Return to Me

Motar
#1
Like Charles Finney Said, the Pulpit is to Blame for America's Fall ? Charisma News (external - login to view)

The message above authored by Shane Idleman, lead pastor of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, California begins:

"I looked throughout America to find where her greatness originated. I looked for it in her harbors and on her shorelines, in her fertile fields and boundless prairies, and in her gold mines and vast world commerce, but it was not there. It was not until I went to the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her success. America is great because she is good, and if America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." (Alexis de Tocqueville, 1805-1859)

Revival in the body of Christ requires pastors to return to God in prayer, holiness, worship and preaching. Idelman's message:

"Therefore tell the people: This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty." (Zechariah 1:3 NIV)

Are you a Christian? Does this exhortation apply to you?
 
grainfedpraiboy
+1
#2
So why does God perpetually punish very religious and Christian countries like say Honduras? Why do pious Christian Middle East and African societies keep getting the short end of the stick century after century?

Seems to me if God made America great and a just bit more prayer and a bump in church attendance will fix what ails it what does that say about God when she ignores those who've never had the chance to experience greatness once but pray for it far more?
 
Motar
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by grainfedpraiboyView Post

So why does God perpetually punish very religious and Christian countries like say Honduras? Why do pious Christian Middle East and African societies keep getting the short end of the stick century after century?

Seems to me if God made America great and a just bit more prayer and a bump in church attendance will fix what ails it what does that say about God when she ignores those who've never had the chance to experience greatness once but pray for it far more?

God is punishing Honduras, GFPB? What is your understanding of "great"?
 
EagleSmack
+1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by grainfedpraiboyView Post

So why does God perpetually punish very religious and Christian countries like say Honduras? Why do pious Christian Middle East and African societies keep getting the short end of the stick century after century?

Seems to me if God made America great and a just bit more prayer and a bump in church attendance will fix what ails it what does that say about God when she ignores those who've never had the chance to experience greatness once but pray for it far more?

Do you think that his point went a little over your head?
 
Motar
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

What is your understanding of "great"?

"The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted." (Matthew 23:11-12 NIV)
 
Motar
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

Like Charles Finney Said, the Pulpit is to Blame for America's Fall ? Charisma News (external - login to view)

Revival in the body of Christ requires pastors to return to God in prayer, holiness, worship and preaching:

"Therefore tell the people: This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty." (Zechariah 1:3 NIV)

Are you a Christian? Does this exhortation apply to you?

Yes.

"For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17 NIV)
 
Tecumsehsbones
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

Yes.

"For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17 NIV)

That was what? 2000 years ago?

Sounds like the time for judgment to begin with God's household is past and gone.
 
Motar
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

That was what? 2000 years ago? Sounds like the time for judgment to begin with God's household is past and gone.

"Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed." (1 Peter 4:12-13 NIV)

In microscopic view, TB, the Lord is addressing first century Jewish Christians. Peter's epistle was penned between A.D. 64 and 67, during Nero's reign and the Roman persecution of the church. At this time, the glory of the Lamb of God has already been revealed.

In telescopic view, the Lord exhorts all believers to rejoice in trials as preparation for the revelation of the glory of Christ. The revelation of the glory of the Lion of Judah is yet to come.

 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#9
So. . . suffering is good? So why should I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, comfort the sick, and visit the imprisoned? Sounds like I'm just doing them out of the full enjoyment of their suffering.
 
JLM
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

So. . . suffering is good? So why should I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, comfort the sick, and visit the imprisoned? Sounds like I'm just doing them out of the full enjoyment of their suffering.

Absolutely, adversity builds character and who wants to deprive anyone of character?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#11
It's like the owner's manual for your mobile phone. Half contradictions, half pure bullsh*t.
 
Motar
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

So. . . suffering is good? So why should I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, comfort the sick, and visit the imprisoned? Sounds like I'm just doing them out of the full enjoyment of their suffering.

"If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name." (1 Peter 4:15-16 NIV)
 
bluebyrd35
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

"If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name." (1 Peter 4:15-16 NIV)

Good grief are you suggesting that the Christian God deliberately visits suffering for absolutely no reason on all humans and the sufferers should believe such a mad creature should be viewed as a merciful and fair God?? AWWKKK!!
 
Motar
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post

Good grief are you suggesting that the Christian God deliberately visits suffering for absolutely no reason on all humans and the sufferers should believe such a mad creature should be viewed as a merciful and fair God?? AWWKKK!!

The Christian God deliberately visits suffering for absolutely no reason on all humans, BB?
 
bluebyrd35
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

The Christian God deliberately visits suffering for absolutely no reason on all humans, BB?

Apparently according to the verses you quote. The garden of eden and original sin doesn't stand up to any sort of sane scrutiny. So explain again the reasons why humans supposedly designed by GOD could go so wrong as to demand eternal suffering over centuries and then after death.

The scenario of the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve and the Serpent is unbelievable. As a parent would you toss your babes into a garden with a "do not touch" order, abandon them and expect them to respect it?? These days we charge such parents with neglect and abandonment.

Rarely human children told not to touch obeys, that is how we are made. So we are supposedly punished by ? superior beings for doing exactly what we were designed to do. Of course without curiosity, how far above cattle would be we be??
Last edited by bluebyrd35; Jul 16th, 2015 at 03:11 PM..
 
Motar
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post

Apparently according to the verses you quote.

I don't get that appearance at all, BB. Please explain.
 
JLM
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post


Rarely human children told not to touch obeys, that is how we are made. So we are supposedly punished by ? superior beings for doing exactly what we were designed to do. Of course without curiosity, how far above cattle would be we be??

Back in the day if we were told not to touch there was no problem because if we did it once, we would never even think about doing it a second time. Disobedience was a primary sin with life threatening consequences.
 
Motar
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Back in the day if we were told not to touch there was no problem because if we did it once, we would never even think about doing it a second time. Disobedience was a primary sin with life threatening consequences.

Yes, JLM. Sometimes we are content to trust the Teacher and other times we learn obedience through what we suffer. David experienced the rod and the staff of the Shepherd and discovered that both are trustworthy:

"Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me." (Psalm 23:4 NIV)
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

Yes, JLM. Sometimes we are content to trust the Teacher and other times we learn obedience through what we suffer. David experienced the rod and the staff of the Shepherd and discovered that both are trustworthy:

"Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me." (Psalm 23:4 NIV)

So, do you ever take responsibility for your life, or is everything just God's will?
 
Ludlow
#20
ain't that an ole Dean Martin Tune?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by LudlowView Post

ain't that an ole Dean Martin Tune?

Probably. Most things are. Him or Frank Sinatra.
 
bluebyrd35
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Back in the day if we were told not to touch there was no problem because if we did it once, we would never even think about doing it a second time. Disobedience was a primary sin with life threatening consequences.

You do see the difference between a spanking and the possibility of eternal suffering.? Even then some humans never learn from being punished but become even more badly behaved.

We were meant to remain stupid and blindly obey (according to the bible) However, the first couple ate of the tree of knowledge. They were supposedly thrown out of Eden for that offense and until Jesus came along, humanity had no way to redeem their status. Seems a bit over the top in my opinion.


But hey if that is your belief, fine. I do not accept the bible to be anything more than a story composed to explain the human story to very primitive people.
 
grainfedpraiboy
#23
.
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

God is punishing Honduras, GFPB? What is your understanding of "great"?

If the decline in America is attributed to its decaying spirituality............then how do you explain very spiritual places that never were great?
 
Motar
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by grainfedpraiboyView Post

.

If the decline in America is attributed to its decaying spirituality............then how do you explain very spiritual places that never were great?

How do you explain them, GFPB?
 
damngrumpy
#25
Many in academia are now listing religion as a mental disorder
The problem with most of us is we are collectively crazy
Who was it Lenin who said religion was opium for the mind.
I have no problem with people believing in God I do have a
problem when some start talking in tongues and rolling around
on the floor that is just weird
 
bluebyrd35
#26
Perhaps it has to do with teaching and learning moral responsibility. Religion in the beginning served that purpose. However, over time, it seems that too many teachers and rulers become aware of how easy it was to bend society to their will. Most religions use punishment and rewards of a type chosen when humanity was still very barbaric. As we were learning religion, we were also learning empathy. That is still the main reason so many human societal groups are turning away from organized religions. We feel regret, love, friendship, etc., so it becomes impossible to imagine a supreme being feeling anything less.

There is a synchronicity, and a connectivity in life that cannot be accounted for using 50/50 odds. There is always change, in individual beliefs just as there is in all else in this reality.

Perhaps the perception that America is decaying spiritually is because barbaric religious beliefs are being clung to more than elsewhere. The eye for an eye notion is definitely revenge rather than morally right.
Last edited by bluebyrd35; Jul 18th, 2015 at 10:01 AM..
 
Tecumsehsbones
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post

Perhaps it has to do with teaching and learning moral responsibility. Religion in the beginning served that purpose.

Did it? How do you know?

Quote:

However, over time, it seems that too many teachers and rulers become aware of how easy it was to bend society to their will. Most religions use punishment and rewards of a type chosen when humanity was still very barbaric.

Was?

Quote:

As we were learning religion, we were also learning empathy. That is still the main reason so many human societal groups are turning away from organized religions. We feel regret, love, friendship, etc., so it becomes impossible to imagine a supreme being feeling anything less.

Which, I guess, explains why said supreme being will torture you for all eternity if you jerk off. Because of regret, love, friendship and all.
 
Motar
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post

Religion in the beginning served that purpose. However, over time, it seems that too many teachers and rulers become aware of how easy it was to bend society to their will. Most religions use punishment and rewards of a type chosen when humanity was still very barbaric. As we were learning religion, we were also learning empathy. That is still the main reason so many human societal groups are turning away from organized religions.

religion (n.)
Anglo-French religiun: "state of life bound by monastic vows"; "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power"
Old French religion: "piety, devotion; religious community"
Latin religionem: "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness"; "monastic life"
relegere (Cicero): "go through again" (in reading or in thought)
religare (Servius, Lactantius, Augustine): "to bind fast"; "place an obligation on"; "bond between humans and gods"
religiens (unspecified origin): "careful"
English religion: "particular system of faith"; "recognition of and allegiance in manner of life (perceived as justly due) to a higher, unseen power or powers"
Online Etymology Dictionary (external - login to view)

The etymology of the term religion above illustrates how its meaning has evolved and expanded over time. From lifestyle to conduct, respect to worship, observance to service, and devotion to obligation, the term religion includes varying degrees of doctrinal and practical allegiance to a higher power. The absence of religion then would seem to indicate such allegiance to self.

"To hold, therefore, that there is no difference in matters of religion between forms that are unlike each other, and even contrary to each other, most clearly leads in the end to the rejection of all religion in both theory and practice. And this is the same thing as atheism, however it may differ from it in name." [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]
Online Etymology Dictionary (external - login to view)
 
Motar
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

religion (n.)
Anglo-French religiun: "state of life bound by monastic vows"; "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power"
Old French religion: "piety, devotion; religious community"
Latin religionem: "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness"; "monastic life"
relegere (Cicero): "go through again" (in reading or in thought)
religare (Servius, Lactantius, Augustine): "to bind fast"; "place an obligation on"; "bond between humans and gods"
religiens (unspecified origin): "careful"
English religion: "particular system of faith"; "recognition of and allegiance in manner of life (perceived as justly due) to a higher, unseen power or powers"
Online Etymology Dictionary (external - login to view)

The etymology of the term religion above illustrates how its meaning has evolved and expanded over time. From lifestyle to conduct, respect to worship, observance to service, and devotion to obligation, the term religion includes varying degrees of doctrinal and practical allegiance to a higher power. The absence of religion then would seem to indicate such allegiance to self.

"To hold, therefore, that there is no difference in matters of religion between forms that are unlike each other, and even contrary to each other, most clearly leads in the end to the rejection of all religion in both theory and practice. And this is the same thing as atheism, however it may differ from it in name." [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]
Online Etymology Dictionary (external - login to view)

Religion means different things to different people. Righteousness is another matter.
 
Ludlow
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by MotarView Post

Religion means different things to different people. Righteousness is another matter.

loved the righteous brothers, unchained melody a fine tune
 

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