributing it to god...but I don't buy that.
Member
Posts: 76
March 11th, 2007, 10:55 PM
If by "prejudices" you mean the small list of GOD"s facts I provided you can take it up with HIM. If you consider the will of GOD irrelevant and prejudicial then nothing will convince you otherwise including, as I said before, seeing JESUS in person.
Again. I have no difficulty integrating the Old teachings with the New.
Some people cannot accept a literal interpretation of bible text. Fine. I know that there are parables and symbolism in the bible. I also know that nothing is impossible for GOD.
Did Jonah really spend 3 days in a whale? Yes. Was there really a flood? Yes. Has more than one person risen from the dead? Yes. If you think it is impossible it is - for you. not for GOD.
I'm pretty sure that the creator of all the infinite universe can make stuff like this happen.
peace
Quoting Dexter Sinister
None of the passages you quote disprove anything I wrote. The cherry picking is on your part (hence your list of quotes from the bible). My post did not highlight any prejudices (I have no idea where that came from). The facts are the facts. If you disagree with the scripture then take it up with the Creator. Whereas it appears you would rather pick and chose which of GOD's laws to follow (that is to say if you believe in GOD), I on the other hand accept that I must follow them all (unfortunately I'm not doing very well though- sigh).
That wasn't my purpose. They disprove your point. It is *not* clear from scripture whether the Old Testament laws apply to Christians or not, because the New Testament makes both claims. You didn't address my point, which is that you're cherry-picking things that suit your prejudices. You simply claimed I'm wrong and went into a largely irrelevant argument from authority.
If by "prejudices" you mean the small list of GOD"s facts I provided you can take it up with HIM. If you consider the will of GOD irrelevant and prejudicial then nothing will convince you otherwise including, as I said before, seeing JESUS in person.
Again. I have no difficulty integrating the Old teachings with the New.
Some people cannot accept a literal interpretation of bible text. Fine. I know that there are parables and symbolism in the bible. I also know that nothing is impossible for GOD.
Did Jonah really spend 3 days in a whale? Yes. Was there really a flood? Yes. Has more than one person risen from the dead? Yes. If you think it is impossible it is - for you. not for GOD.
I'm pretty sure that the creator of all the infinite universe can make stuff like this happen.
peace
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
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March 11th, 2007, 11:35 PM
I don't think you have any comprehension of what I'm talking about, or what you're talking about. I think you're so sure you've got the truth of it you can't conceive of how anybody could have a different view, and you're certainly not alone here in that. There was a time about 40 years ago when I would have agreed with everything you say. I am an atheist by conviction despite a very religious upbringing, an apostate who fell away from it because I found too many inconsistencies and illogical positions in it, and too many questions were simply disallowed. All the advice and encouragement I was given by parents and pastors and friends about praying and seeking and studying came up with results exactly opposite to what they told me I could expect. So I abandoned it all as useless, and I've never seriously regretted it. I miss the certainty sometimes, and the promises of better things to come, but I now view them as logical fallacies and wishful thinking. I don't believe your god, or any god, exists at all, I don't believe there is any such thing as god's laws, and I don't believe any argument rooted in god's supposed authority has any merit at all, because I don't buy the premise.
I don't think you have any comprehension of what I'm talking about, or what you're talking about. I think you're so sure you've got the truth of it you can't conceive of how anybody could have a different view, and you're certainly not alone here in that. There was a time about 40 years ago when I would have agreed with everything you say. I am an atheist by conviction despite a very religious upbringing, an apostate who fell away from it because I found too many inconsistencies and illogical positions in it, and too many questions were simply disallowed. All the advice and encouragement I was given by parents and pastors and friends about praying and seeking and studying came up with results exactly opposite to what they told me I could expect. So I abandoned it all as useless, and I've never seriously regretted it. I miss the certainty sometimes, and the promises of better things to come, but I now view them as logical fallacies and wishful thinking. I don't believe your god, or any god, exists at all, I don't believe there is any such thing as god's laws, and I don't believe any argument rooted in god's supposed authority has any merit at all, because I don't buy the premise.
Council Member
Posts: 1,679
April 16th, 2007, 03:08 PM
Last Updated: Monday, April 16, 2007 | 12:49 PM ET
CBC News
Last Updated: Monday, April 16, 2007 | 12:49 PM ET
CBC News
Quote:
What does he mean threatening? It's alrady happening.
The spiritual leader of the world's Anglicans says an increasingly bitter disagreement over the issue of same-sex blessings is threatening to divide the church.
