The Padre
Posts: 4,558 
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
December 18th, 2006, 05:02 AM
Knowing that the internet is a difficult place to gain a complete picture of people you have not physically met, I have no choice but to gain an impression from what you write. Your exegesis reflects to me an ignorance of the Scriptures that is manifested by an inability to read them correctly.
Quoting Nikki
I am offended that you are implying that i have not infact read the bible. It would be stupid of me to claim such things about god if I have not read the bible. I wasn't ignoring your comment I was simply typing but do you know how long it takes to flip through the bible and find **** that i have marked off. and then type it. Roughly 45 minutes/ 
Knowing that the internet is a difficult place to gain a complete picture of people you have not physically met, I have no choice but to gain an impression from what you write. Your exegesis reflects to me an ignorance of the Scriptures that is manifested by an inability to read them correctly.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 524 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Location: Montreal, Quebec
December 18th, 2006, 02:01 PM
From the Navarre Bible Commentary on Genesis 1: Quote:
Creation is the beginnrng of salvation history and the foundation on which are built God's salvific plans, which reach their climax in Jesus Christ. The biblical accounts of creation focus on the action of God; it is he who sets the scene and he is the creator, too, of those who will act out the drama and with whom he will enter into dialogue.
The sacred text incorporates ancient traditions about the origin of the world; scholars identify two separate accounts in the early chapters of Genesis. The first of these emphasizes God's transcendence over all created things, and is written in a very schematic style; this account (1:1-2:4a) is attributed to the "Priestly" tradition. The second, which also covers the fall and the expulsion from paradise, speaks of God in an anthropomorphic way; this more vivid, more popular account (2:4b-4:26) is considered to belong to the "Yahwistic" tradition. Here we have two different ways in which the Word of God (not intending to provide a scientific explanation of the origin of the world and of man) expounds the basic facts and truths on the subject in a way people can readily understand, inviting us to see me greatness and love of God manifested first in creation and then in the history of mankind. "Our faith teaches us," St. Josemaria Escriva writes, "that all creation, the movement of the earth and the other heavenly bodies, the good actions of creatures and all the good that has been achieved in history, in short everything, comes from God and directed toward him" ("Christ Is Passing By", 130).
In the first account the Bible offers profound teaching about God, about man and about the world. About God, who is the only God, creator of all things and man in particular; he transcends the created world and is its supreme master. About man, who is the image and likeness of God, above all other created beings and placed in the world to rule all creation. About the world, which is something good and is at the service of man.
Even though the Navarre does give a nod to the two source theory, the wider point it makes is that it is the same story of the same events told in two different ways to bring out some of the fullness of the significance. I kind of compare it to the two books of Maccabees, which both tell the story of a Jewish revolt against the Greeks, but each from a different perspective. Both tell the story, but taken together, we are given more detail and insight.
__________________
Quoting Nikki
Genesis for example has two contradictory sotries of Creation. In Genesist 1:20 and 21, "every living creature" Is brought forth from the waters, including ever winged fowl." however then in 2:19 it says "god brings forth every beast of the field and every fowl of the air from dry ground.
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Genesis for example has two contradictory sotries of Creation. In Genesist 1:20 and 21, "every living creature" Is brought forth from the waters, including ever winged fowl." however then in 2:19 it says "god brings forth every beast of the field and every fowl of the air from dry ground.
.
From the Navarre Bible Commentary on Genesis 1: Quote:
Creation is the beginnrng of salvation history and the foundation on which are built God's salvific plans, which reach their climax in Jesus Christ. The biblical accounts of creation focus on the action of God; it is he who sets the scene and he is the creator, too, of those who will act out the drama and with whom he will enter into dialogue.
The sacred text incorporates ancient traditions about the origin of the world; scholars identify two separate accounts in the early chapters of Genesis. The first of these emphasizes God's transcendence over all created things, and is written in a very schematic style; this account (1:1-2:4a) is attributed to the "Priestly" tradition. The second, which also covers the fall and the expulsion from paradise, speaks of God in an anthropomorphic way; this more vivid, more popular account (2:4b-4:26) is considered to belong to the "Yahwistic" tradition. Here we have two different ways in which the Word of God (not intending to provide a scientific explanation of the origin of the world and of man) expounds the basic facts and truths on the subject in a way people can readily understand, inviting us to see me greatness and love of God manifested first in creation and then in the history of mankind. "Our faith teaches us," St. Josemaria Escriva writes, "that all creation, the movement of the earth and the other heavenly bodies, the good actions of creatures and all the good that has been achieved in history, in short everything, comes from God and directed toward him" ("Christ Is Passing By", 130).
In the first account the Bible offers profound teaching about God, about man and about the world. About God, who is the only God, creator of all things and man in particular; he transcends the created world and is its supreme master. About man, who is the image and likeness of God, above all other created beings and placed in the world to rule all creation. About the world, which is something good and is at the service of man.
Even though the Navarre does give a nod to the two source theory, the wider point it makes is that it is the same story of the same events told in two different ways to bring out some of the fullness of the significance. I kind of compare it to the two books of Maccabees, which both tell the story of a Jewish revolt against the Greeks, but each from a different perspective. Both tell the story, but taken together, we are given more detail and insight.
__________________
Council Member
Posts: 1,939
Location: china
Location: china
December 19th, 2006, 01:49 PM
Hi Sanctus ,
Without meditation, there is no self-knowledge; without self-knowledge, there is no meditation. So you must begin to know what you are. You cannot go far without beginning near, without understanding your daily process of thought, feeling, and action. In other words, thought must understand its own working, and when you see yourself in operation, you will observe that thought moves from the known to the known. You cannot think about the unknown. That which you know is not real because what you know is only in time. To be free from the net of time is the important concern, not to think about the unknown, because you cannot think about the unknown. The answers to your prayers are of the known. To receive the unknown, the mind itself must become the unknown. The mind is the result of the thought process, the result of time, and this thought process must come to an end. The mind cannot think of that which is eternal, timeless; therefore, the mind must be free of time, the time process of the mind must be dissolved. Only when the mind is completely free from yesterday, and is therefore not using the present as a means to the future, is it capable of receiving the eternal. …Therefore, our concern in meditation is to know oneself, not only superficially, but the whole content of the inner, hidden consciousness. Without knowing all that and being free of its conditioning, you cannot possibly go beyond the mind's limits. That is why the thought process must cease, and for this cessation there must be knowledge of oneself. Therefore meditation is the beginning of wisdom, which is the understanding of one's own mind and heart and Love .
Hi Sanctus ,
Without meditation, there is no self-knowledge; without self-knowledge, there is no meditation. So you must begin to know what you are. You cannot go far without beginning near, without understanding your daily process of thought, feeling, and action. In other words, thought must understand its own working, and when you see yourself in operation, you will observe that thought moves from the known to the known. You cannot think about the unknown. That which you know is not real because what you know is only in time. To be free from the net of time is the important concern, not to think about the unknown, because you cannot think about the unknown. The answers to your prayers are of the known. To receive the unknown, the mind itself must become the unknown. The mind is the result of the thought process, the result of time, and this thought process must come to an end. The mind cannot think of that which is eternal, timeless; therefore, the mind must be free of time, the time process of the mind must be dissolved. Only when the mind is completely free from yesterday, and is therefore not using the present as a means to the future, is it capable of receiving the eternal. …Therefore, our concern in meditation is to know oneself, not only superficially, but the whole content of the inner, hidden consciousness. Without knowing all that and being free of its conditioning, you cannot possibly go beyond the mind's limits. That is why the thought process must cease, and for this cessation there must be knowledge of oneself. Therefore meditation is the beginning of wisdom, which is the understanding of one's own mind and heart and Love .
Les
Posts: 6,139
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
December 19th, 2006, 02:09 PM
That's one view. I've noticed that in some cultures people gain self-knowledge (self-awareness, etc,) by observing themselves reflected in the outside world, whereas other people see the outside world as a reflection of them. People constantly think about the unknown. A few simply accept the unknown as unknown or non-existent.
Anyway, as the power of thought (among other things) is a part of us, I think it's regressive to say that we should rid ourselves of thought, emotion, whatever else we are made up of. To deny a part of ourselves is to deny our humanity.
Um, man created gods n whatnot in his own image.
That's one view. I've noticed that in some cultures people gain self-knowledge (self-awareness, etc,) by observing themselves reflected in the outside world, whereas other people see the outside world as a reflection of them. People constantly think about the unknown. A few simply accept the unknown as unknown or non-existent.
Anyway, as the power of thought (among other things) is a part of us, I think it's regressive to say that we should rid ourselves of thought, emotion, whatever else we are made up of. To deny a part of ourselves is to deny our humanity.
Um, man created gods n whatnot in his own image.
Council Member
Posts: 1,939
Location: china
Location: china
December 19th, 2006, 02:48 PM
L Gilbert
People constantly think about the unknown.______________________________-___
They are obviously fooling them selfs ;...Known can only Know(think) Known,
one can't think about something he's not aware of.
I think it's regressive to say that we should rid ourselves of thought, emotion, whatever else we are made up of. ______________________________________
Why?
L Gilbert
People constantly think about the unknown.______________________________-___
They are obviously fooling them selfs ;...Known can only Know(think) Known,
one can't think about something he's not aware of.
I think it's regressive to say that we should rid ourselves of thought, emotion, whatever else we are made up of. ______________________________________
Why?
Les
Posts: 6,139
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
December 19th, 2006, 05:25 PM
I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.
Quoting china
One can still wonder about the unknown. Wondering is a form of thinking.
L Gilbert
People constantly think about the unknown.______________________________-___
They are obviously fooling them selfs ;...Known can only Know(think) Known,
one can't think about something he's not aware of.
People constantly think about the unknown.______________________________-___
They are obviously fooling them selfs ;...Known can only Know(think) Known,
one can't think about something he's not aware of.
Quote:
It's our nature to think, feel, etc. To attempt to rid ourselves of our nature is regressive, we'd revert back to amoeba and parameceums.
I think it's regressive to say that we should rid ourselves of thought, emotion, whatever else we are made up of. ______________________________________
Why?
Why?
I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.
Council Member
Posts: 1,939
Location: china
Location: china
December 19th, 2006, 07:40 PM
L Gilbert :It's our nature to think, feel, etc. To attempt to rid ourselves of our nature is regressive, we'd revert back to amoeba and parameceums. I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.______________________________
If you had only one hour to live, what would you do? Would you not arrange what is necessary outwardly, your affairs, your will, and so on? Would you not call your family and friends together and ask their forgiveness for the harm that you might have done to them, and forgive them for whatever harm they might have done to you? Would you not die completely to the things of the mind, to desires and to the world? And if it can be done for an hour, then it can also be done for the days and years that may remain…Try it and you will find out
L Gilbet :One can still wonder about the unknown. Wondering is a form of thinking.
Why don't you wonder for a while about something you don't know and and tell us what you come up with,ok? Obviously you can think about it too.
L Gilbert :It's our nature to think, feel, etc. To attempt to rid ourselves of our nature is regressive, we'd revert back to amoeba and parameceums.
I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.______________________________If you had only one hour to live, what would you do? Would you not arrange what is necessary outwardly, your affairs, your will, and so on? Would you not call your family and friends together and ask their forgiveness for the harm that you might have done to them, and forgive them for whatever harm they might have done to you? Would you not die completely to the things of the mind, to desires and to the world? And if it can be done for an hour, then it can also be done for the days and years that may remain…Try it and you will find out
L Gilbet :One can still wonder about the unknown. Wondering is a form of thinking.
Why don't you wonder for a while about something you don't know and and tell us what you come up with,ok? Obviously you can think about it too.
Les
Posts: 6,139
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
December 19th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Quoting china
I think I'd probably sit down and read as much of a book that I've been putting off reading for a while and cram in a couple or 3 bottles of stout.
L Gilbert :It's our nature to think, feel, etc. To attempt to rid ourselves of our nature is regressive, we'd revert back to amoeba and parameceums. I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.______________________________
If you had only one hour to live, what would you do? Would you not arrange what is necessary outwardly, your affairs, your will, and so on? Would you not call your family and friends together and ask their forgiveness for the harm that you might have done to them, and forgive them for whatever harm they might have done to you? Would you not die completely to the things of the mind, to desires and to the world? And if it can be done for an hour, then it can also be done for the days and years that may remain…Try it and you will find out
I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.______________________________If you had only one hour to live, what would you do? Would you not arrange what is necessary outwardly, your affairs, your will, and so on? Would you not call your family and friends together and ask their forgiveness for the harm that you might have done to them, and forgive them for whatever harm they might have done to you? Would you not die completely to the things of the mind, to desires and to the world? And if it can be done for an hour, then it can also be done for the days and years that may remain…Try it and you will find out
Quote:
Nah. I wonder about other things mostly, although I disn't know anything about string theory yet have wondered and then thought about it after having read a bit .
L Gilbet :One can still wonder about the unknown. Wondering is a form of thinking.
Why don't you wonder for a while about something you don't know and and tell us what you come up with,ok? Obviously you can think about it too.
Why don't you wonder for a while about something you don't know and and tell us what you come up with,ok? Obviously you can think about it too.
Genius
Posts: 864
Location: windsor,ontario
Location: windsor,ontario
January 29th, 2007, 10:39 PM
this is such a good message. kind of like, dont know where i read this, but i think alice in wonderland where the character says he tries to think one impossible thing a day or something like that.
Quoting china
L Gilbert :It's our nature to think, feel, etc. To attempt to rid ourselves of our nature is regressive, we'd revert back to amoeba and parameceums. I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.______________________________
If you had only one hour to live, what would you do? Would you not arrange what is necessary outwardly, your affairs, your will, and so on? Would you not call your family and friends together and ask their forgiveness for the harm that you might have done to them, and forgive them for whatever harm they might have done to you? Would you not die completely to the things of the mind, to desires and to the world? And if it can be done for an hour, then it can also be done for the days and years that may remain…Try it and you will find out
L Gilbet :One can still wonder about the unknown. Wondering is a form of thinking.
Why don't you wonder for a while about something you don't know and and tell us what you come up with,ok? Obviously you can think about it too.
I prefer to accept me as I am. Not to say I don't improve on me once in a while, but I don't actively try to rid myself of parts of me.______________________________If you had only one hour to live, what would you do? Would you not arrange what is necessary outwardly, your affairs, your will, and so on? Would you not call your family and friends together and ask their forgiveness for the harm that you might have done to them, and forgive them for whatever harm they might have done to you? Would you not die completely to the things of the mind, to desires and to the world? And if it can be done for an hour, then it can also be done for the days and years that may remain…Try it and you will find out
L Gilbet :One can still wonder about the unknown. Wondering is a form of thinking.
Why don't you wonder for a while about something you don't know and and tell us what you come up with,ok? Obviously you can think about it too.
this is such a good message. kind of like, dont know where i read this, but i think alice in wonderland where the character says he tries to think one impossible thing a day or something like that.
